Has any one an opinion on this article?

[sallydogsmum]

dailymail.co.uk/health/arti...

I've been taking ibuprofen for years at big doses. It could make sense but is it too simple an answer?

[Regalbirdy]

Hi,

Thanks for highlighting the article.

Being the Daily Mail, it was very tempting to take it with a pinch of salt. I feel that in my experience, they are not always known for being overly accurate with their reporting of facts.

However, because they have quoted Dr Alessio Fasano as saying it, it gives weight to the article for me. Wasn't he a contributor to the gluten summit last year?

I do think this is a possibility GF community should now be at least considering.

I had already decided some time ago not to take any sort of analgesic unless it was absolutely necessary to do so - ie. for a temperature, or for a very stubborn headache. This decision was helped along by the fact that many Ibuprofen tablets have lactose in them (and I don't fare that much better with the fillers in paracetamol).

That's my tuppence worth anyway...

[sallydogsmum]

Thanks, Regalbirdy........

My problem is a brittle rheumatoid arthritis issue that has required (very) large doses of both ibuprofen and paracetamol for years. I was always surprised I hadn't developed stomach issues such as ulcers given what I take and the time period I've taken them over, but perhaps this is how it's manifesting itself.

You're right about the usual medical articles in the DM, it's scarey what they think is accurate, but if you've heard of this man at least it means I can look further into it.

Cheers!

[Karen77 in reply to sallydogsmum]

I have RA and Gluten sensitivity. Also, full disclosure: I did not read the article. I understand that CD and RA, both autoimmune conditions, are present in people who also have gut dysbiosis (leaky gut). NSAIDs, including ibuprofen damage the stomach lining (gut) whether or not you get associated stomach pains, ulcers, etc. I've got pneumonia right now and took one extra strength Tylenol to reduce my fever and the next day my RA was more active in my left hand - one little pill made an obvious negative impact on my RA symptoms! For more info, I recommend The Paleo Approach by Sarah Ballantyne, PhD. The book is extremely comprehensive in understanding how the immune system works and causes of disfunction/autoimmunity.

[sallydogsmum in reply to Karen77]

I downloaded her book and I am following her advice, it's helped the bowel issues but has had no impact on RA/joint pain. Removing nightshades from my diet had helped, but boy do I miss tomatoes and chillies! again. no impact on anything except tummy, no increase in energy, no loss of fatigue.......

I've had RA for 30 years and CD for 3 (well, knowingly for 3, probably more). I take really large doses of ibuprofen and not once has any medic EVER said it might cause problems. I presume because I tolerate it well, i.e no stomach pain/bleeding. I've now got to find an alternative anti inflammatory. I hope to start some more intensive treatment soon, perhaps then I could stop taking these drugs..

Thanks for your comments, hope the pneumonia goes soon.

[Karen77 in reply to sallydogsmum]

Thanks! Has your inflammation/pain abated any? I'm still taking meloxicam (15 mg) daily, and definitely need it right now. I'm hoping the healing diet will get me to a point where I can taper off so I can gradually get down to OTC meds, like Aleve, or nothing at all (I was able to dutch the NSAIDs altogether for 10 months last year). I know a woman with RA who follows this diet but still takes one Aleve daily - phoenixhelix.com. It's about doing the least harm, while enjoying the best quality of life, I think!

[sallydogsmum in reply to Karen77]

At the moment it's all pretty unstable. I'm on steroids which are doing what they should, but they don't stop the pain, hence the worry about the ibuprofen!!!!!!!!! I'm hoping to start Rituximab soon, but have to get confirmation of funding through the NHS.

I'll keep going with the paleo diet, but I think I'll re-read the book (well some of it, it is looooooooooonnnnnggggggg) and get myself back on track. I miss things like tomatoes so 'treated' myself to baked beans at the weekend. Who'd have thought that modified corn starch could cause such a problem?? Or was it the tomatoes?? Still, you learn things every day.

Keep well, and keep resting!

[Karen77 in reply to sallydogsmum]

I had two pieces of dark chocolate last night. Sooo good! No new pain this morning, but I think one of my joints is more swollen. Still, it's not a great life if your tastebuds get no joy! (I don't miss breads or cakes though!) Good luck to you! (And you're right - it is a big book!)

[tmoxon]

Hi I don't really know anything about this article but I haven't taken ibroprofen since diagnosis simply because I was aware that it can damage your stomach, as our stomachs are already damaged it does make sense to stay away from other things which might make it worse.

Although the Daily Mail hasn't got the best reputation in the world for honesty they do seem to regularly highlight CD which in my opinion is a good thing. This was published the other day

dailymail.co.uk/health/arti...

[sallydogsmum in reply to tmoxon]

I hope that now they know there is a definite link with CD and other autoimmune diseases that they inform people about such things. My issue is one of shutting the door after the horse has bolted. Too much ibuprofen for too many years. It might not have caused the CD, but it won't have helped.

Well, at least I know now, and can move forward.

[pretender in reply to sallydogsmum]

I hope you are reporting on the Yellow Card any reactions to medicines.

[sallydogsmum in reply to pretender]

I hadn't even thought about it. Does it include reporting known side effects? I thought it was for more dangerous 'reactions' as such, allergic type ones (I'm losing my thread here!).

[pretender in reply to sallydogsmum]

Reactions to medications need to be reported so that data is gathered about a product, as the Gluten Free foods are classed as medication I reported it and was directed to the Food Standards Agency.

[sallydogsmum]

Wow, I hadn't seen that article. Poor chap. Makes me feel glad things aren't that bad.

[Hidden]

Hi Sallydofsmum, Thanks for showing us this it is very interesting and I'd check this article out that was in the independent:

independent.co.uk/life-styl...

Ibuprofen NSAID's are known to cause inflammation of the gut and after reading this article I imagine it is better to take them after food, my son has warned me about taking ibuprofen before going on a bike ride so it is interesting what they say about taking them after exercise.

Another thing about them is that if you suffer an injury your body needs inflammation to help it heal so by taking NSAID's they may well reduce the pain but they make the healing process take longer.

What you have to realise is that all medications have side effects and it is learning to limit these so like I said before I'd think they were safer if taken with meals rather than on an empty stomach and if you are worried about them then speak to your GP

And I'd read this:

nhs.uk/Conditions/Painkille...

[sallydogsmum in reply to Hidden]

Hi Jerry

I've read the two links. I wish I hadn't. I knew of the well known risks of most of the NSAIDs, and I can't tolerate most of them, that's why I've had years of high dose ibuprofen.

If the link is there, and ibuprofen does cause problems with CD, does it mean every time I take a dose it's the equivalent of a gluten contamination? I can't stop taking them (I'm already on steroids and they don't act as a pain killer) but where do i go??

Oh dear..........I need to see my consultant...........

[Hidden in reply to sallydogsmum]

Hi again, firstly I'm sorry if I've increased your anxiety that was not my intention, I'm a great believer in 'us' the consumer being aware of exactly what we are consuming.

Now in answer to your question is taking ibuprofen like a dose of gluten and the answer is emphatically NO. The point the article is trying to make is that ibuprofen can cause leaky gut especially in some coeliac.

I am aware of med's as I suffer bouts of microscopic colitis which means my colon bleeds sometimes and I have learnt to live with it and deal with it by diet and I avoid many med's as I'm aware of their side effects.

Now I know of others with RA and they take opiate pain killers which are addictive but are safer on the stomach so I'd chat to your consultant/GP about paracetamol and codeine and as you're going to have to take them, not worry about dependency. I also think you'd be surprised if you knew how many members of GFG take codeine.

Please see:

nhs.uk/conditions/rheumatoi...

Lastly I would try not worry because as you say you have never suffered from ulcers or had apparent inflammation issues and you've been prescribed them by your consultant.

Again I am very sorry for having alarmed you and I wish you the best with this,

Jerry

[sallydogsmum in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Jerry, I know you weren't trying to worry me! It's all a little overwhelming at times when you have several things going on at once, and although the diseases are not life threatening, they are life altering. The CD is the most annoying as it's almost impossible to lead a normal life now: no eating out, no eating conveniently, no alcohol, no take-away etc etc.

Once again, thanks for your comment!!

[Regalbirdy in reply to sallydogsmum]

Yes, I also really miss the junk food and the takeaways!

I do still eat out though - thanks to my local Pizza Express and some very understanding friends who have to eat pizza a lot more often!

[sallydogsmum in reply to Regalbirdy]

I can't do flour, sad to say. i do have one friend who understands as her daughter has CD, and she's a wonderful cook too, which makes it all the better!! One good thing about it all is that both me and hubby have turned into really good cooks, it's amazing how inventive you can become (and luckily we like veg).

[pretender in reply to sallydogsmum]

Asda do a self raising flour blend, ingredients are :- Rice flour(46%), Potato starch(18%), Tapioca starch, Maize flour(10%) Buckwheat flour(2.5%),Rising agents(Calcium Phosphate, Sodium Bicarbonate), Stabiliser(Xanthan Gum).

Makes a great rhubarb crumble

[Hidden in reply to pretender]

I know other coeliac who use Asda flour but it will only be codex gluten free and below 20ppm I'd have thought. Also the gum is it xanthan?

As for rhubarb crumble I love rhubarb crumble!

[pretender in reply to Hidden]

As can be seen by the ingredient list there is nothing from a gluten source as taken from the packet. So ZERO gluten unless the (keys to close together)Xanthan gum is grown on wheat where there maybe a cross over (FSA).

[Hidden in reply to pretender]

I've never heard of zanthan gum and it does not come up on a google search so that's why I asked. As I know about xanthan gum and that it can be from a mould on wheat so I was curious about this zanthan gum.

I also thought that supermarket own brands were made by the big companies like Prewitts who make many oat flour super market own brand biscuits and I thought that Doves Farm were the major independent millers supplying own brand speciality flours in the UK to super markets own brands and assumed it was xanthan gum.

I have had cakes made with Asda flour and they are really nice but I haven't bought any yet so I was just curious.

[pretender in reply to Hidden]

With big fingers one can hit the wrong keys as can be seen and also this laptop produces double letters.

Xanthan Gum is actually a bacteria that is grown on different mediums.

As stated previously I do not go by the "GF" status but by ingredients, I have been in contact with Dove's who confirm testing up to 20ppm (to much for me) and those I am unsure of are researched for both my conditions.

By the way Jerry the Asda flour is labelled as Free from GLUTEN which the ingredients reflect and endorsed by CUK-M-138

[Karen77 in reply to sallydogsmum]

Try autoimmune-paleo.com and phoenixhelix.com for loads of recipes that taste much better than restaurant food and will help you to heal your tummy and reduce your RA symptoms.

[sallydogsmum in reply to Karen77]

Thanks for the link. The cauliflower coconut curry looks ....yummy. Off to buy cauliflower !!

[pretender in reply to sallydogsmum]

Enjoy your cauliflower I had some with my roast dinner while out in Broadstairs knowing that it will trigger my allergy, it was tasty

[Penel in reply to sallydogsmum]

Check out your local Indian for a take-away, they traditionally use naturally gluten free chick pea flour, usually the only thing to avoid is the naan bread.

Eating out has become much easier over the years, more and more places are catering for coeliacs. It does take time to adjust to such a big change, just hang in there!

[sallydogsmum in reply to Penel]

I'm hanging, I'm hanging!!!! ;-))

[pretender in reply to sallydogsmum]

Quote "The CD is the most annoying as it's almost impossible to lead a normal life now: no eating out, no eating conveniently, no alcohol, no take-away etc etc. "

I lead a normal a life as possible, I eat out as often as possible, I drink alcohol and only suffer from grain alcohol, I have take-aways, not Chinese, I go on holidays and live as much like the natives as possible.

It is not known why Coeliac is triggered once you know what affects you then you avoid it and get on with life. At the age of 6 I was diagnosed as a Coeliac and avoided all wheat products, at the age of 13 I was weaned back onto normal foods with very few problems, at the age of 58 I was again diagnosed with CD following 5 X chemical poisoning, the two cannot be connected because the trigger for CD is unknown and no-one can say why the remission for 45 years. I do not touch anything from a gluten source, dairy products or any foods producing formaldehyde which includes medications.

My diet is restrictive but has plenty of veriety.

[sallydogsmum in reply to pretender]

It does make me sound as though I've locked myself in a cupboard, but I really haven't!! I can't eat out simply because there is so much contamination about. I may not eat the gluten, but if it's in the restaurant it's an issue for me (I was once contaminated by drinking a glass of water at a friends house as they hadn't washed the glass properly).

I have a problem with wine if it's finished with wheat (as some are), and all grain based alcohols, soft drinks that have E150d or glucose fructose syrup in them.

My CD trigger could be one of many things. I have autoimmune issues, with RA from the age of 23 then many other autoimmune things over the years. CD is the latest in a list. Was it triggered because of the RA, the excessive use of non-steroidal drugs (or steroids, or long term RA drugs), the change in wheat over the years or a personal over indulgence in Italian flour in the past??

We're all different, that's what makes this site so good, we can all learn through others experience. I'll never eat out happily again: for me it's not worth it. I'm pleased you can though

[pretender in reply to sallydogsmum]

I find that there are many Coeliac's on a "strict gluten free diet" yes! they can eat up to 20ppm of gluten per kilo finished product and have continued ill health, They never blame the diet!

It is my 65th birthday next month and I am off out to dinner at the "Rocksalt Restaurant" in Folkestone, they are fully aware of what affects a Coeliac. This followed the following week by a meal at Gatwick then a week in Tunisia, I only expect to be ill with the formaldehyde allergy. One bad experience should not make you a hermit.

[sallydogsmum in reply to pretender]

Happy birthday for next week. Have a lovely holiday too. Envy you the lovely sunshine, don't envy you a meal at Gatwick!!

BTW not a hermit as at the moment looking out onto the Italian countryside..............bliss......

[pretender in reply to sallydogsmum]

Eaten many times at Gatwick without any problems, the good old trusty Jacket potato & cheese never fails, fresh ground coffee keeps the allergy at bay. Not done Italy yet, maybe one day, hope your enjoying yourself and chilling out.

[sallydogsmum in reply to pretender]

Chilling is the right word....brrrrrrrrrrr!! Where's the sun?? Hope you'll be warmer in Tunisia.

[pretender in reply to sallydogsmum]

The sun is out in my garden this morning. Tunisia will be about 26c I will have trouble with smokers around the pool and deciding on what I can eat with both conditions. Yes I will be taking a fleece as I am not happy with the cold.Enjoy your holiday

[poing]

"It could make sense but is it too simple an answer?"

Yes it is too simple. It's just one of many contributing factors to digestive problems.

I hardly ever take ibuprofen, and yet I have gluten sensitivity. I think it could be at least two years since I had any, and before that probably about 20!

[weee]

wow..very interesting. I never take NSAiDs as they make me feel nauseous. However I persevered for a week when I whiplashed my neck about 12 years ago.. hmm I was diagnosed with coeliac 11 years ago..Coincidence?? . I know they are also pretty toxic to the kidneys...

[FionaGFG Administrator]

Just to remind everyone that prescription meds i.e. NSAIDs like Naproxen & Diclofenic are gluten free. Over the counter meds like Nurofen can be checked with the pharmacist. To prevent any stomach damage GPs can prescribe stomach protecters that reduce acid levels - useful if you're on a long course of NSAIDs. I have been taking NSAIDs for many years for gynae & lower back pain & touch wood have never ever had gluten like symptoms from them. As Jerry says for most people taking them after lining the stomach with food is fine. And my endoscopies have showed no stomach damage. Some people with some conditions are sensitive to stomach bleeding & ulcers from NSAIDs & Coedine. If concerned see & discuss this with your GP. Don't believe all the scare mongering you read in the Daily Mail. Much better to listen to the Radio 4 Health Programme. Packed with up to date info & good debate ; )

[sallydogsmum]

Thanks Fiona!

I'm seeing my consultant soon and I'll have a chat with him. I have tried Diclofenic in the past, I can't tolerate it at all. Naproxen make me sleepy, and I save it for bouts of severe sciatica. It's not the contamination with gluten that made me worry, it was the long term damage to the stomach/intestines which open you up to things like coeliac disease. It's too late now - obviously - as the damage is done and whether it was caused by excessive amounts of ibuprofen or simply another autoimmune hiccup I'll never know.

You're right about the DM.............time to re tune the radio from 2 and onto 4 ;))