Simple or Complex Carbs.

[banku007]

Which Carbs are good for health Simple or Complex and source of Good carbs,Please? Thanks all.

[alwaysoptimistic]

Please see,if this helps: healthunlocked.com/diabetes...

[suramo Star]

@Banku007

you have to learn gi and gl of food. Total carbs less than 100g per day. Complex carbs are better.

[banku007 in reply to suramo]

suramo

Thanks.

[suramo Star]

@Anup

yes. But simple carbs spikes bs level. Since we are poor at clearing carbs the detrimental level of bs remains for a long time. I have found that i can clear 4mg carbs / 100ml / hour. So if my bs is 160 now and i don't eat anything after 10hours my bs will reach 120. Everybody can find out. Measure bs just before going to sleep and again on waking up in the morning. That will tell you your bs clearance rate.

I have kept a watch on my bs levels during day time also and found my clearance rate almost same.

[suramo Star]

Hidden

Heavy wait and for that matter whichever exercise that demand muscular activity clears glucose from the blood because glucose and ketones are the main fuel used by muscles. Glycogen is a depot which supply glucose instantly. So glucose is cleared more during that period.

Well if you are an athlete or doing muscle building exercise your bmr increases that is even at rest you consume more energy. Obviously the fuel is glucose. In such cases muscles are well developed and clear glucose from blood without the much help of insulin. In simple terms the porosity of muscles for glucose increases and that don't require insulin. So if you developed your muscles you can control your bs far better. Then your basic glucose clearance is more. My basis clearance rate i can increase if i develop my muscles like an athlete or a body builder.

[suramo Star]

Hidden

@Anup

The amount of insulin depends on ir. More the ir more the insulin required to push glucose inside the cells.

[suramo Star]

Hidden

I don't know what exactly upto you are but let me put certain facts here.

1) ketones are better fuel than glucose.

2) our body tissues can utilize both glucose and ketones with equal efficiency.

3) till glucose is available ketones are not utilized as fuel.

4) When exposed to hypoxia, intact mice, with elevated blood ketones, live longer than mice with normal blood ketones.

"The point is that it is only intense activity that demands carbohydrate for fuel, since it is the only macro-nutrient that can be used in the absence of oxygen. When the body has time to provide oxygen, the preferred energy source is fat." Both glucose and ketones can be utilized in the presence of oxygen. Only the diet determines if glucose will be available.

"The ingested, natural food intake varies, but the gut works to provide a similar end, macro-nutrient ratio". I'm not sure that is true.

[suramo Star]

@Anup

It's a complex calculation about insulin and carbs. Insulin production, its life existence In the blood and action all need to be calculated. It's not simple physics. But i'm not sure that is important, how much insulin to clear carbs. How fast can carbs be cleared and what is one's capacity to do is more important. lower the insulin better the control of D.

Type 1is different from type 2. So what you say i agree.

There are two kinds of calories. 1) instant for utilisation and storage in mitochondrias - the powerhouse of cells. 2) stored energy. Only the stored energy causes weight gain because i think fat is the only form to store such energy. Imho

[suramo Star]

@Anup

What about SG. How would have he been "cured " ? Contrary to what we believe.

[cure Administrator]

@anup ji look a his HDL levels also....

I think we must look many other things in his report...

His HDL is most wonderful... and TG/HDL is indicator for IR....

and IR is major cause of T2

[suramo Star in reply to cure]

cure

@Anup

Et al. Our lipid profile had been introduced due to the understanding that the fats are the villain for cardiovascular accidents. But there are many who have good lipid profile despite bad bs control. and they have suffered from cv accidents. So i'm really losing interest in lipids now. I'm not saying that one should not get it done but there should be more research on fats if really they are responsible. I exclude the people with familial hyperlipidemia in whom early deaths due to cv accidents have occurred.

[cure Administrator in reply to suramo]

Bhai suramo after getting my current lipid reports I was just thinking...

TC= HDL+LDL+1/5th TG

so ideally HDL=60+LDL=100+(20% of TG say 80=16) =176

And the cap of 170 for total cholesterol...

Isn't that absurd???

[shrisamarth Volunteer in reply to cure]

TC= HDL+LDL+1/5th TG

When LDL is directly measured then you can not calculate this way.

Thyrocare measures LDL directly.

[suramo Star in reply to shrisamarth]

shrisamarth

It's about vldl. Presently vldl = 1/5 tg.

[suramo Star in reply to cure]

cure

This is all sounds illogical to me. There should be direct measurements. I'm not convinced and comfortable with lipid theory.

[cure Administrator]

of coz...those 5 readings will be the most important things to come to final conclusion....

But its amazing... and guess he is on normal diet now...

[cure Administrator]

and Hba1c? what do u think about his Hba1c??

[cure Administrator]

Guess he is not checking Hba1c regularly....

but sure Hba1c will throw much light on his cure..

However his case is most interesting...

and I guess there are few others on this forum who are consuming carbs more than 100 Gms per day in form of long wheat..

[suramo Star]

@Anup

yes but rather than outrightly rejecting i'd want such people to Be investigated scientifically. But i really feel so sorry that our medical system is not organized.

Now a days whenever i measure my pp i do at 1 hr.

[cure Administrator in reply to suramo]

suramo some other forum member told me last Hba1c of mr ShooterGeorge was 5 ....

May be he will be able to tell us current Hba1c...

If it is around 5 then yes... we can say he is really cured..

[suramo Star]

@Anup

cure

We need to find many answers regarding t2d. I'm yet to understand t2d fully well.

1) it's caused by IR. Maturity onset. Comes late in the life after 40. What causes ir ? Genes, bad habits, stress and what not or what ? if genes there are many who develop D being the first in the generations. What causes gene dysfunction ?

2) bcf 🐒🐒🐒🐒. T2d is the disease of hyperinsulinemia and the key to reverse it is to keep insulin levels low. So beta cells are fine but then we call the condition to be due to beta cell dysfunction !!🐒🐒🐒.

3) still there are SU drugs which whip beta cells to put out more insulin and the drugs work !!🐒🐒🐒. So where is IR ? Metformin acts by inhibiting insulin destruction. There are then other drugs like pioglitazone which act by increasing insulin sensitivity.

4) so now we think both IR and BCF are responsible. How come that both come together ? Or they don't ? I mean there are multiple questions. We are still fumbling in dark as far as aetiopathogenesis is concerned. If these puzzles get solved perhaps we will be able to conquer D

5) fine by low carb diet we can control bs but what makes lchf diet to reverse D ? Weight loss ? Or other bodily changes ? Which ?

So we may not accept that SG has been cured depending on our present understanding but i'd like his and such cases to be investigated thoroughly. Sorry. We have no system. Though we have reached Mars we are still backward. On the ground we have not been able to create a strong effective medical system.

[suramo Star]

@Anup

The doctors have now started to learn. Insulin levels are recommended more frequently.

But the beta cells respond to ir by hyperinsulinemia. Su drugs work means beta cells have insulin with them. What makes them not to release that insulin without the help of su drugs? What inhibit enough response by beta cells ? Why don't they release insulin by their own when they already respond to su drugs by releasing more insulin? And how do su drugs overcome ir which already high insuin level can't ? We need to understand.

[suramo Star]

@anup

True.

1) What makes that loss of capacity ? Dysfunction ? How ? Genes ?

2) "there's simply not enough endogenous insulin."

Su drugs act by "whipping " to release ( not to produce ) insulin. So no question of not enough insulin. Or even if su drugs push beta cells to manufacture / produce more insulin what makes beta cells not to do so by their own although they respond by hyperinsulinemia and they themselves are capable of manfacturing more insulin ?

[cure Administrator]

wow @anup suramo bhai wonderful discussion....

keep it on.... we are learning lot....

[suramo Star]

@Anup

"What causes beta cells loss?

Gradually increasing blood sugar levels and staying elevated for a long time. "

Is it the hen or egg first ? I think first conked off response by beta cells that elevates bs level. Probably due to genetic cause. Any cause effect should be reproducible. There are many diseases like cortisol secreting tumours, growth hormone tumors where there are very high bs levels but pancreatic - bc function doesn't deteriorate or say beta cells don't die.

Well adaptation is a physiological condition without which our lives would have become miserable. If there is some knocking our brain pays attention for some time but once it finds the knocking harmless it starts ignoring. But if the intensity changes or say if there is a blast our brain would become alert. That is how people living beside railway track can have sound sleep but we can't. But if there is an accident these people would wake up. Same with smell and taste. The most important application of this phenomenon is in vision. If our brain were not ignoring photo signals we would not have undisturbed vision. Many people who undergo cataractomy suffer from photophobia for some time because the cataract stops the light from falling onto retina. Removal of a cataract allows rays to stimulate the retina. Gradually our brain relearns to ignore harmless photo stimulation.

Analogy is not working here imho. Because disturbed bs control is not harmless and brain has to pay attention. Pain sensations have no adaptation because pain indicates some injury.