Why people in this forum don't care or dare to share their knowledge about the basic "What is dm2", individual perception?

I know that many of the members are very well read,highly qualified and exceptionally intelligent,still some thing is missing.There are many who are or were on the top in their respective fields ,they fully understand that it the foundation which is the most important part of any building,then why jump to super structure,which can be modified in different ways.Every one very clearly knows that by ignoring foundation,you can not expect any building to be stable.This also stands true for diabetes or for that matter everything.

The first step towards reaching a solution is to identify the problems.

I know we Indians are all drawing room debaters and when it comes to face an audience we are very shy and retract in a corner.

The whole purpose of exercise was only to bring out each ones perception about the disease with their own personal experience and I am sure no amount of web references will even begin to match.It will be our own by our own people.Just imagine the vast plethora of varied experience.Let thousand flowers bloom.

I would have been delighted if some one wrote that "Diebetes is a disease in which sugar in blood remains elevated.This raised bs causes many symptoms and over a period of time damages kidney,eyes,nerve tissues and is associated with heart and brain problems.It would have been a bonus if some one added what they felt prior to being diagnosed as a diabetic.

I will not make it long and end by quoting a couple of lines from a hindi film from bygone days Naya Daur,

Sathi hath badhana,ek Akela thakk jayega mil ker hath badhana.

Thanks every body.

132 Replies

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  • we all wait for free-med. most of us just follow him.

  • :) India is known to have large crowds of followers.

  • I just hope he does not drive Babaji out of business. Babji makes you stand on yr head and fast. Freemed lets us feast.

  • So you are a cult follower!

  • No. I enjoy yr writings more. I just figured out a mediterranean dish out of Khapli Gehun. A very healthy dish mainly raw, extra virgin olive oil and cracked toasted gehun- I wanted to beat Maggi so it is a one minute dish. The supply of Khapli gehun has run out - no new crop here. My swimming pool is likely to start soon. good for all kind of diets.

  • Recently I got a little khapli gehun from Kerala.Though I had written about it, but never tasted.It is really very appetising and no hunger for a long time.Thanks for motivating me.

  • be careful.

  • Can you please elaborate a little.

  • Be careful of any cults. Listen to everyone but follow yr own judgement. God made everyone special and different.

  • Now it my turn to put a caution mark.Be very careful of selection of words.It can be mis interpreted.

  • like?

  • Be careful, for what ? Is it for the motivation ?

  • I still fail to get it.

  • You are absolutely right. First it was anup, then rusticgye and now medfree. May God bless them.

  • You are absolutely right

  • I wonder if the medical practitioners can totally rule out neurological/ psychological reasons? If yoga and even homeopathy has placebo effect level (percentage) outcomes, could psychology or BELIEF have some minor role to play? efar52@gmail.com [I reckon I may have come up with a speculative proposition]

  • Yoga has good effects. That's why you have Bikram Yoga patented postures in America if i recall correctly. :D :D

    So they are offering patents to postures also. And the current patent laws are such that anything with prior art but not patented can also be patented by anyone having the resources to go through the Patent Troll's Office. Not even a working prototype is needed. maybe this was formulated to protect interests of Apple and other such patent trolls.

  • Stress and strain are proven psychological aspect in causation and maintainance of DM .

  • What is your problem? You think members don't educate you enough? Why should they? They don't owe it to you. Google and you will get all the answers on diabetes. You have to take pains to gain buddy. There us nothing called free ride.

  • You are right ,no body owes any thing to me, NEITHER I owe anything to any body,BUT every one here owes to this forum and this platform.All are duty and honour bound to nurture it.

    I have seen many bullies and big mouthed,boosting of many things,but when it came to real things ,they start looking side.ways.

  • Members in this group are more than forthcoming with cures, exprriences and relevant dara on Diabetes. This is even after submitting half baked questions without details on age, hb1ac, diet and exercise regime, members have taken care to answer best of their knowledge and experience. You can't expect more for free!

  • I can't agree with you more.I may also have contributed here and there.But it is besides the point.

    From questions that are or were put I suspected that many of them are quite ignorant about diabetes.So it was my endeavour with the help of fellow members,who are quite know legible,to prepare basics as well as details about various aspects of diabetes and Put in a single place in this forum to act as reference point for any one to see.

    No diabetic forum has done this,but they are not blessed with such brilliant persons as this forum.It stands in a unique position.My request to all members to make it unparalleled .

    Thank you.

  • Patliputra,

    Boss, I have absolute admiration for your advocacy of "thinking for oneself" and laud your defence of skepticism. Therefore, it is all the more difficult for me to understand this new fancy of yours :-)

    Indeed, let a thousand flowers bloom :-)

    Cheers, Boss. Live and let live :-)

  • Dear,why call me boss,I am just an ordinary person and your fellow passenger on the boat called diabetes.

    For my skepticism and fancy please comment on my tomorrow's post.

    Thanks for appreciating at least theoretically.

  • Patliputra,

    "Boss" is just a style of speaking here in Bombay. Some use "bhai saab", some use "yaar", some freaks like me call everyone "boss" :-)

    Agreed we are fellow passengers.

    I do look forward to your post.

    Cheers, Patliputra.

  • I totally agree with everexotic.

  • Hey,

    the other day i even said that someone should start a retreat center for diabetics and charge 10-15k for a 1 week course on practically showing how to reduce sugar though LCHF without drugs -- at least in 60% of cases. Someone from Delhi on this forum is thinking on those lines :)

  • R U the one ? You can get the LCHF patented.

  • Well I hate Patents! They are biggest curse. I am not from Delhi. America is more of patent Centric Nation and many European counties are now following suit. Look at this ugly face of patent --

    globalresearch.ca/nestle-is...

  • Please wait for my coming post on LCHF .

  • The reason I am skeptical is that first time I reversed readings within three weeks without any diabetic medicine whatsoever and for three months the reversal was monitored and confirmed. Second time it came in pre diabetes range within 4 or 6 weeks but I did not monitor. This year, after a quick drop in five days, my HBA1C has been coming down at an average of 0.175% per week (it is down from 11.6% to 7.2% and now I often get 120 within four hours a meal). Since I did not take any medicine to manage blood glucose, the only thing I can share is my diet. Tell me and I will email it to you: efar52@gmail.com...

  • Dear sir can u please email your diet plan to me, my e mail address is gill.ks55@gmail .com.

    Regards

  • Just emailed you. Cheers

  • Gillkashmirsingh: I re-emailed it to you a few hours ago. Since I used another ID, it either went into your spam or I erred in copying the address. Now I have emailed from the id to which you reported non-delivery. Sorry and thanks.

  • Please email me ur diet plan. My email id is augustine_goa@yahoo.com

  • His diet plans are based on 8km walking per day. SO have 2 hrs spare time for that also and aim for A1C less than 5.7

  • 8 km walking per day ?? Count me out, then :-)

    I'll manage with controlling carbs, thank you very much :-)

  • type2: I only increased it to 8 kilometers from 5 after I got 11.6%.

  • What if it went up to 15.8% ? Would you increase it to 14 kms ? Just kidding, Boss.

    To each their own. Whatever works, works :-)

  • Every additional 100 grams carb over LCHF will need 10Km/day walking to get the numbers in safe range.That's for a T2 diabetic like me. For diabetic with a still longer history this could be more. Not applicable to T1.

    So i started controlling carbs intake. The day I know it has been more i just stroll for 20 minutes after meals.

  • I'd prefer to keep my carb intake strictly in control. It makes sense to me & as far as I am concerned, it works. Except for the "night phenomenon" of course.

  • What is this "night phenomenon "

  • phlaunt.com/diabetes

    Described adequately there.

  • The correct term is "dawn phenomenon".

  • I would ignore DP as long as A1C falls < 5.7

  • A1C <5.7 or A1C > 5.7

    My latest A1C was 6.0

    Of ALL the guys/gals on this board, I find you to be the BEST. By far. Cheers !!

  • OK, I got it. I think you meant ignore DP as long as A1C is less than 5.7. But my A1C just inched above that level.

  • Try to eat an apple at bed time and watch for the result.

  • Thanks, Patliputra. I'll do it tonight itself. I'll report in a day or two. Thanks again, much obliged.

  • Then, keeping everything else unchanged go for a 20-30 min early morning walk as soon as you get up.

  • Medfree,

    Is it really advisable to exercise, however mildly, when ones blood sugar is high ? Today, at 6.20am, I clocked 144 on Accu Chek.

    Thanks for your help.

  • Unless it touches 200 you can.

    Thanks

  • OK, I'll start on the treadmill tomorrow then. I'll take a test after I finish walking on the treadmill. Thanks.

  • Great. Stay hydrated.

    My experience with open air walking has been as follows:

    (1) Without any walking for almost a year now my meter reads around 110 for FBS whenever i do check.

    (2) With around 30 minutes of walking earlier the FBS used to be around 90 by meter. If i pushed to 40-50min it used to be around 80.

    I will start walking if my A1C creeps up.

    Keep us posted.

  • This is what I am going to do tonight and tomorrow morning.

    Before sleeping tonight at say 10 pm I will eat an apple, as Patliputra suggests. When I wake up at 6am, I will test. Then I will walk for 15/20 mins and then test again.

    I'll post the results tomorrow.

    I will gradually increase the walking to 30 mins and then only if required to 45 mins.

    Thanks and cheers.

  • Start with 3KM on the treadmill and bump it up gradually.

  • Right. Thanks, medfree.

  • Should I eat a FULL apple or just half of it ? I don't even eat a FULL apple for breakfast.

  • Depends on size.Please eat only as much as you can.

  • I was worried about the carbs that an apple has. I think half an apple should be adequate for me. But, I will start after my insulin test on Wednesday.

    Thanks, Patliputra and best regards.

  • May I put a word of caution here! I relate my personal experience.It was yr.2006-7.I was in USA at that time for several months.So I joined a jim and started on treadmill.Within a week or so I was doing it about 40 mins.After that I did 10 different varieties of press.By the end of two months, I felt that I am unable to that much as when I started. When I came back after a few months got first heart attack followed by cabg.So please be care ful.

  • CoQ10 and Alpha Lipoic Acid supplementation helps in ATP, and also protects the heart and increase the ability to use oxygen and exercise more.

  • What dosage of CoQ10 & Alpha Lipoic Acid ? Thank you.

  • 100mg Coq10 to start with once a day.

    Alpha Lipoic Acid only if not a hypothyroid patient: 300mg once a day to begin with. ALA is said to control blood sugar too. Add a multivitamin like supradyn to take care of leaching of certain vitamin due to ALA.

  • For CoQ 10 ---100 mg and

    Alpha Lipoic Acid---300mg,

    would Vista Nutritions brand be OK ? I can buy them on e-bay. What dosage for Supradyn ? Is Becosules Z as effective ? Thanks.

  • I am using Zenith brand as they are cheaper and that's what I have been using for all supplements -- ALA/CoQ10/AstaXanthin etc. I buy from mynutramart.com

    Supradyn 1/day. Becosules should also be fine if it has bioton, as that's what gets leached because of ALA.

  • Thanks, medfree. Shall buy and start on all 3. Thanks again.

  • Ordered the dope today :-) Got a discount of 25% on mynutramart.com. Hope to receive it in the next few days.

    Btw, with a fasting insulin level of 21.9 & a fasting blood sugar level of 140, how is the IR calculated ? Thanks for any help.

  • You can check it over here.

    gihep.com/calculators/other...

  • Thanks, shrisamarth. That was most helpful.

    Assuming an average fasting blood sugar level of approx 126 on One Touch & a fasting insulin level of 21.9 (Metropolis Labs), my IR is 6.81. This means I have severe insulin resistance.

    Point now is what to do about it. Any reading links would be welcome. I am now going to read Dr. Attria.

    Thanks again, guys, much obliged.

  • Thanks, Patliputra. At the first sign of stress, I'll stop immediately. Since, I haven't really exercised, I know I have to begin very slowly. No "macho-giri" for me :-) I'll err on the side of caution.

    Thanks again. Best regards.

  • Whatever you are doing is post dawn phenomenon. So if you are benefited in anyway your BS will decrease after your blood sugar has risen to a certain level. The point is that you have look for if you can stop the DP. Have you checked your fasting insulin level? It can indicate whether you are insulin resistant or insulin deficient in the morning.

    If by all efforts you are unable to control DP then you may need long acting insulin dose.

    healthcentral.com/diabetes/...

  • On the dot, shrisamarth. I was thinking exactly the same.

    How does one test ones "fasting insulin levels " ? Is it the same as what I have been doing ? That is, after dinner not eating for approx 10/12 hrs, then testing blood sugar levels ? My testing shows BS levels between 110 & 150, never lower, very rarely higher.

    Awaiting your reply. Thanks.

  • Insulin test is a lab test. You can correlate that result with your sugar level. This conclusion is as a guideline. If fasting insulin levels are low and FBS is also under limit then you are not insulin resistant. ( In my case, my fBS is mostly under 90 I had tested my insulin level six months back, it was 2.) Baseline insulin level of <10 with normal BS level indicates no insulin resistance.

    articles.mercola.com/sites/...

  • Thanks very much, shrisamarth. Have called up the lab and fixed up a test for 7.30am Wednesday, 7/5/14 morning. Shall get the lab report by e-mail 7th evening & shall then post.

    Am holding out on all other experiments till then. That is, no apples, no exercise till then.

    However, have tested my treadmill. Its in great shape :-)

    Thanks again, shrisamarth, medfree, Patliputra. Cheers !!

  • Hi shrisamarth,

    The results have just come in and are showing 21.9 where the range is 2 to 25 for fasting insulin serum by CMIA. In other words, the result is normal, but nowhere close to under 10, as you mentioned. The lab is Metropolis. What do I make of this ? Keenly awaiting your reply. Thanks.

  • Compute your IR through HOMA 2 calculator.

    dtu.ox.ac.uk/Homacalculator...

    Then check this article by Dr Peter Attia on changes in his IR, and has a note on his Insulin levels PPBS and FBS as he switched from normal to near ketogenic diet

    eatingacademy.com/how-low-c...

  • Sorry, medfree, I just cannot understand the calculator properly. My fasting blood sugar is 140. My fasting insulin is 21.9. So is the IR calculated like this :- (20x21.9) (140-3.5).

    That equals 3.21. Is that good, bad or not so bad ? Thanks for any help. Much obliged. I will read Dr. Attia's article tomorrow. Thanks again.

  • Though it in the range specified by the lab it is near upper limit. (Labs are not concerned with diagnosis). I think some insulin resistance is definitely there. That's why FBS is also high. So to lower FBS you have to work on the insulin resistance.

  • How does one work on the insulin resistance ? Please advice. Thanks.

  • As your case is of DP it is pertcularly difficult to suggest anything specific. But as you were planning for exercise you can try that. Additionally you can try again metformin SR. Also add ALA to your supplements.

  • Thanks.

    DP could also be related to circadian cycle and that's something to do with biological clock, which "may" also has relation with stress (stress as mind interprets and not as what we know). I say this because you have already tested with long fasting during he day to mimic nigh fasting during sleep and you did not find any abnormality. How about trying a chaptee with 2 Egg omelet loaded with cheese in dinner for few days and see if that has any impact. To fill yourself up you can even add a small serving of raita made from hole milk curd.

    Idea of morning walk is to get your A1C down hopefully. No need to be jogging. I am against jogging as it creates heavy "impact" on joints and does not offer more than 20% calorie burning advantage as compared to walking the same distance.

  • I have curd (home made, wife makes it) every night after dinner at about 8 pm. I have tried cheese (a full block of Amul cheese) at night too. I have tried wine. I have tried vinegar. All in vain, thus far.

    Even Metformin-SR has been useless & after 45 days, I have stopped it.

    I haven't done the treadmill as yet. And, I haven't consulted a diabetician thus far. I think you guys here are more honest and sincere with your views. I continue to read & try to find a solution.

    Thanks, medfree. Thanks, Patliputra. Thanks everybody.

    I am truly obliged.

  • Probably go directly for insulin or whatever...

  • Main line ?? :-)

  • Sent you my 1,850 - 2,200 calorie diet plan. My current intake of carb @ 200g a day is high by LCHF standards but better than average 500g I took in recent years up to beginning January 2014.

  • I took 1,800 calorie for 7%+ weight loss. To maintain BMI of 20.6 I need 2,200 calories.

  • Reduce your carb intake.

  • Good suggestion. BTW I avoid simple carbs for example chapatti is 70% whole wheat and 30% barley...

  • Once ground, the concept of whole grain is marketing gimmick. Perhaps that's why George recommends LW mash and possibly that's why LW Chapati made no appreciable difference to my PPBS as compared to normal wheat chapati.

  • Is LW Mash porridge made with LW Wheat? If yes, could taking pysllium husk achieve same objective i.e. inhibit spikes/retard glucose release?

  • Psyllium husk will help up to some extent. But you can't eat psyllium husk in large doses. Besides fiber, protein in LW also helps in lower glycemic response.

  • Thanks shrisamarth. Since I take quite a bit of Linseed, wonder if taking some of just before or along with a meal, would help?

  • Take it freshly powdered and added to curd or smoothie.

    That said, chana sattu.(ground with skin on) should get you more of fiber and protein too:

    fatsecret.com/calories-nutr...

    60 grams loads you with 42% RDV for fiber. Add 100grams nuts and you are almost done for the day as far as fiber part goes as rest come from veg etc.

    I am enjoying chana sattu rotee laced with butter all the more now :)

  • Medfree has already answered your query. You can add it to any preparation you like. You will also get small percentage of omega 3.

  • Thanks shrisamarth. I get over 200 calories from Flaxseed daily. Would that alone not take care of Omega - 3 need? I also take fatty fish Dandia...

  • It is very much debatable ,how much omega3 you get from flax seeds.Flax seeds contains ALA which which is precursor of active omega3,which are AHA and DHA.It is always doubtful how much ALA is converted into AHA and DHA by our body and more so in a diabetic state.Of course eating fatty part of fish definitely provide you with some AHA and DHA.

  • Fish Oil Lobby says that diabetics cannot convert ALA to DHA effectively. The same lobby went ahead to spread the scare that flaxseed can cause cyanide poisoning. ALA lobby says that Fish Oil Lobby is annoyed because ALA is far cheaper. This is a matter of open debate. To counter cyanide poisoning claim ALA lobby keeps talking of mercury contaminating Fish Oil.

    It ill be a never ending marketing gimmick from both sides.

  • so why go into their debate.West used flax not as a food ,but as a source for making linen,before cotton took over.

    flax originated in Asia and we are using it as a part of our diet since a very very long time. Our system has evolved to accept it naturally.

    The cyanide scare is meaning less as our bodies naturally processes it as small amount is always present in the body as we are taking thiocynates in our food through different vegs.More over the we take flax seed no more than 2-3 Table spoon which contain about 5-10 mg of non toxic thiocynate,while sodium or pot.cyanide needs to be taken in the range of 1000mg to cause serious toxic problems.

  • There are many foods in India which we are using since hundreds of years. Curcumin from turmeric is known to Ayurved. That's why turmaric is heated with oil (tadka) to extract curcumin.

  • medfree you are right. Some people can not even absorb 1%. Thirty percent is considered a very satisfactory level for use of Linseed.

  • The ALA to DHA conversion is not efficient.

    chriskresser.com/why-fish-s...

  • 500g == 2000kcal.

    So were you on 3200kcal diet earlier?

  • About 2,500 as I did not take that much flesh, flaxseed or nuts. Yes, in the first week of finding 11.6% I reduced intake to less than 1,200 and walked 12 kilometers with a view to achieve 7% weight loss which brought the A1C to 9.8%. After that average fall has been 0.175% per week and I may be reaching a plateau on the decline.

  • With that amount of carbs, you maybe hitting plateau. Unfortunately any further reduction will have to be drugs based if carbs cannot be reduced..

  • medfree: I may be able to reduce carb and/or GL. Do you agree I should not experiment with medicines before reaching a plateau?

  • Not before you have reduced carbs to 20% of your energy needs. Currently you are 14% off mark. That itself ill eliminate the need for drugs. But for that you will have to shun the conventional wisdom that saturated fat is bad for health. It is not once you are on 20% carbs for your energy needs.

  • Thanks for the advice. Perhaps I should go for further carb reduction before I take medicines...

  • Some oils (coconut, palm, sesame) including many of the margarines and hydrogenated are hard on me...but butter is OK. In fact cheers me up if I take in moderation. I love basic cheeses like cheddar...so taking mire fat may not be too much of an issue...

  • PUFA in all commercial vegetable oils like corn/sunflower/saffloer, canola etc that are sold as "healthy" is source of inflammation in body. Perhaps when you cut down carbs to Low carb territory you can give coconut oil a try again.

  • It is always advisable to avoid PUFA.Omega 6 is known to cause inflammation at cellular level including coronary arteries,initiating the process of atherosclerosis.If the ratio between Omega6 and Omega3 is1:2 or even 1:3 it is ok but beyond that it is injurious.Omega3 is anti inflammatory.

  • More on this here:

    marksdailyapple.com/polyuns...

    Some scientists here do not like the website that I have provided the link of but i love the site :)

  • Flesh ?? Whose ??

  • eugine: Hope you got my email yesterday?

  • small confession. I conducted a small camp in Pune based on LCHF mainly based on Khapli Gehun. It was a very exciting experience. My maid and cook made money. A lady wondered if Alphonso mangoes could be incorporated. A guy liked the Malai Lassi recipe and insisted it be included. Most liked Dal Makkhan Tadka. Rogan Josh and chicken Biryani were also liked. Afghani butter naan made out of Khapli gehun was also a hit. In the end every one gained 5-6 kg weight but went away blessing me for the nice time they had. When mood is good BS runs away. When they mentioned about gain in weight i told them all rats gain weight when diabetics comes under control.

  • Please forgive me,but I am a critical man,were it had to do any thing with diabetes or was it a food festival ?

  • I wanted to ask the same thing. AG is an expert on food so he may have clubbed diet and feast together.

  • It was based on LCHF principle and Khapli gehun was used as the cereal along with Bajra, Jowar, Barley Oats and brown chana,chhole, kidney beans, lobia.The whole idea was to show that Diabetes is a state of celebration not deprivation.

  • What exactly is Khapli gehun? Is there an English name for this?

  • Emmer wheat

  • So you don't conform to the view that"wheat is a wheat is a wheat".

    Well done, keep it up.

  • Not at all. Khapli gehun is also medicinal. Excuse me for responding on behalf of AG.

  • AG is a bloke who looks at you people for support. AG has no patent over Khapli Gehun. I am a foodie and working on how to help the diabetics lead a fuller life. Tell me how you put the smiley in your post?

  • For a donkey grass is a grass is a grass. The Alpine cows like to eat their grass with the alpine herbs to get the heavenly taste in their milk and chocolates. I follow Peace.

  • I am happy to note that you are drawn back to this forum.We need person like you in this forum.

  • :)

  • Your reply is exactly the same as I expected,a smile icon.

  • So what is DM2?

  • Let us know your perception.

  • I think Diabetes Type 2.

  • Are you so novice not to know what is dm2.Let me explain, Diabetes is of two types.

    (1) Diabetes insipidus-caused by a particular hormone difficiency.

    (2)- Diabetes Melliatus -It is again two types Type1 and type2,both are caused by little or no insulin (type1), insulin difficiency or insulin resistance or both(type2).

    It is in short commonly called dm1 and dm2.

  • Frequent urination and thirst are only common symptoms in both DI and DM. Otherwise it is totally different condition. Not related to insulin in anyway.

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