How not to Age

[JayPwP]

Without getting into the presenter's eligibility as some would support, and some would oppose, his views. I find the spermidine section interesting.

Chapter Autophagy & Spermidine starts at 14.10 mark

youtu.be/AOvV9m7feKo?si=EG1...(Not working as expected?)

[JayPwP]

What to take, wheat germ or Spermidine supplements? If wheat germ, how much? If Spermidine supplements, which brand and potency?

[LAJ12345 in reply to JayPwP]

He says try and get 20mg per day from all sources.

1tb wheat germ 2.4mg

100g mushrooms 9.2mg or 100g raw peanuts or half and half

100g green peas 5.8mg

100g lettuce 4.4mg

Would do it for example.

[park_bear]

Spermidine discussed at length here: healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Most supplements do not have enough to be effective. The other problem is spermidine is frequently accompanied by spermine which is toxic.

Caution - this individual has persisted in recommending raising uric acid levels even after that has been shown to be adverse. Details here: healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

[JayPwP in reply to park_bear]

Thank you

[JayPwP in reply to park_bear]

Went through the spermidine post, now I am confused whether to increase Spermidine or not?

Or to try Magnolia bark? 😆😆😆

[park_bear in reply to JayPwP]

Personally I have chosen to stay away from spermidine because of the spermine toxicity problem. Bolt_upright has received good results from honokiol / Magnolia Bark. It caused me sleeplessness so it does not work for me. But worth a try if you are so inclined.

[JayPwP in reply to park_bear]

Thank you

[LAJ12345]

interesting for sure. Here is a list of spermadine food sources, he suggests wheat germ as the cheapest easiest to add to diet.

Spermadine sources

[LAJ12345 in reply to LAJ12345]

fancy that. I didn’t have time to cook a proper dinner tonight so threw together corn fritters, some frozen peas, mushrooms and a salad of lettuce, and scrambled egg.. Spermadino delight!

Raw peanuts also have a lot, 9.2mg/100g

“They found the most predominant polyamine was spermidine (92 +/- 2.2 µg /g dry wt.), followed by spermine and putrescine (21 +/- 0.5 µg /g dry wt., 4 +/- 0.1 µg /g dry wt., respectively).

Chung concludes that "peanuts have a high level of spermidine. This compound, along with others, has been implicated in the prevention of food allergies in early life.”

Just off to grab a handful of raw peanuts and chunk of aged cheddar. Yum

[JayPwP in reply to LAJ12345]

Thank you

[LAJ12345 in reply to JayPwP]

Although now after watching video it appears the cheese and egg was not so good. Video was full of useful stuff and I might read the book.

[Eryl in reply to LAJ12345]

If people ate real wholemeal bread instead of ultra processed white bread they'd get plenty of wheatgerm and wouldn't need to add it to th diet.

[JayPwP]

Dear All,

Any idea how to remove spermine selectively from diet, while retaining Spermidine?

[LAJ12345 in reply to JayPwP]

I imagine if you eat it in whole food in its natural state it will come with some yet to be discovered compound that counteracts it or better still acts with it to do some thing else useful?

[LAJ12345 in reply to JayPwP]

my mate chatty gpt says

“While spermidine and spermine often coexist in various foods, the specific ratios and concentrations can vary. It's challenging to find foods that exclusively have high spermidine and low spermine because their presence in foods tends to be interconnected. However, some foods are generally reported to have higher spermidine levels compared to spermine:

Wheat Germ:

Wheat germ is known for its relatively high spermidine content.

Soybeans:

Soybeans are recognized for containing both spermidine and spermine, with spermidine often being more prominent.

Mushrooms:

Certain mushrooms, such as shiitake, are sources of spermidine.

Broccoli:

Broccoli is reported to contain spermidine, and its spermine levels may not be exceptionally high.

Green Peas:

Green peas are sources of spermidine, and their spermine levels may be relatively moderate.

It's crucial to understand that the concentration of polyamines in foods can vary, and their exact levels are influenced by factors such as the type of food, its source, and how it's prepared. Moreover, research on the specific spermidine-to-spermine ratio in foods is an ongoing area of study.”

[Eryl in reply to LAJ12345]

In other words eat real unprocessed foods.

[Eryl]

Clever but he is misguided on many points, Notably cholesterol (cholesterol is essential to carry essential fatty acids in the aqueous bloodstreasm , cause of Alzheimer's (amyloid plaques are the body's 'band aids' not the cause), salt consumption (even the Romans knew that salt is essential), source of omega3s (farmed fish does not contain omega3s) , sunlight avoidance (we need sunlight to produce vitamin D which is essential for our immune systems)

[kaypeeoh]

My doctors still push statins for cholesterol control. Do I listen to the doctors with 20 years or more of education or do I listen to nameless. faceless individuals on my laptop?

[park_bear in reply to kaypeeoh]

I offer this research by me referenced to the medical literature showing how cholesterol has gotten a bad rap:

A Tale Of Two Studies Leads To A Deeper Understanding Of Cardiovascular Disease

tinyurl.com/y6agl45j

[Eryl in reply to kaypeeoh]

Heres someone who disagrees with the mainstream, who's not scared to show his face and is well respected p.s he's now Prof Lustig of The University of California: youtu.be/C3rsNCFNAw8?si=soa...(Not working as expected?)

[park_bear in reply to Eryl]

Also:

youtu.be/BzTjPuikhQE?si=lMY...(Not working as expected?)

[LAJ12345 in reply to kaypeeoh]

I read the research and generally take anything the doctor says with a grain of salt. They’ve nearly killed hubby twice following their instructions.

[JayPwP in reply to LAJ12345]

Because their entire curriculum and professional career is bound by pushing pills, invasive techniques and accepted line of treatment guidelines, all based on symptom management only

[JayPwP in reply to kaypeeoh]

None of them... Do your study and listen to yourself

[Ashti in reply to kaypeeoh]

The How Not To Age book, referred to here, is based on a systematic review of the peer-reviewed literature. Greger and his team provide an extremely valuable service. The research shows you want your cholesterol very low since those with ‘normal’ cholesterol still have heart attacks. So, the best way to lower it with only beneficial side effects is to change to a whole-food plant-based diet. Until you switch to a healthy diet, bringing it down with medication is another option- but doing something is recommended.

[LAJ12345 in reply to Ashti]

An interesting podcast I watched by Ari Whitten and Dr James Chestnut on energyblueprint.com mentions how insurers’ actuaries always want to know if you are taking meds like cholesterol reducing ones because they know that even if bloodwork of a group of people has the same cholesterol levels, their expected mortality rates will differ if they are on cholesterol reducing meds.

The meds might reduce their cholesterol but their mortality rates are stilll higher. Ie the drugs don’t stop premature deaths.

The 4 interviews with Dr Chestnut are well worth watching. There is a fair bit of repetition and I like to play it on 1.5 speed as I do housework as my brain loses patience with slow speakers.

Another useful point he makes that is a bit of a paradigm changer is this:

If trout in a lake start dying do we give them drugs, medical procedures and build them hospitals. No, with animals the first question is always what in their environment has changed to cause these health issues. If we fix their environment the population will return to health.

Deteriorating health in the last generation cannot be due to genetic changes! It has happened too fast, therefore it is obviously changes in environment.

Humans biologically are just animals yet with our medical system it is always drugs and medical procedures first.

Instead it should always first be revert to a pristine environment with respect to food, air, water, sleep, light, exercise eliminate toxins to replicate the environment of our ancient ancestors. Only after a good long period in a pristine environment with the manual work ie exercise behaviours of our ancestors should we then be looking to drugs and procedures to manage any remaining health issue.

Makes perfect sense to me.

[JayPwP in reply to Ashti]

Cholesterol is required for the body including the brain, to repair itself.

There are numerous studies on lower cholesterol linked to higher mortality.

The so-called dangerous VLDL, lower the VLDL, higher mortality rates.

[JayPwP]

On a related note: Autophagy and Mitophagy

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[JayPwP]

Finally, I think autophagy via fasting, exercise and the combo is better than Spermidine induced autophagy

[kaypeeoh]

Why is autophagy from fasting and exercise better than autophagy from spermidine? Spermidine is the root source of amines. Amines are what the body uses for basic DNA function.

[JayPwP in reply to kaypeeoh]

If you look at park_bear first comment above and the Spermidine discussion therein, you will see that Spermidine is already elevated in PWPs. Plus the Spermine toxicity angle

[Reetpetitio in reply to JayPwP]

But I read that it's much lower in those with advanced Parkinsons.... so it's not quite as linear as that. I don't understand it!

[kaypeeoh]

Thanks for the note. Looking into it means falling into the rabbit hole of biochemistry. I still have the scars from doing that 30 years ago. But I will try.

[JayPwP in reply to kaypeeoh]

😆😆😆