Is anyone taking Spermedine? (Edit #2)
I’m researching it and as always appreciate your experience and contributions on the subject presented.
Spermidine: (editing) increasingly popula... - Cure Parkinson's
Spermidine: (editing) increasingly popular supplement, how does it effect PD?
37 Replies
•
UK source of quality Spermedine (they ship to the US) I use their NMN
park_bear• in reply to
"Spermidine from Do Not Age contains a whopping 4mg of spermidine per capsule."
Emphasis added. This is a microscopic quantity. This is about five percent of an effective dosage, which I calculated below.
• in reply topark_bear
What about Spermidine Life? I haven’t look deeply at it yet. I learned about spermidine from Dr. Elizabeth Yurth
park_bear• in reply to
From their website:
spermidinelife.com/en/sperm...
"What does your 30-day “spermidine boost trip” include?
30 sticks with 6 mg spermidine and other valuable ingredients such as spermine, putrescine, vitamins and minerals"
Once again a microscopic quantity. Plus this is exactly what I was afraid of – see my prescient comment below
Sadly, as is all too common this kind of research, they applied the spermidine at the same time as they applied the manganese toxin. This is not a valid test of Parkinson's relief. It is necessary to apply the toxin first, do the damage, and then see if the candidate substance undoes the damage. From the full text:
"flies were transferred into fresh vials with filter papers soaked with solution containing 10% sucrose and 20 mM MnCl 2 (pH 6.0) as previously described. For spermidine treatment, 5 mM spermidine (Sigma-Aldrich S2626) was added to the sucrose/ manganese solution and the pH was adjusted to pH 6.0... The same flies were tested after 24 h and 48 h of manganese treatment and additional supplementation with or without 5 mM spermidine. "
Similarly in the genetically driven nematode model they applied spermidine during the entire lifecycle:
" Supplementation of food with 5 mM spermidine significantly decreased this aSyn-induced neuronal degeneration"
I looked further and did find a valid study:
sciencedirect.com/science/a...
They applied rotenone for 14 days and then started applying the spermidine:
" Rats were treated subcutaneously with rotenone 1.5 mg/kg daily for 28 days. Spermidine 5&10 mg/kg was administered orally 1 h prior to rotenone administration from [day] 15 to 28."
The spermidine did result in improvement. 10 mg/kg was much more effective than 5 mg/kg. Adjusting for the metabolic rate difference between rats and humans and extrapolating to a 60 kilogram human yields a daily human dose of about 75 milligrams.
However, not so fast. This study found that the lack of an enzyme that breaks up spermidine was implicated in Parkinson's:
" we investigated a yeast model expressing α-synuclein. Polyamines [spermidine and spermine] were found to enhance the toxicity of α-synuclein,..Second, to test for a causal link between SAT1 activity [an enzyme that breaks up polyamines] and PD histopathology, we investigated a mouse model expressing α-synuclein. ... a pharmacological agent that reduces SAT1 activity, worsened the histopathology."
It is possible that spermine was the guilty party and spermidine was not because the enzyme being investigated breaks up both of them. However, the molecular structure of these two is similar and it is possible that a supplement containing one may also contain some of the other.
• in reply topark_bear
I understand and agree with all you are saying. I’m not ready to give up on it though. I will dig a bit more when I have time too. Thank you for your as always excellent research. You gave me a big leap forward in knowledge. At present I’m also trying to learn how to create more SCFA valerate. (Other thread)
• in reply topark_bear
I listened to this video last week. (Did not retain it all) But I believe 11 grams a day is the target number. A supplement in addition to dietary sources could achieve this.
He’s really young but please don’t be dissuaded. I’ve found him to be credible
park_bear• in reply to
That would be milligrams, not grams. Wish you the best of luck with this.
• in reply topark_bear
But 11 milligrams is very achievable.
park_bear• in reply to
Is very doable but far short of the 75 milligrams needed, if you choose to ignore the adverse evidence.
Here is an idea that survived my scrutiny and I am about to test personally:
healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
• in reply topark_bear
I’m not sure about the 75 milligrams needed. Please re link what you are about to test
Very curious
park_bear• in reply to
oops. correct link
healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
• in reply topark_bear
Yes, the Magnolia Bark! Very interesting! And bravo to Bolt! Very much looking forward to learning from your experience!
• in reply topark_bear
There is literally more Spermidine in cheddar cheese than those darn supplements! That’s so sketchy! Harvard doc on the advisory board!
park_bear• in reply to
Studies published in medical journals are evidence. Individual M.D. opinions can be well-informed or not well-informed and one does not know without assessing the evidence.
I don't take advice from MDs. I get my trusted advice from PBs.
Bolt_Upright• in reply to
I love cheddar cheese! Just bought some today!
Me, too, Bolt! Thanks for sharing your Magnolia Bark discovery!! 
I am buying grass fed, raw cheddar cheese. I love it, especially the "sharp" one.
• in reply toDespe
(After new info, revising. Now I think it might be good for PD.) Despe, I think we should actually reduce Spermidine or at least not increase it. Early stage PD brain has 3 times the Spermidine as controls. Spermidine is being pushed online as the latest longevity supplement but for PWP it could be detrimental.
Hmm. Grass fed raw cheddar cheese. The hunt is on!
• in reply toBolt_Upright
Bolt, I think we need to reduce spermidine. EDIT now I think I was wrong! Researching more.
Spermidine is being touted as a neuroprotective autophagy booster. On YouTube, it is being frequently discussed by the “longevity” researchers and credible doctors are behind it. BUT
How does it affect PD?
This has turned in to a very real and scary life lesson for me. I thought I had done my due diligence.
I read multiple quotes like this,
“A study using the rotenone-induced rat model of PD showed that spermidine had neuroprotective action [91]. It was estab- lished that spermidine administration concurrently with rote- none prevented loss of dopaminergic neurons, attenuated OS and neuroinflammation, and restored monoamine levels [91-
93]. Nematode model studies have demonstrated that spermi- dine has a neuroprotective action towards α-synuclein. The studies suggest that this cytoprotective action (autophagy) ac- counts for the beneficial effects of spermidine administration”
So, I bought it and started taking it. And increasing my dietary intake substantially as well.
But then, I read that in early stage PD, spermidine is 3.5 times higher than that in healthy individuals. And, spermidine and spermine promote aggregation of a-synuclein from non-aggregated to aggregated.
This is one of the papers I read tonight. It contains conflicting information.
neurores.org/index.php/neur...
I’m sharing this because up until this afternoon I was excited about the potential of spermidine. So, I posted about it. Thank goodness Park Bear dug in to this and alerted me! Park Bear literally saved me from continuing to ingest something that was literally highly likely to have been speeding up my decline. Park Bear, to say I am grateful to you is an understatement!
I intend on writing to some of the doctors promoting this including Dr. David Sinclair.
park_bear• in reply to
Credit to you for being open to new information!
CC,
Although too soon and having added two new supplements/meds on my husband's list, he is talking to me and uses expressions that he was using before PD. IOW, cognition and mental alertness are the results of these two sups/meds: CBD gummies and MONTELUKAST! Our PP would not prescribe Mentelukast. I then reached out to our MDS at Vanderbilt. She asked us to ask our PP for the prescription. I told her that we did ask our PP and that he had refused. Soon enough after we mentioned to her that the PP would not prescribe it, my husband got a portal email from our PP "I will call in your Singulair."
• in reply toDespe
Asthma medicine??Why?
I don’t know anything about this.
In addition to Ambroxol?
I’m elated to here your dear Hubby is doing well!
Spermedine / Spermine : yes or no for PD? I wrote to the CEO of Do Not Age to ask. I received a response from “his team” that I’m “not differentiating between Spermedine and spermine. I am.
But the point and question still remains, is it a longevity supplement good for Parkinson’s or not?
This is the article I included in my response to the CEO.
This is what I sent to the Do Not Age supplement company “team.” And I attached the link in my previous comment.
Help me if you can determine if it is helpful or harmful or neutral then Im going to ask them about dosing because as PB pointed out, I think one needs way more than what is being sold in supplements.
Email to Do Not Age
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