I intentionally did not include the entire title of the article in the heading as I think it may be unnecessarily negative. Here is the article: Medium-Dose Lithium May Hit Parkinson Disease Targets, but Tolerability Questionedhmpgloballearningnetwork.co...
Here is the good part of the article:
"The open-label clinical trial investigated the effects of lithium, which has shown promise in animal models of Parkinson disease, in 16 people with Parkinson disease. The study randomized 5 patients to “high dose” lithium (lithium carbonate titrated to achieve serum level of 0.4–0.5 mmol/L), 6 patients to “medium-dose” lithium (45 mg/day of lithium aspartate), or 5 patients to “low-dose” lithium (15 mg/day of lithium aspartate) over 24 weeks.
According to the study, patients who received medium-dose lithium therapy demonstrated a 679% increase in peripheral blood mononuclear cell (PBMC) mRNA expression of nuclear receptor-related-1 (Nurr1) and a 127% increase in superoxide dismutase-1 (SOD1) expression, both of which are therapeutic targets in Parkinson disease.
Among a subset of patients who underwent magnetic resonance imaging, only those who received medium-dose lithium therapy had numerical decreases in brain free water in the dorsomedial nucleus of the thalamus and nucleus basalis of Meynert, which reflect cognitive decline, and the posterior substantia nigra, which reflects motor decline. The demonstrated free water decreases are opposite of known longitudinal changes in Parkinson disease, researchers explained."
I may need to re-evaluate my 20 mg a day of Lithium Orotate dose.
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Bolt_Upright
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Bolt, my friend, you may not need to up your dose! Hear me out. From your post, it looks like they are referring to the Lithium salts in the forms of Lithium Carbonate and Lithium Aspartate. From my extensive research on Lithium salts, I know that these two types are less available in the brain due to peripheral metabolism, similar to the way Levodopa without Carbidopa gets metabolized peripherally as well. The form I take and highly recommend, Lithium OROTATE, more freely crosses the blood brain barrier and allows for a much smaller and SAFER, more tolerable dose to achieve the effect we are looking for.
read this book, its the best source of information on the topic. It was recommended highly by a doctor I respect very much, has numerous citations from Dr Laurie Mischley, whom is familiar to many that frequent Health Unlocked and works pretty much exclusively with nutritional support and supplementation for people with Parkinsons disease, and, this book has a whole chapter expressly focused on Parkinsons Disease as well. I have read other books and seen numerous videos by experts, but this is the best of all of them.
So, you may not need to increase your dose, but you may want to consider the type of Lithium you are taking instead. I would stay away from Carbonate, the dose you need is so high that its toxic to the kidneys. The Aspartate form is not much better, I believe. This is probably why patients dropped out of the study. Lithium Orotate is very unlikely to cause side effects.
Personally, I have been on 15mg Lithium Orotate daily for several years and I attest that it is helpful, especially in the cognition department. As far as motor symptoms go, I havent progressed much in 10 years but I cant say for sure its because I take Lithium Orotate or if its the B1. Perhaps both, plus I sleep better now than I used to due to a number of factors, so I think that is helping me keep the progression at bay. (Not saying Lithium makes me sleep better. I dont have babies keeping me up at night or a job that I am on call at night for anymore)
Well, its something to consider. Read the book, its very helpful. Then talk to your doctor, but chances are they wont know anything about it. Maybe that will help you decide how to adjust your dose.
Medium dose seems to have been the most effective. Here is a good video on it: Repurposing Low-Dose Lithium for Alzheimer's and Parkinson's Disease youtu.be/7QANgi46fqA
Dr. Thomas Guttuso, MD, Professor of Neurology at the University at Buffalo, tells the story of how he accidentally discovered low-dose lithium therapy to provide anecdotal benefit to many of his Parkinson's disease patients and how that discovery led to the unveiling of an impressive body of published research, dating back to 1959, showing low-dose lithium therapy to potentially prevent and slow both Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease.
This is a recording of his Zoom slide presentation on March 6, 2023 to the "Young at Heart Parkinson Support Group" comprised of patients and caregivers in Rochester, NY. The presentation uses limited scientific jargon and explains the supporting research in easy-to-understand language that anyone can grasp and appreciate.
As another Mischley student, I would note that she tests your lithium levels first to determine whether your are low and at least 6 months after starting to see where supplementing takes you to. If you get too high, she'll lower the dose or the frequency that you supplement. She uses the Doctor's Data Essential Elements and Heavy Metals Toxicity Test (22 Elements and 17 Toxins), which is a hair test that you can order yourself on Amazon for around $125. The test reports your levels under a normal curve. Since most PWP are severly depleted, the goal is to get you back under the center of the curve or a little ahead of it.
I read Guttosso's study and don't recall that he established lithium baselines for the participants, which is odd. Depending on where you live and the amount of lithium already present in your water supply, everyone would have differing base levels. Its possible that some of his participants were not deficient at all and that his dosing might have been inappropriate.
Mischley has also observed that there frequently is depletion of the other 3 akali metals (Na, K, Rb) in addition to Lithium. She doesn't have an explanation yet, but my uneducated guess is that as the body fights reactive oxygen species it consumes our stores of H, Li, Na, K, and Rb which form the left most column of the periodic table and readily donate an electron.
I have been taking 15mg of lithium orotate daily for over a year. My initial test result was 0.002 µg/g and my recent reading is .038µg/g. The reference interval is 0.007- 0.020, so I've gone from being low to a little high. I can't credit the supplementation for any noticeable symptom improvement, but I have few symptoms and hope to keep it that way as long as possible.
Here is a good video on it: Repurposing Low-Dose Lithium for Alzheimer's and Parkinson's Disease youtu.be/7QANgi46fqA
Dr. Thomas Guttuso, MD, Professor of Neurology at the University at Buffalo, tells the story of how he accidentally discovered low-dose lithium therapy to provide anecdotal benefit to many of his Parkinson's disease patients and how that discovery led to the unveiling of an impressive body of published research, dating back to 1959, showing low-dose lithium therapy to potentially prevent and slow both Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease.
This is a recording of his Zoom slide presentation on March 6, 2023 to the "Young at Heart Parkinson Support Group" comprised of patients and caregivers in Rochester, NY. The presentation uses limited scientific jargon and explains the supporting research in easy-to-understand language that anyone can grasp and appreciate.
Ah. The "but Tolerability Questioned" part of the title. I discounted the tolerability issue. I think just a few dropped out and, like somebody mentioned in this thread, maybe if they had used orotate they would not have had an issue.
hi bolt - i watched the video posted above ... as i'm sure you did ... the doc tested 3 dosages: high, medium and low with "medium dosage of .45 milligrams daily" being the "winner" ... and the doc said he prescribed lithium "aspartate" ....
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I noticed that you said you are taking 20 mg of "orotate" -- any reason for that?
When I first heard of the study I traded e-mails with the doctor asking about Orotate vs Aspartate. He said he picked Aspartate based on some rat study on Orotate and cancer (I think) but did not think it would make any difference. bassofspades has a high opinion of Orotate so I stuck with Orotate (as I was already taking it). I may switch. I just got a book on Lithium today.
i'm searching for more options for aspartate because the link i gave you ... at the does recommended by the video above (.45 milligrams daily) = 3 BOTTLES A MONTH!
Lithium supplementation is gaining recognition as a preventative measure against Alzheimer's disease, with aspartate and orotate the binders used in the recommended supplements. According to Dr. Jonathan V. Wright, the medical director of the Renton, Washington-based Tahoma Clinic, lithium therapy can slow the progression of Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and senile dementia. A 2000 study conducted by Dr. Gregory Moore, director of the Brain Imaging Research Division of the Wayne State University School of Medicine in Detroit, Michigan, performed MRI scans on 10 bipolar subjects before and after four weeks of lithium treatment. The post-treatment scans revealed a significant increase in gray matter volume compared to the pre-treatment scans. Dr. Moore's study used lithium carbonate, but proponents of lithium aspartate and lithium orotate treatment see the results as indicative of the overall efficacy of lithium against Alzheimer's.
yup i see i made a boo boo .. so i am currently take 1 tablet of orotate 5 mg ... and you've been taking 4x as much as me ... you notice any difference?
I have not been diagnosed with PD. I have RBD (REM Sleep Behavior Disorder) and had some early PD symptoms: Sore left shoulder and left leg, face dandruff, random involuntary movements, loss of smell, poop problems, mild balance issues, occasional (rare) tremor in my left hand.
My face dandruff seems to be gone. Involuntary movements are very much down. I still have a sore left shoulder and leg (but much better than it used to be) and my sense of smell is still bad (but maybe slightly improved). Poop is fine and balance is fine. And my RBD is much much better than it was 2 years ago.
I need to update my stack to point out I eat about half a cup of pistachios every morning. Have been for well over a year.
My father was still undiagnosed (but under observation) last fall when his cognitive state really went downhill. He lost track of things, time and place and became apatic, depressed and less interested engaging in social activities. We had for long time suspected starting alzheimer.
After a lot of digging on the Internet, reading everything related to research on brain neurodegenerative diseases from forums to research papers and other sources it seemed obvious to me that there were something very interesting about Lithium – especially Aspartate and Orotate, though Carbonate is typically referred to in shcool medical research.
Further investigation on Litihum suggested that the poisonous effect was slightly exaggerated due to the so-called therapeutic use in treating bi-polar disorder with dosages usually between 450-1000mg Lithium Carbonate daily to get the right milliequalent per liter blood (MEQ/l) – this of course depends on the persons size/weight. The “therapeutic” dosage is very high and will give side-effects (worst case death) if not taken with Omega 3 oil/fish oil/flaxseed oil. Another aspect was the probability of getting serotonin syndrome when used in combination with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors like Escitalopram (trade names Lexapro, Cipralex). Still I found the combination of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and Lithium in “therapeutic” dosages to be common in bi-polar diosorders with not too many complications.
The conclusion seemed obvious; Lithium in low dosages (20-30mg daily) was way under what could be considered dangerous, so we bought Lithium Aspartate 5mg and started the treatment with 10mg a day + omega 3 oil.
Overnight, after 10-12 hours, he became another man; social, happy, decisive and back in the drivers seat. In some areas he became the man he was 20 years earlier and in others where he was some years ago. Still he had some fall-backs when he was put under a lot of stress. After some months on Lithium Aspartate he now got the diagnosis, but still he can work and his cognivtive state seems to be stable; overall pretty normal functioning, but not when put under heavy mental pressure or when forgetting to take the Lithium (which now is 20mg a day.
I am sure of one thing – considering his state last year, if it had not been for Lithium, he would never have been working or functioning like he does at this point in time.
The interesting part remains; the future development.
BTW: I have also been using 10-20mg daily in the same period – no problems.
I take about 15 supplements so it is hard to know what is working. And I have not been diagnosed with PD. I have REM Sleep Behavior Disorder, which doctors say is prodromal PD.
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