TMAO : eggs & red meat mentioned : PD starts in the gut

[Little_apple]

youtu.be/Mw6krM2oiOs(Not working as expected?)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/334...

[park_bear]

TMAO is an indicator of TMA = trimethylamine, which gets mentioned at 3:43 in the video. Generally agreed to be a very bad actor. I wrote about this here: Choline And Carnitine Supplementation Can Be Cardiotoxic tinyurl.com/bdz5cy3u

TMA comes from degradation of choline in the gut. We do need some choline, which is abundant in eggs, but additional amounts lead to problematic levels of TMA. I personally experienced this.

Contradictory result from above linked study: " Results: Plasma TMAO levels of patients with PD were lower than those of healthy controls." Likely due to suboptimal consumption of choline by PD patients due to reduced consumption of eggs and the like because of protein content. Another case of association not being causation.

[Little_apple in reply to park_bear]

I am inclined to believe that PWP have an excess of TMAO not a reduction as stated in the link. But given that the link to a study was contradictory I thought it worth contemplating.

PWP have indican in their urine according to Mischley which I would think would coincide with increased TMAO.

Oddly, Citicoline to increase choline is recommended by Mischley to reduce Levodopa dosage needed. And Citicoline is recommended for ALZ. But if it increases TMAO which stimulates the PD pathology then the short term gain might be at the cost of stimulating PD progression.

[park_bear in reply to Little_apple]

Citicoline not immune to conversion to TMA: sciencedirect.com/science/a...

"the higher excretion of radioactivity associated with trimethylamine in urine found when cytidine diphosphate [methyl-14C] choline [Citicoline] was given orally, suggest that the compound may be metabolized, at least in part, previous to its gastrointestinal absorption."

The adverse effect of TMA on the cardiovascular system is proven. That is enough for me to avoid it.

[chartist in reply to Little_apple]

Melatonin and Berberine may offset the negative effects of TMAO, but she has never recommended either of them. Melatonin and Berberine will also help protect the organs that can be negatively impacted by TMAO. Both are beneficial in PD studies.

Art

[Little_apple in reply to chartist]

Berberine reduces choline induced TMAO

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

[Little_apple]

Allicin from garlic decreases TMAO

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

[enjoy2013]

Why don't we ask Laurie Mischley, I am sure she will answer.

[Elsie3b in reply to enjoy2013]

following

[Ghmac in reply to Elsie3b]

following

[Despe in reply to enjoy2013]

She recommended citicholine to my husband.

[BlueHawaii]

Are we not to eat eggs?

[Marcia123]

this is very interesting. I had none of the early signs like constipation, depression but I did have a disturbing gut do too many antibiotics, and my microbio is probably a a mess. I started to have worse symptoms after taking levodopa, carbidopa and amantadine. My drooling tremor walk it and hand writing all got worse, and I could barely stand. I think that th Levodopa, Cardova and amantadine could actually disturb the gut more

[enjoy2013]

In my case too I have no constipation nor did I in the pre-diagnosis time. However, I very recently got a gastro and colonoscopy and underwent an enema, and I think I experienced some improvement. It's only been a month but I'm not the first to go through this experience

[kaypeeoh]

So elevated TMA is found in PD patients but not healthy controls. Sounds like Alpha synucleon which is elevated in PD patients but not in healthy controls?

[Despe]

biotiquest.com/pages/sugar-...

Interesting. . .thinking about having hubby starting it, however, I don't want him to lose weight.

Anyone tried it, heard of it??

[Little_apple in reply to Despe]

”Increases gastrointestinal mannitolproduction through the consumption of glucose and fructose. Mannitol is an osmoprotectant and prevents the aggregation of harmful proteins.• Boosts the abundance of siderophore production. Siderophores are important molecules in the control of pathogens.• Decreases inflammation and improves gut and brain health by increasing the production of butyrate.• Increases the production of glutathione – an important antioxidant.”

[Despe in reply to Little_apple]

Yes, I read that, but it also contributes in losing weight. Losing weight is not an option for my husband.

[enjoy2013]

I take mannitol for a while and my weight is stable