Thiamine and Gut Biome

[jimcaster]

Interesting thiamine and gut biome connection.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/289...

[Hidden]

Jim,

It is known that thiamine can improve the gut microbiome and it is also know that thiamine can be synthesized in the gut. It is also known that PWPs are lacking in these two areas. I believe that this process occurs slowly over a period of months of using HDT depending on the existing condition of the gut microbiome. Here is a quote from the study you linked to :

' Among the Bacteroidetes, the capacities for both thiamine transport and biosynthesis are common. '

Many HDT users seem to find that after months of use at what was thought to be an optimal and effective dose, they find that suddenly they are having symptoms of B-1 overdose. My thinking on this is that the improved microbiome and consequent increased thiamine production in the gut may potentially be the reason for this common occurrence. To me, this combination of events and ultimately B-1 overdose symptoms, seem like a reasonable expectation if your gut biome is actually improving as expected with the HDT / B-1 usage. Does that make sense to you?

The question I have is does this also occur in PWPs who are using injections since the thiamine is not being delivered directly to the gut in such huge amounts and as often, in which case it can't potentially effect some repair of the gut oral dosing might?

Art

[jimcaster in reply to Hidden]

That makes a lot of sense to me and it's also very encouraging. I don't know how long this will last nor do I know how much credit to attribute to thiamine (but I'm inclined to say a lot). I just know I'm better now than when diagnosed and I'm incredibly grateful to Dr. C. and to everyone on this site.

[Hidden in reply to jimcaster]

Jim,

You didn't say, but it sounds like you may have found your correct dose of B-1? If that is correct and you are stable at your current dose with a good push test also, you can always completely stop HDT for a couple of months and you will know exactly what you can attribute to HDT and what you can't. Just a thought to help determine what HDT is or isn't doing for you. Once you know the answer, you can resume the B-1 and get right back to where you left off if you choose to without problem.

Art

[jimcaster in reply to Hidden]

Thanks, Art! I feel great at 1.5 grams per day and I'm going with the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy.😊

[Hidden in reply to jimcaster]

I fully understand your point, Jim. I was just making the suggestion in case you were looking for clarification because I know I am that guy that would be looking for clarification, but I am also a believer in, "if it ain't broke"!

Art

[MBAnderson in reply to Hidden]

good question

[MBAnderson in reply to Hidden]

I can easily imagine that injecting thiamine misses the benefits of it in the gut.

Let us know what you find. I might add a few hundred milligrams orally to my injections.

[Hidden in reply to MBAnderson]

Marc,

I asked Dr. C about the gut repair aspect of oral dosing compared to intramuscular injections. Either the translator got it twisted or he didn't understand my question. His reply was that there was insufficient data to make a determination, but it seems to me that he has enough of both types of patients to draw some type of conclusion. I may try asking him again later, but it is hard to do using the translator because sometimes it just gets it plain wrong and especially when you are asking a more complex question that would require more than a yes or no answer!

Art

[MBAnderson in reply to Hidden]

Thanks for trying. Probably, some of what is injected makes it from the bloodstream into the intestine, but I don't see that as being significant. Of course, what I know, but as a result of the articles, I have added an oral dose my injections.

[Hidden in reply to MBAnderson]

I meant to mention to you that your melatonin intake may have synergy with your Niagen intake. I also wanted to ask you if you can tell any improvement at all that you would attribute to taking Niagen since you have been taking it for months now?

Btw, how did you decide on 9 mg of melatonin?

Art

[MBAnderson]

Here's a study I mentioned previously that says no more than 2.5 mg gets absorbed. Seems like we know that's wrong?

neurores.org/index.php/neur...

Kia posted this very informative link 4 days ago which says a lot of things, 1 of which is that brain health is dependent upon balanced microbio and another of which is that there are 2 enzymes in the gut that either destroy or synthesize thiamine depending on the pH of the microbiota. May be part of the explanation as to why it works better in some than others -- which means tinkering with (correcting imbalances in) your micro-biome may allow thiamine to be more effective.

hormonesmatter.com/thiamine...