Q&A: What to Feed/Not Feed Your Microbiome w Dr.Tom O'Bryan

[PDConscience]

Lengthy (1:45hrs) but helpful for those with gut-related health issues (most of us).

youtu.be/khna_Vy8RAM(Not working as expected?)

[WinnieThePoo]

I only skipped to 27.37 and already decided that's enough.

1) 27 minutes in - billed as what to eat- and its been that long preamble about repeating how great the digestion and microbiome is. Contrast that with the "food for thought-diet and nutrition in PD" talk. 27 minutes in, it was nearly finished and had covered a ton of evidence based useful practical information

2) "80% of the room have a wheat intolerance" "Cross your legs for 3 hours then go run - give your child wheat for breakfast and ask him to study". Bullshit. 80% plus of the high achieving kids I know at University eat wheatabix for breakfast and sandwiches for lunch. They eat wheat, and study like a top athlete winning a race, and not like one that had its legs crossed for 3 hours. If you must use stunts use credible ones. (From my experience with dogs, wheat intolerance is the most common, but we are talking 5% maybe 10%)

3) Clearly I have an intolerance to Well.Org. Maybe the bits I don't have time to watch are better, but that failed at the "scan filter" stage.

[PDConscience in reply to WinnieThePoo]

I'm just concerned about the irrepressible urge to pontificate that prompted your quick skip through the clip. Could it be those wheatabix you had for breakfast?.

[WinnieThePoo in reply to PDConscience]

Yeah maybe a fair cop. It's my busy season but I don't want to miss a trick about PD. I guess I should accept there's too much chaff for my tolerance to get to the wheat from those guys and skip over. I think the cynical chain mail sales stunt dressed as philanthropy on the 7 part series lowered my tolerance too. That and a feeling that excess wheat bashing is not good for your health

[MBAnderson in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Poo,

You set the bar pretty high. I watched the whole thing, thought it was good, and feel anyone would benefit from watching it. No, I didn't agree with everything he said.

Did you decide on Viome or where does that stand?

Marc

[WinnieThePoo in reply to MBAnderson]

I am waiting for my UK poo test results from Atlas Biomed. I think they will give me the raw data I was looking for (as will Viome). If so, I'll stick with that because I want to test frequently and it's 1/3 the price. At this point I find Viome's claims that lower level gene sequencing to provide targeted personalised diet recommendations, and by consequence better health, to be a marketing claim unsupported by independent evidence. As confirmed by the research link pdc provided.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/275...

"There was no evidence that including phenotypic and phenotypic plus genotypic information enhanced the effectiveness of the PN advice."

you can calculate pi to 100 decimal places, but if you want to know if the coil of pipe is long enough to cross the yard based on measuring its diameter, 3 is close enough.

[WinnieThePoo in reply to MBAnderson]

Marc

I'd be interested in a precis. Or your assurance I would find it worthwhile putting 2 hours aside. I am wary of this lot. There is an industry in gluten free - not just the manufacturers of gf foods, but practitioners and authors like the 2 on the video. To call them casual or selective with the science is too considerate.

I worked in pet food, and had the opportunity to consult with, and learn from a Cambridge nutritionist - David Frape (who actually specialised in horses), and we majored on gluten free. Granted, I have no way of knowing if the pooches had brain fog, and were struggling with their exams (although, generally "working dog" foods had wheat in , cos it was cheap). But we knew about colitis, eczema and the like. Gluten intolerance (and food intolerances generally) were a fad (and still are) in the doggy world too. But probably no more than 10% maximum had a real food intolerance and 90% of those it was to wheat and not gluten. We produced a true gluten free (chicken and rice) and a wheat free (maize chicken and rice) which was about 2/3 the price. (There are other reasons, like less poo to clear up, why wheat free is good for dog food - dogs digestions are far less efficient than ours at absorbing energy from wheat)

The following are a couple of links for the case for the defence

abbeyskitchen.com/non-celia...

thedailymeal.com/healthy-ea...

A couple of quotes

"Eliminating gluten will probably mean you ingest a lot less fiber in your diet, which could actually cause more problems with your digestion in the long run. Hello, constipation!"

"Missing out on vital nutrients. Grains are fantastic sources of key dietary fibres, antioxidants, and B vitamins. Without proper counselling (or even a legit reason), you may be missing out on these key nutrients."

Supplementing is OK, but try to get nutrients from food - (wish I could find my old "Optimum Nutrition" book - I think now terminally lost in the move.)

Maybe that wasn't relevant to the whole presentation, but it was relevant to the guest speaker and his vested interest, and his early comments.

Richard

[MBAnderson in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Well put.

An hour and 45 minutes is a long time even for those of us who need to get a life.

I thought it worth watching because of the emphasis he placed on functional medicine, bolstering the immune system, (and a couple other things) and micro-biome analysis and intervention, which I feel is underappreciated.

Their level concern about electromagnetic fields is new to me. I had no idea exposure was that harmful, but that may turn out to be true, and if so, I'll be glad I learned it. What did you think about that part?

I'm not put off by his suggesting people be tested for wheat and gluten sensitivity. I'm not sensitive to wheat, but I don't eat much it anyway. I know how much fiber I need from other places.

Thanks for the links. Those are interesting. That lower level sequencing is of no value is also a surprise to me.

Marc

PS. We have a 35 pound Beagle/Tree Hound/mutt (that often howls) that is loved more than life itself, so what brand dog food do you recommend? (My wife had her DNA tested. Is it OK to say that in public?)

[WinnieThePoo in reply to MBAnderson]

Could you point me to a time marker for the electromagnetic fields? I don't want to slog through the whole lot. Is it the magnet on a mobile phone?

I went gluten free for a week and ultra low gluten for a month. Once I think I have the bugs in order, I might try a leaky gut test. But I think it unlikely I am affected. I certainly don't notice anything when I eat bread. (I eat much less gluten now - but because I have replaced sandwiches with salads, and cereal with fruit and yoghurt. Mostly). My son has a very obvious gluten intolerance that is not celiac, but that was because he drunk an aquarium full of fish poo as a teenager trying to syphon it out to clean the tank at his mums. He was seriously ill for 3 weeks - thought he was going to die. I despair for his microbiome but he's 24 now and won't be told.

I don't know US brands. I worked for Oscar Pet Foods but they only supply the UK (and ship to me in France!). This is what I feed my mutts

oscars.co.uk/products/dog/f...

Hills and Eukanuba presumably still sell in the US. Otherwise, avoid "Meat and Animal Derivatives" or "Cereals and cereal extracts". I prefer a wheat free (or nearly wheat free) food because of the smaller firmer poos (which are also good for keeping their anal glands healthy). Feed rate on a quality feed should be about 100gm food per 10Kg bodyweight - so your mutt would want about 350gm a day as an adult (TOTAL - if you feed titbits deduct that from the dog food allowance). Growing dogs up to 18-24 months can eat twice that. Older veterans maybe less. Aim for at least 15000iu per Kg Vitamin A (all the other vitamins will be in proportion, because they all use the same multivitamin additive). I feed dry food dry. Half in the morning and half in the evening. Remember if you are looking at tinned wet food, it is 80% water. so 4/5 of the can is water and 1/5 food. If its 8% protein and 2000iu/kg Vit A wet, then adjusted for water, the food is 40% protein and 8000iu/kg Vit A. If he farts a lot, raise his feed bowl, so he's not gulping down air with his food.

That do you for now?

Edit: that should be 10000iu vitamin A per kg dry food equivalent for 2000iu per kg wet. Not 8000iu. Multiply by 5!

[MBAnderson in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Thank you, thank you.

Thanks about the vitamin A.

Half of our dog's food is home cooking. My wife mixes and cooks ground beef, ground turkey, ground chicken, rice, carrots and whatnot and the other half is dry, Blue Buffalo, Taste of the Wild. 90% of the world's children would be glad to eat what our dog eats.

I can't view it again to find electromagnetic stuff but, yes, essentially they were saying we should use earplug speakers.