Hormone deficiency (low) in male PwP. Is hormone therapy (hormone pellets) safe?

[Despe]

Hormone deficiency (low) in PwP. Is hormone therapy (hormone pellets) safe?

[Winnerbeginner]

Hi despe

Do you mean hypogonadism, or low testerone? That's pretty common in men pwp.

If so, testosterone replacement therapy - gels, patches, pellets and shots -- don't seem to have an impact as far as I can tell. Send me an email and we can talk offline.

[Despe in reply to Winnerbeginner]

Yes, hypogonadism. His FM physician at Cleveland Clinic asked us to go see a pcp and discuss it. I will let you know after we find out what the doc will recommend. . .I have reservations because of possible side effects.

Checked it on the web and hypogonadism is one of the causes of PD.

[Winnerbeginner in reply to Despe]

A lack of dopamine allows a brain chemical to flourish that suppresses the production of testosterone. There are side effects to testosterone replacement therapy, such as elevated red blood cell counts /heart problems and a higher risk of prostate problems. But low T also causes problems with immunity and healing, lack of sleep, low sex drive and weight gain.

So, it’s a mixed bag.

[Despe in reply to Winnerbeginner]

Thanks. As I mentioned, I will weigh risks vs benefits and will decide. . .

Are you on hormone therapy? I have a brochure from Bioidentical Hormone Optimization for Men and Women (Hormone Pellets) and will take it to the doc to see what he thinks.

[Winnerbeginner]

Yes. I’ve been on it since 2011

[Despe in reply to Winnerbeginner]

Does it help and in what way? Thanks

[Winnerbeginner]

I’m much more alert. I take less crap from people. I’m more sexually active and reliable. Exercise has a more immediate effect on my metabolism and physique. My free testosterone numbers went up from 115 to about 700.

[Despe in reply to Winnerbeginner]

Glad to hear it. Hope my husband will enjoy same results should he decide to give it a try. He has MCI and was wondering if HT would help it. He takes no PD meds as of yet, just vitamins the Functional Medicine (FM) physician, Cleveland, prescribed. He also tested for NutrEval and depending on the results, we'll go from there. FM physician suggested that we go see our family doctor about hypogonadism.

[silvestrov]

There may be an option in using the herb fenugreek (trigonella foenum-graecum).

Testofen, a specialised Trigonella foenum-graecum seed extract reduces age-related symptoms of androgen decrease, increases testosterone levels and improves sexual function in healthy aging males in a double-blind randomised clinical study.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/267...

Testofen® Fenugreek Seed Extract(Trigonella foenum-graecum) (standardized to 50% fenusides) 300 mg

Suggested Use: As a dietary supplement, take one veggie capsule two times per day with water.

swansonvitamins.com/swanson...

But is fenugreek good for PwP?

Efficacy and safety of standardized extract of Trigonella foenum-graecum L seeds as an adjuvant to L-Dopa in the management of patients with Parkinson

"We conducted double-blind placebo-controlled proof of concept clinical study of IBHB capsules (300 mg, twice daily) with matching placebo for 6 months of period in 50 patients of PD stabilized on L-Dopa therapy."

"Total UPDRS scores in IBHB treatment (0.098%) showed slower rise as opposed to steep rise (13.36%) shown by placebo. Further, Clinically Important Difference for total UPDRS scores and scores of motor subsection of UPDRS was found to be 5.3 and 4.8, respectively, in favour of IBHB treatment. Similar improvement was shown by IBHB in terms of H&Y staging as compared with placebo."

forum.parkinson.org/topic/1...

[Despe in reply to silvestrov]

silvestrov,

I very much appreciate your insight and information you provided. However, my husband is not on any PD meds (as the Mayo neurologist suggested) and he is 74.

Do you believe, suggest that he still is a good candidate for fenugreek?

[silvestrov]

I absolutely recommend your husband take Fenugreek along with microencapsulated butyric acid and 250 mg of niacin. It is not necessary to read every article I posted because I highlight in important facts to create a narrative. When the previous study showed that Fenugreek along with levodopa slowed the progress of PD, an extremely important therapeutic discovery, the scientists did not say why it happened - they just said fenugreek slowed progression. Here is my explanation why I think Fenugreek slowed progression of PD:

Sudden decline in testosterone may cause Parkinson's disease symptoms in men

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Galactomannan from Trigonella foenum-graecum L. seed: Prebiotic application and its fermentation by the probiotic Bacillus coagulans strain MTCC 5856

"The galactomannan was fermented and utilized (71.4%) by the B. coagulans MTCC 5856, and also significant amount of short-chain fatty acids production was also observed."

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

short chain fatty acids = SCFA

Fenugreek seed affects intestinal microbiota and immunological variables in piglets after weaning

"Higher concentrations of l-lactic acid were recorded in the small-intestinal digesta (average concentrations from the duodenum, jejunum and ileum; P < 0·05), while the concentrations of SCFA remained unchanged except an increase in n-butyric acid in colon contents (P < 0·05)."

researchgate.net/publicatio...

and_immunological_variables_in_piglets_after_weaning

"These results suggested that ethanol extract of fenugreek leaf is not only an important source for antibacterial components but also a potential source of phenolic antioxidants."

scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=...

The following article is the manditory/super important study I spoke of and I hope everyone on this site would read it.

The Potential of Butyric Acid as an Alternative Treatment for Parkinson’s Disease

foundationalmedicinereview....

What is missing from this outstanding article? Butryic acid kills enterobacteriaceae bacteria.

Gut microbiota are related to Parkinson's disease and clinical phenotype

"On average, the abundance of Prevotellaceae in feces of PD patients was reduced by 77.6% as compared with controls. Relative abundance of Prevotellaceae of 6.5% or less had 86.1% sensitivity and 38.9% specificity for PD. A logistic regression classifier based on the abundance of four bacterial families and the severity of constipation identified PD patients with 66.7% sensitivity and 90.3% specificity. The relative abundance of Enterobacteriaceae was positively associated with the severity of postural instability and gait difficulty.

These findings suggest that the intestinal microbiome is altered in PD and is related to motor phenotype."

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

Bacterial Strains - Enterobacteriaceae (Gram Negative Bacilli)

"Large family of Gram-negative bacteria that includes many of the more familiar pathogens, such as Salmonella, Escherichia coli, Yersinia pestis, Klebsiella and Shigella, Proteus, Enterobacter, Serratia, and Citrobacter."

globalrph.com/bacterial-str...

Supplementation of Coated Butyric Acid in the Feed Reduces Colonization and Shedding of Salmonella in Poultry

pdfs.semanticscholar.org/02...

"The results showed that 0.4% butyrate in the diet was similar to antibiotic in maintaining body weight gain and reducing E. coli numbers but superior for feed conversion ratio."

scribd.com/document/2916340...

In summation, in addition of raising testosterone levels, fenugreek has prebiotic effect thus promoting 'good' butyric acid-producing bacteria. Additional information about butyric acid, sodium butyrate and phenylbutyrate is posted in my video 'Coffee and Cigarettes'.

vimeopro.com/user60766261/r...

In the important article (I hope you read) stated that both niacin and butyric acid bind to Niacin Receptor 1 - GPR109a, and this is why I recommend 250 mg/day of niacin. There is an article with more information about niacin/butyric acid and GPR109a.

researchgate.net/publicatio...

I previously posted information on butyric acid and I did so because I think taking microencapsulated butyric acid is one of the best therapies for PD - even better than high dose thiamine (4,000 mg/day).

I hope this helps.

Rich

PS. BUTYCAPS

eliehs.com/product/butycaps

[Gioc in reply to silvestrov]

Thank you Rich.

This is very interesting like everything you write here, but I dont understand what is the best way to take the fenugreek? capsules or fresh or other to have a probiotic effect from fenugreek?

[Despe in reply to silvestrov]

Thank you, Rich!! You're tops! The scientist of our forum.

As I mentioned no PD meds yet (and to be honest, don't think he will ever use them--as much as I can help it). Is it still OK to take just the supplements?

Right now, my husband is following FM practitioner's vitamin protocol along with diet and exercise. He had a NutrEval test a couple of days ago and the results will determine his FM doctor's final protocol. Results in 4 weeks!!

[silvestrov in reply to Despe]

If he is responding well to supplements keep using them. The problem is which ones to use? As everyone on this site has noticed/experienced the variability of reactions to sinemet, vitamins, minerals....is completely all over the place. Parkinson's disease is a neurological condition which demands individualized medicine thus the reason why so many people on here are experimenting with thiamine, mannitol.....some react well, some not at all. Never the less, butyric acid, fenugreek, niacin all have solid scientific reasons for their use in PD therapy and I recommend them all.

[Despe in reply to silvestrov]

The supplements the doctor prescribed are for liver detox support (pelvic floor rehab as she wrote). Once we get the specialized test results back, she will adjust/change the protocol.

List of vitamins she prescribed:

Betaine HCL Pepsin

Hepato-Thera Forte

L-Glutamine powder

Magnesium Glycinate (I also use Magnesium Oil)

EPA/DHA

The Whole Probiotic

Vits D/C

CoQ10

Homocysteine Supreme

Liposomal Glutathione

Diet: elimination of grains, legumes and starchy veggies (I don't quite agree here as I know legumes are good for PD). She actually wants him to go keto, but again after receipt of test results.

Later (after receipt of test results), I will ask the doctor to add what you highly recommend.

Thank you!!

PS. He has been using Mannitol for about a month, no noticeable changes except his RH tremor is a lot better. Don't know where to attribute to.

[silvestrov]

I would take Fenugreek in the 300 mg capsule form like the PD study. Using standardized supplements gives you a specific amount of the herb's chemicals (a guarantee of potency) whilst eating Fenugreek gives you an uncertain/undefined amount of herbal alkaloids, etc which could vary from day to day. There is a debate in the natural health community in regards to using the whole herb versus a standardized supplement. I come down on the side of using a standardized supplement because many supplements reflect clinical studies using the same herb - it takes the guess work out of using a supplement. The following is a statement on why a company does not use a standardized olive leaf extract (I have taken a standardized olive leaf extract):

A Statement Concerning Oleuropein % and Standardization

seagateproducts.com/index.p...

If a standardized extract, like Fenugreek, in this case, has been shown to be effective at 300 mg twice a day, I would use this dosage. Secondly some herbal ingredients need to be taken at higher concentrations to be adequately absorbed, like Milk thistle:

"Because absorption of silymarin from the gastrointestinal tract is only moderate (23-47%), it is best administered as a standardized extract of 70-80 percent silymarin."

altmedrev.com/archive/publi...

And there is a supplement which reflect the 70-80% silymarin concentrations (I take it and its cheap):

swansonvitamins.com/swanson...

Interestingly I did a search for this response which questions if Fenugreek actually increases testosterone levels and the results have been inconsistent. According to the following article the author claims:

"Because of this significant increase in total and free testosterone without a corresponding increase in DHT and estradiol, fenugreek appears to inhibit (but incompletely) aromatase and 5α-reductase activity."

nutrientjournal.com/fenugre...

And guess what?

".... fenugreek appears to inhibit (but incompletely) aromatase and 5α-reductase activity."

The 5α-reductase inhibitor Dutasteride but not Finasteride protects dopamine neurons in the MPTP mouse model of Parkinson's disease

researchgate.net/publicatio...

But then again....

"These data demonstrate that aromatase inhibition increases serum bioavailable and total testosterone levels to the youthful normal range in older men with mild hypogonadism. Serum estradiol levels decrease modestly but remain within the normal male range. The physiological consequences of these changes remain to be determined."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/150...

Anyway you look at Fenugreek....a prebiotic, a 5α-reductase inhibitor, testosterone or not, it is good for PD.

PS. perhaps it is Fenugreen's anticholineserase activity???

sciencedirect.com/science/a...