Heinz Amino Acid Protocal

[maryalice]

I am using some amino acids and have seen some improvement. I would like to know if anyone has used the Heinz protocol using amino acids under a doctor's supervision.

Thanks.

[Xenos]

Isn't it Marty "Hinz" ?

[maryalice in reply to Xenos]

I've seen it spelled both ways in the literature that I've been reading. I also didn't spell protocol correctly in the question? Sorry, it was late and I was rushed.

Do you have an answer to my question?

[Xenos in reply to maryalice]

Sorry no. I just read about it and will follow your thread.

[Harleybob08]

Hi there,

I have been on this protocol for a year or so, and it works fine. Not perfect, but the symptoms are minimal and Aminos are much more body-friendly than Carbidopa .

[maryalice in reply to Harleybob08]

Did you use a doctor or health professional to help you with the balance of the different amino acids?

[Harleybob08 in reply to maryalice]

Yes. dr. Ron Cargioli in Indiana.

[HeartSong in reply to Harleybob08]

Harleybob08, did you take conventional PD meds before you went on the Heinz protocol? If so, how do the symptoms that you have now compare to the symptoms you had on the conventional meds?

Another question: can you tell us approximately how much you spend on the Heinz protocol per month?

Thanks.

[Harleybob08 in reply to HeartSong]

No, never on meds.

£100

[SKCW in reply to Harleybob08]

Hi Harleybob,

So my Mom is now on 15mg and the below:

Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 500mg

Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride) 37.5

Folate (as folic acid) 200 mcg

Calcium (as calcium citrate) 110 mg

L- Lysine (as l-lysine hydrochloride) 250 mg

5-Hydroxytryptophan (from Griffonia

simplicifolia seed extract) 150 mg

L- Tyrosine 1500mg

She was doing fine, but is now vomiting three times a day. Did you experience this while climbing your levels?

Many thanks,

Sarah

[Harleybob08 in reply to SKCW]

Some nausea, but nowhere near vomiting.

You seem light on the LDopa. Most folks end up between 2g and 7g per day, assuming you are using 100% ldopa and 5HTP. The 5HTP should control the nausea, but has to be found by trial and error.

I’m no expert though, I was glad to find a doc who knew a bit about it.

Sorry I can’t be more help,

Regards

[SKCW in reply to Harleybob08]

Thank you very much for your input. It's tough trying to figure which one to increase, and that's helpful info to think about. Also, it's helpful to know that you didn't have vomiting! I wish you the happiest new year, Sarah

[movinngroovin]

I tried it several years ago before DBS. it caused me to projectile vomit so I had to stop!

[maryalice in reply to movinngroovin]

Were you under a doctors supervision?

[movinngroovin in reply to maryalice]

A chiropractor & an accupuncturist

[maryalice in reply to movinngroovin]

Thanks.

[lempa_nik]

Hi Maryalice,

If you turn Dr. Marty Hinz into a tomato ketchup, he won't be pleased. Yes, in answer to your question, I have been on the Hinz protocol for 1 year and 10 months, with good results. Did not have any problem with nausea except for a few minutes the first time I took the supplements. The relief I get from the protocol is comparable to that I got previously from Sinemet (one 25/100 CD/LD tablet per day--a lot of "off" time, but I wanted to keep PD meds to a minimum) and Azilect (1 mg/day). I did the protocol-remotely via telemedicine--under Alvin Stein MD (research colleague fo Dr, HInz) originally for one year, and then, when he passed on, I was transferred over to Dr. Chad Oler, a very smart, and highly professional naturopath, who also offers telemedicine.

[nelo23 in reply to lempa_nik]

I recently started Dr Hinz protocol under a medical doctor in Lubbock, Texas. Dr Ben Edwards.

How much mucuna are you taking and what is your monthly cost? I am currently at 14.4 grams at a cost of about $800 per month.

[AmyLindy in reply to nelo23]

Dang! $800/MO for product only? Reality check.Noted & Thanks

[SKCW in reply to nelo23]

HI Nelo23,

Are you having any nausea? My mom has hit 15gm of Mucuna along with:

Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 500mg

Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride) 37.5

Folate (as folic acid) 200 mcg

Calcium (as calcium citrate) 110 mg

L- Lysine (as l-lysine hydrochloride) 250 mg

5-Hydroxytryptophan (from Griffonia

simplicifolia seed extract) 150 mg

L- Tyrosine 1500mg

She is throwing up a lot. Have you had this? Are you pleased still with the therapy? Many thanks for your thoughts,

Sarah

[AmyLindy in reply to lempa_nik]

Dr Chad Oler: What city and State, please?

[lempa_nik in reply to AmyLindy]

AmyLindy, Dr. Oler is in Madison, WI, but that doesn't matter at all since he provides remote treatment and it's just as good no matter if you live at the North Pole (so long as they have internet/email and postal service there.). My average cost, everything included, has been $500/month, not the $800 you mention. FInd hIm online at naturalpathhealthcenter.com

Phone no. = 608-274-7044

[maryalice]

Thank you for answering my question. I've been communicating with Dr Chad Older. I had to fill out a` form to see if I would be a good candidate. His office is going to get back to me and let me know. I appreciate your help.

I'll think about Dr. Hinz every time I eat some french fries.

[researchfiend in reply to maryalice]

FWIW, I looked at the website, and Oler seems like a classic overcharging scammer.

[Hikoi]

You must make a one year commitment to this therapy.

Cost is $3,600 for one year plus the cost of your amino acid supplements** (ave. cost for Parkinson's nutrition $300-$500 per month)

Your $3,600 payment includes:

-all necessary lab testing

-all doctor consults

-all shipping costs for recommended supplements

**In addition to $3,600, Patient must sign an agreement to only purchase amino acid supplements from our clinic

Cargioli clinc siite

[nelo23 in reply to Hikoi]

How much Mucuna are you taking? I am only at 14.4 grams a day and already the cost just for the Mucuna is $750. That's $63 a bottle for 120 capsules (300 MG each).

[lempa_nik in reply to nelo23]

"COST OF AMINO ACID THERAPY"

Hi Nelo, I am taking 3 g X 3/day, or 9.0 g per day of D5 Mucuna powder. At that rate one cannister of Mucuna (= 270 gm, $218) will last me 30 days and cost $218/30days. I have just done a careful accounting of all charges over a 10 month period , where one month is defined as 30 days. My total cost with Dr. Chad Oler--including supplements (with shipping fee and sales tax), urine tests, and phone consults--has averaged to $483/month, or, in other words less than $500 per month.

Assuming Dr. Edwards charges similar prices to Dr. Oler, you will find that the cannisters of Mucuna are about half as expensive as the capsules: your capsules cost $1.75 /gram, but the powder costs only $0. 808/gram. If you get the powder, however, you'll need a digital scale to measure out the exact amount.

I bought off Amazon an excellent little scale which measures in 0.1 gram increments, namely

amazon.com/Escali-PR500S-Pr...

Actually. if you want to measure the amount correct to about 10%--good enough for all practical purposes--no scale is necessary; all you need is a teaspoon. My repeated experience is that one level tsp. of Mucuna powder weighs 2.4 grams, so 6 level/"shaved" tsp. will get you to precisely 14.4 grams. I mix the power in apple sauce to make it palatable. Good luck.

[maryalice in reply to lempa_nik]

I am just starting with Dr Oler. I am waiting to get a phone call about whether or not I qualify. I am using mucuna powder now, which I ordered from Amazon. It is much more reasonable then what his office sells it for. Do you know if all supplements and mucuna have to be ordered through his office? Can you start out using the powder instead of the capsules?

Thanks for the clarification about the cost per month. I appreciate your help.

[lempa_nik in reply to maryalice]

"THERE"S A REASON FOR TAKING STANDARDIZED MUCUNA IN THE HINZ PROTOCOL"

Maryalice,

Sure, powder is the same whether encapsulated or taken straight.

Dr. Hinz and colleagues originally allowed patients to buy Mucuna over the counter (OTC) "from the local drug store."

But they discovered that the results of their therapy became unpredictable; they then realized that the commonly available mucuna was not at all trustworthy or of known strength. This forced them to develop a pure, high-potency Mucuna powder, standardized to contain 40% L-Dopa. Henceforth patients were required to take this standardized extract, "40% D5 Mucuna."

So yes, you can find cheaper Mucuna OTC, but you get what you pay for. And notwithstanding claims on the label such as "15% L-Dopa," you don't know if it that is correct. No reputable provider of AAT will consent to treat you under these flakey, uncontrolled circumstances. They would be wasting their time and yours. Adjustment of your dosage would become totally hit or miss.

[maryalice in reply to lempa_nik]

Thanks for the information.

[researchfiend in reply to maryalice]

I guarantee you that everyone who is willing to overpay this guy "qualifies."

[nelo23 in reply to lempa_nik]

Thanks for the information. I had not been told that the pills were more expensive than the powder.

[SKCW in reply to lempa_nik]

Dear Dumplekin, Although I have posted on the general community post, I wanted to be sure to see if I could get your input on my mom's situation. Though she was doing well on lower doses, they have bumped up her amino acid protocol to 15gms/day and the following:

Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 500mg

Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride) 37.5

Folate (as folic acid) 200 mcg

Calcium (as calcium citrate) 110 mg

L- Lysine (as l-lysine hydrochloride) 250 mg

5-Hydroxytryptophan (from Griffonia

simplicifolia seed extract) 150 mg

L- Tyrosine 1500mg

Now she is throwing up three times a day and losing weight. They want to keep increasing the above combo to see if it gets her in balance, but I think we should back off the doses of everything. May I ask your thoughts?

Many thanks and happy new year,

Sarah

[lempa_nik in reply to SKCW]

Sarah,

It is not clear what you are including in the words "amino acid protocol" but if this refers specifically to Mucuna 40%, 15 gm/day is a normal sort of dose. My naturopath, Dr. Chad Oler told me that most of his PD patients take 20-40 gm/day of Mucuna. However Dr. Oler said that it must be divided into doses less than 6 gm each, or else there is "tummy upset' (nausea and vomitting.) So, for your mom, 15 gm should be taken in 3 or more separate doses.

I cannot know what is the correct regimen for your Mom, but, relative to my experience, the values you quote are VERY suspicious. What you quoted equals the content of 4 caps of NeuroReplete. I take 2 caps /day, half as much as that, so yours is in the ballpark and does not raise any red flags.

But what is alarming is this: there is no mention of the CysReplete, or additional Tyrosine and B6. These are standard, essential parts of the AA regimen. To give you an idea, I take daily;

Mucuna -9 gm,

NeuroReplete--2 caps,

CysReplete--6 caps

Tyrosine powder-- 6 tbsp. (or 27 gm = 27,000 mg)

Vit B6 (i.e., P5P)-- 200 mg.

I have to assume that you have overlooked some of the stuff she is taking. But if not, and that is her actual prescription, then her provider is a charlatan/quack who does not at all understand the Hinz protocol. And inevitably with such an unbalanced regimen--in particular, way too little Tyrosine--GI issues are expected.

Backing off is a realistic option. Coincidentally, I just did so myself. To get a better response (w/o "fluctuations"), Dr. Oler asked me to increase progressively, step-wise, both my Tyrosine and Mucuna. I tried higher doses of both, but it just did not feel right. I was up to 7 tbsp of Tyrosine and 12.6 gm of Mucuna. Trouble was when I would come to the "off" phase of the meds--as they would get used up in my brain--it's not just that my tremors would come back, but I had a very antsy, jumpy, restless feeling in my left arm or leg. Very unpleasant! So I backed up -- de-escalated by 2 steps--back to where I am now, and the terrible antsy feeling went away. So backing up may be a very good option. Don't be afraid to reduce these supplements. And do find out if your provider knows what he is doing!

[SKCW in reply to lempa_nik]

Thanks very much! I will ask about this right away. It really helps to talk to someone else who is doing this kind of thing. I appreciate your time and help,

Sarah

[nelo23]

I just started the protocol with Dr Ben Edwards in Lubbock, Texas. He is a medical doctor with Veritos Medical.

[maryalice in reply to nelo23]

Have you noticed any difference? How long have you had PD?

[nelo23 in reply to maryalice]

Dx in Aug 2016

[maryalice]

Please let me know how it works out for you. I need to find a doctor who does it over the Internet. Do you know if your doctor does? Thanks.

[nelo23 in reply to maryalice]

I don't know, write them, this is their email address.

[e-mail]

[nelo23 in reply to nelo23]

Also, on facebook at Veritas Medical

[maryalice]

Thank you.

[bassofspades]

Im doing the Hinz protocol under a Dr's supervision. Been on it for 4 weeks, still dialing in the dosage. The first week was the lowest dose, 2 Neuroreplete, 6 Cysreplete, and 9 D5 Mucuna each day (total). We upped the D5 each week by 3 pills per day for 2 two weeks, did a pill stop and now we're lowering the dose each week. Trying to find the sweet spot. I did best on the first week's dosage, so I think we'll wind up around there ultimately. Its not the miracle I expected but I did feel much more energy and stamina as well as mental clarity. The higher dosages actually increased my tremors. I will follow up as things get more situated.

Say NO to drugs!

[JBnSFO in reply to bassofspades]

Bass ... or anybody doing the Hinz protocol -- QUESTION:

When you do a Pill Stop, does you Dr. instruct you to stop taking all aminos (including NeuroReplete and CysReplete) or just the mucuna?

[bassofspades in reply to JBnSFO]

All

[SKCW in reply to bassofspades]

HI bassofspades,

Although I have posted on the general community post, I wanted to be sure to see if I could get your input on my mom's situation. Though she was doing well on lower doses, they have bumped up her amino acid protocol to 15gms/day and the following:

Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 500mg

Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride) 37.5

Folate (as folic acid) 200 mcg

Calcium (as calcium citrate) 110 mg

L- Lysine (as l-lysine hydrochloride) 250 mg

5-Hydroxytryptophan (from Griffonia

simplicifolia seed extract) 150 mg

L- Tyrosine 1500mg

Now she is throwing up three times a day and losing weight. They want to keep increasing the above combo to see if it gets her in balance, but I think we should back off the doses of everything. May I ask your thoughts?

What was the dosage in grams/mg that you ended up staying at now?

Many thanks and happy new year,

Sarah

[bassofspades in reply to SKCW]

I have seen this situation. The patients dose is increased, they feel like heck but without batting an eye the Dr increases the dose yet again. Hang in there for one or two more weeks, you can expect it to get much better from this point!

Take a look - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Please keep us posted!

And for further reading:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

healthyselfnow.com/MTOproto...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

For myself, I take 600mg equivalent of L-Dopa with Mucuna, plus all that other stuff, per day. They raised my dose several times and I did worse as well. To be honest, I backed it off mostly because I have a young family and cant afford to take more than I am taking, but if I increased the dose a few more times I would probably be doing even better. Im at a point where I feel good enough that I can go to work and do my job. Still struggling with handwriting for the most part, as well as some rigidity and achiness, but I dont tremble at all and my brain fog and anxiety level are down to nothing.

[SKCW in reply to bassofspades]

Thank you so much for this. It's always hard to know if one should push through to that promised "ON" or back down because it feels so bad. It really helps to talk to someone who knows the basics of this playing field. Thank you and Happy New Year. I wish you a steady hand and less achiness,

Sarah

[Santafe2014 in reply to bassofspades]

Brain fog? I have severe head pressure is that what u mean

[bassofspades in reply to Santafe2014]

Brain fog = trouble concentrating, cloudy thoughts

[Hidden in reply to bassofspades]

Bass,

Which doctor?

[bassofspades in reply to Hidden]

Which dr what? Increased the dose? Dr Marty Hinz or any dr trained in the amino acid protocol.

[Hidden in reply to bassofspades]

Which doctor is monitoring you now that Dr. R passed away?

[bassofspades in reply to Hidden]

Im giving my original neurologist another shot. Im not really confident in him but his nurse practitioner is very empathetic at least. We're currently experimenting with different drugs and im experimenting with b1, iodine and lithium supplements. They advised me to switch from the Hinz protocol to the traditional meds. Im trying it for 2 reasons. Its cheaper and Dr Costantini says as long as i take b1 I'll never get side effects. At first the transition was difficult. Symptoms worsened. But after 2 months and an increase in b1 im starting to do better. Still a work in progress!!

[maryalice]

Thanks for the input.

[bassofspades]

Im down to 6 Mucuna capsules per day. I consider myself very lucky. Next pill stop will be in a week but im pretty sure this is my dose thats going to work. Once we're sure, he'll switch me to powder. He says when taking powdered mucuna its 1/3 less. And cheaper.

[Santafe2014 in reply to bassofspades]

Whose he?

[bassofspades in reply to Santafe2014]

My doctor, dr S. Todd Robinson of Lakeland, Florida. Unfortunately he passed away a year ago .

[maryalice]

I am glad that you are doing so well.