ATOS/DWP CMT

[pappysean]

is any one interested in taking the Work Capability Assessment to court as being inadequate and unfit to assess those with CMT (of course it is unfit, flawed, and brutal across the board)?

[PhilC]

I don't consider ATOS is the right organisation to carry out the assessments but equally it is clear the Government needs to introduce some mechanism to sort the wheat from the chaff as far as welfare payments are concerned. G.P's are not suitable as they have too close a relationship with the patient and generally don't want to get into a confrontational situation with their patient. Sadly there are so many people unjustifiably drawing benefit the govenment has to do something to cut the demand and cost as we, as a nation, cannot afford the continued rise in expenditure plus it is drawing scarce resources away from people who are in desperate need.

Just having a neurological disease like CMT should not automatically exempt the person from the assessment programme or entitle them to benefits, each case needs to be assessed fairly on it's merits.

In the majority of cases CMT sufferers can contribute something to society if not a full 8 hours a day at least a few hours each week in paid employment or voluntary work.

[pappysean in reply to PhilC]

you write "Sadly there are so many people unjustifiably drawing benefit the govenment has to do something to cut the demand and cost as we, as a nation" the DWP's own statistics state that less than 0.05 of a percent of all benefit claimants submit fraudulent claims, of that 0,05 of a percent the disability related freud must be unimaginably small. So why mention it as a factor at all. You write "govenment has to do something to cut the demand and cost as we, as a nation, cannot afford the continued rise in expenditure plus it is drawing scarce resources away from people who are in desperate need. " I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this point. I can think of easier ways for the government and the nation to save money"...I would think the disabled whose benefits are being cut or removed entirely are those in "desperate need".

"In the majority of cases CMT sufferers can contribute something to society if not a full 8 hours a day at least a few hours each week in paid employment or voluntary work." I agree. Where do I say that individuals with CMT cannot work by virtue of having CMT. Where do I say they cannot contribute. I do not say anything of the sort nor do I imply it. I have a MA. I don't feel myself unable to contribute. But my condition is such that I can't just do any old work in any old work situation. I personally couldn't do a full day. Others could do more or less that I thought went without saying. In the model of disability being used and the system being rolled out by the DWP we're not talking about a choice to work a few hours instead of a day or a few days, in many instances we are talking about that choice being removed and being replaced with no choice whatsoever based on a flawed assessment process.

"Just having a neurological disease like CMT should not automatically exempt the person from the assessment programme or entitle them to benefits, each case needs to be assessed fairly on it's merits." I think you're missing the point somewhat about the quality of the work Atos are doing for the DWP. I shouldn't need to explain.

[spabbygirl]

The problem with ATOS doing it with this Government is they humiliate and intimidate people in an effort to make people work or loose benefits. I have no problem with an assessment of what people can do when claiming benefits as this can lead to help at work, as I've had various bits of equipment in the past. But what is happening is the humiliation and intimidation of huge groups of people honestly claiming what they need. There always will be a few people claiming more, and a few people who refuse to claim anything even though they are entitled, but the figures show that is less than 1% for DLA and probably isn't much different for sickness benefits.

I would happily be a case study because as a society needs to know what this Gov't's shoddy practices and ill thought through policies actually mean for those on the receiving end, but I don't claim that benefit.

I wish you well in finding someone though.

[pappysean in reply to spabbygirl]

Thank you kindly.

[bev5985]

Just having CMT should not mean you are unfit for work it would depend on your level of disabiliity. I have severe mobility problems but manage to work part time with the aid of crutches and an understanding employer. I work every other day so I have rest days inbetween. I think you may find it difficult to take action just based on CMT generally because it affects each person differently . Good luck if you manage to do so though

[pappysean]

"I think you may find it difficult to take action just based on CMT generally because it affects each person differently." I think that would be my point, but then isn't that the case with every other disability also?

"Just having CMT should not mean you are unfit for work it would depend on your level of disabiliity." I think you're missing my point by a country mile. Don't you know what is going on with Atos and the DWP? Do you think the Work Capability Assessment is the right way to judge if a person with a complexed disability is fit for work or not? I am not against an assessment per se, and nor do I think an indvidual is unfit for work purely by virture that they have been diagnosed with CMT. I do however think the system is corrupt and abusive and misrepresents the disabled.

[bev5985 in reply to pappysean]

You state ""I think you may find it difficult to take action just based on CMT generally because it affects each person differently." I think that would be my point, but then isn't that the case with every other disability also?

"Just having CMT should not mean you are unfit for work it would depend on your level of disabiliity." I think you're missing my point by a country mile. Don't you know what is going on with Atos and the DWP? Do you think the Work Capability Assessment is the right way to judge if a person with a complexed disability is fit for work or not? I am not against an assessment per se, and nor do I think an indvidual is unfit for work purely by virture that they have been diagnosed with CMT. I do however think the system is corrupt and abusive and misrepresents the disabled."

Yes I am well aware what is going on with ATOS and the DWP - this is because my husband is on ESA and hasz been for the last 3 years - During that time he had had to have 4 medicals with ATOS and yes we had to appeal against their decision on each occasion and our appeal was upheld. I am not saying that the ATOS Assessment is not flawed - I totally agree that it is. I personally feel that reports should be obtained from GP and Specialists before even considering sending you for assessment. However, the situation cannot continue in its present state I am well aware that many people that have been on the old IB system have been claiming IB benefits for upwards of 15 years and during that time they have only had one medical and have not been required to submit Sick notes (or Fit notes as they are now called). One person that I am aware of has been for a recent ATOS medical and yes you guessed it he scored NIL points - I am closely associated with this person through friendship and I can honestly say that yes during the last 15 years he could have worked full time and personally i believe that although he initially was off work with "stress" this has not affected him for at least the last 14 years or so but he seemed to have "slipped through the net". My argument with ATOS is that they seem to have been targeting initially the people who were recently put on ESA instead of starting with the old IB claimants.

I still believe that action could not be taken just because you have CMT there would also need to be other underlying causes but feel free to speak to someone who will offer you free legal advice. Because CMT varies so much from individual to individual to may be very hard to get such a group together who can afford legal fees

[Barry52]

Fully aware and supportive of medical examinations however if ATOS are found to be incorrect after a successful appeal by a claimant then all costs of that appeal should be claimed back from ATOS and not the taxpayer,this then will ensure ATOs tries harder to get it right because to the private sector THE PROFITS COME BEFORE PEOPLE

[pappysean in reply to Barry52]

the assessments are not actually 'medical examinations' though Barry not in the strictest sense, rather they are some odd bureaucratic pseudo-medical hybrid that the boss of the DWP cannot even define without it sounding preposterous...I certainly don't know what to call them. but, yes, what you say would be a way to progress...

[quantumfaerie]

Clause 99

I believe this Clause has been introduced recently. Allegedly, it is going to make the Appeal Process practically impossible, or at the very least, unworkable. This is because there will be no set time limit on DWP for the processing of appeals! Which means that Appeal Applicants could be waiting FOREVER to state their case before an Appeal Panel! Any further info about this will be greatly appreciated.

[quantumfaerie]

I've just created a Facebook Page - 'Friends and Families of ATOS Victims and Casualties'. The main purpose of this page is to collect photos of all the people who have died since being declared 'Fit for Work' by ATOS. Please 'like' this page if you see fit - all comments welcome.

[quantumfaerie]

The correct Facebook page is: Friends & Families of ATOS/DWP Victims & Casualties

[quantumfaerie]

Clause 99

I believe this Clause has been introduced recently. Allegedly, it is going to make the Appeal Process practically impossible, or at the very least, unworkable. This is because there will be no set time limit on DWP for the processing of appeals! Which means that Appeal Applicants could be waiting FOREVER to state their case before an Appeal Panel! Any further info about this will be greatly appreciated.

[Barry52]

The MS society has the Clout and money to take on these organisations, sadly and no offence CMT have not got this power or the will to take on the big boys

[pappysean]

..people have power Barry, we have to remember that...one shouldn't rely on an organization to fight the injustices one comes across in society...if they help of course, then that is nice, but personally no body has ever fought my battles for me...

[Barry52]

Well said

[Jud61]

PhilC.

I take offence to your comments. Do you have any experience of people with CMT? Even top neurologists will tell you that CMT can vary greatly in it's severity even within members of the same family. I can bear witness to this as my sister did not contract the disease until her late 30's when I got it at 11. My sister had a huge trauma which also goes along with what neurologists say can worsen it. My mother is very severely handicapped by the disease in her 80's with swallowing and breathing problems that went diagnosed as Asthma and COPD for over 20 Years. Now she is being told by her cancer doctors investigations that her breathing problems were due to muscle weakness all along CAUSED by the CMT and as said above seems to again go along with the 'no two are the same' theory as other members of the family do not have this but I do. I have myself become wheelchair bound over the last 10 years yet other family members walk with a cane. Also my hands are much worse than some family members and other people with CMT I have seen. So please do not tar us all with the same brush and neither should ATOS. We are not lazy or workshy as I worked for over 25 years before being forced to stop, but it's just some of us get worse and become incapable of doing a job right now and we deserve to be treated with respect!

[pappysean in reply to Jud61]

well said. it is pretty much the same with my family. my mother died in here 40s, complications due to the condition, my siblings walk with canes, I do not, yet...but that I fear is just around the next bend. some of use have severe scoliosis, as I do, some do not. one of my nieces, not yet 30, is already in a wheel chair. my hands are also better than most of the family, but that is going rapidly, now that I am in my 40s...

best wishes, I am glad there is some unity here.