Bird flu virus in cattle - milk/cheese implications?

[Shedman]

Neil recently wrote about risks from bacteria in kimchi and unpasteurised cheese..

healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

Perhaps someone else has already written of bird flu infection in cows?

I presume that this has several implications:

- increased risks of unpasteurised milk and cheese

- greater caution for those living in proximity if farms.. eg. use air purifier filtering devices at home; consider use cases of respirators

I don't want to think of wildlife and rural life involving risks, but I'm long aware of insect vectors, such as mosquitoes, ticks, horse flies..

Considering adding rare instances of proximity to cattle herds / farms; viruses are often airborne..

No impact on quality of life, just awareness for my own safety to avoid new infection risks - precautionary approach.

Update 7Apr24, 9pm: thx for replies.

My thoughts: public health used to be highly trusted for disease/infection rate monitoring and guiding vaccine/vaccination strategy and efforts. In many countries, PH has lost trusted status during the pandemic, perhaps lost its way.. and vaccination rates have fallen due to disinformation (eg. measles / MMR) -- vey bad news for CLL'ers here.

I encourage awareness of the situation in your country/state - establish who to trust, and to use the precautionary principle to guide you rather than PH or political optimism.

The biggest gift is understanding airborne germs - if I had farms nearby and upwind of me, I'd be more concerned.. and use more air purifiers.

Elderly friend, 92, uses an air purifier in his care home flat.. I think he's wise.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator]

The New Scientist recently reported that "One person in the US has contracted bird flu after being exposed to dairy cows that have the virus, but experts say there is no immediate threat of a wider outbreak in people.

:

Right now the bigger concern is not having enough information to anticipate how the virus may act next."

So more "Watch and Wait".

Neil

[Shedman in reply to AussieNeil]

The lack of information - uncertainty of how things will go, whether human to human transmission arises - is reason to be precautionary, ready to use N95 or FFP2+ respirator and improve workplace and home air filtration as mitigation of risk from all airborne germs.

[Shooey]

I read yesterday that it is airborne, at least that’s recognised at the outset!

I’m not sure if this relates to the UK but apparently of concern is that cattle can be fed chicken droppings as part of their diet and this could possibly be where the transfer from birds to cattle comes in.

Anyway, I’m going to try and wean myself off milk in my morning cuppa as a start! I know there are lots of alternatives out there just need to experiment and see which is the least distasteful!

I will also switch to goats cheese which I don’t mind.

Possibly over reacting? I think I’d rather start taking precautions just in case. However I do agree with you that for those of us who live in rural areas air filtration is a good idea, will also help with harmful pesticides which continue to be used.

Best wishes

Shooey

[KatieBlue in reply to Shooey]

I haven’t had time to thoroughly look into this, but read that avian flu is spreading to goats in US also. And cats— it hits cats particularly hard.

Recommendation, too, is for fully cooked eggs— no runny yolks, etc…

I’ll be looking for more info about the goats. .

[KatieBlue in reply to Shooey]

Goat in Minnesota test positive for HPAI

“In early March, the farm owner notified the MBAH of unusual deaths of newly kidded goats on the property where a backyard poultry flock had been depopulated due to HPAI in February. The goats and poultry had access to the same space, including a shared water source.”

Chicken to goat transmission, not goat to goat. Mention of the kids being more susceptible as their immune systems aren't fully developed.

avma.org/news/goat-minnesot...

[CoachVera55 in reply to Shooey]

Homemade Nut Milks are easy & delicious 😋

[Shedman in reply to CoachVera55]

But *look out* any with kidney issues..Nuts tend to be high in oxalates, almonds highest of all, and these may invite worsening of kidney issues..

See also spinach

[CoachVera55 in reply to Shedman]

😳😳😳 Sorry

[Shedman in reply to CoachVera55]

Don't worry, mentioned it only in rounding the topic; nutrition is a complex beastie!

I used to resent the "balanced diet - a little of everything" formula of what is healthy, but there is a lot of truth to it..

Excess of any single food is more likely unhealthy than good.. some intersections/interactions of nutrition are not at all intuitive, nor taught at school, nor learned during meals in childhood.

(NB. Kidney friendly diet?

There are lots of these - they vary according to particular kidney issues, and stage of ckd.. it's not one magical formula.

Awareness of oxalates in foods will help some people.)

[CoachVera55 in reply to Shedman]

Yes indeed!!! We (The USA) learnt about Nutrition from the Marketing TV Network Geniuses with the catchest Jingles, just excellent for brain washing

Nutrition is another subject kin to religion & politics. I just know for me that a Wholefood Plantbased Organic Diet with Intermittent Fasting works best. And since my energy level fluctuates I just keep it simple, the more RAW & Juicing I do the better…

And since my doctors rather give me steroids instead of the antibiotics I needed, I got 30lbs to drop. 5lbs are gone so far with my mostly non-weight bearing options but I will still count my blessings. I am the proven certified expert when it comes to me. I got sick 2X this year, when I started treatment & when I increased the dose🤷🏽‍♀️

When Solomon said that there is nothing new under Sun, he was so right. It doesn’t matter the new research or studies for me, I need immediate antibiotics when I get sick which is not often. If you let it linger, I will suffer🤬

I’m in so much pain now & I don’t even want to take pain meds or muscle relaxants but that is what is needed so I can workout & lose the weight. I ice, elevate & rest afterwards but I can’t rest well with this excess weight. So this is my Rehab Season, I’ve been here before, I have everything I need with Homegym & workout routines from the Orthopedics. We are all on the same page of delaying/postponing this Hip Replacement so this weight must go🙌🏾

I know that I am totally off topic but just needed to vent about my truths 😂

[KatieBlue]

Not just unpasteurized milk is of concern, based on a study of pasteurization and foot and mouth disease.

Here is a copy paste of a tweet by Dr. Eric Ding about that study and it could have implications for avian flu:

“⚠️WAIT HOLD UP—Pasteurization of milk actually may **not** neutralize all viruses sufficiently to stop infectivity—“many viruses cannot”. It seems that fat globules in whole milk and 2% fat milk can protect viruses from high temperature pasteurization (dairy research shows for foot and mouth disease virus)—and show residual infectivity of the virus after pasteurization. ➡️My trusted colleague points out that the USDA & CDC has presented **zero evidence** avian flu cannot survive pasteurization in whole/2% fat milk🥛. He warns that until such evidence is shown, we need to be careful of USDA/CDC’s claims that virus in milk can “reliably” be neutralized via current pasteurization temperatures.”

Further down in the tweet thread, Dr. Ding also adds:

“Caveats:

the study in infectivity of pasteurized milk is for foot and mouth disease virus, not avian flu.

The infectivity is for injection of the milk into a naive uninfected steer, not ingestion of the milk orally.

We need true data on avian flu virus titer in pasteurized milk from USDA and CDC to know for sure.”

link to tweet; x.com/drericding/status/177...

link to foot and mouth disease/pasteurization study: journalofdairyscience.org/a...

Image 1 accompanying mentioned tweet

[KatieBlue in reply to KatieBlue]

This was also included in the first tweet mentioned above.

Image 2 accompanying mentioned tweet

[Shooey in reply to KatieBlue]

Hi Katie

Very many thanks for the info, especially Dr Dings comments, all very interesting. I hadn’t heard that infection had been found in goats and cats. Ah well there goes my goats cheese bruschetta!

I guess it’s just a case of keeping abreast of what information we are given and carrying out our own risk assessments as to whether or not we modify our diets going forward. Without getting into the realms of politics I don’t have the utmost faith that our UKHSA will advise in a timely manner.

Best wishes

Shooey

[KatieBlue in reply to Shooey]

Understand— I’ve lost faith in our US public health agencies also.

I believe the goat news article distinguished between adult goats (milk producers) and kids. That said, it feels like it’s a matter of when, not if.

Best wishes, Shooey.

[SeymourB]

Shedman -

I'm happy to see that a couple of days ago, they sequenced the RNA from the infected patient in Texas. This will allow tracking of variants, and creation of tests to confirm other infections.

cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/spotli...

Technical Update: Summary Analysis of Genetic Sequences of Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza A(H5N1) Viruses in Texas

"The protein products from the M (M1 and M2) and NS (N1 and N2) genes lacked markers associated with mammalian adaptation. Collectively, epidemiologic, and viral genomic analyses indicate that this case represents a single zoonotic event and while the HA lacked changes likely to enhance transmission to mammals, it did acquire substitutions in PB2 likely to enhance replication in mammals, which illustrates that we have to remain vigilant and continue to characterize zoonotic viruses.

Overall, the genomic analysis of the virus from this human case does not change CDC’s risk assessment related to the HPAI A(H5) clade 2.3.4.4b viruses. The overall risk to human health associated with the ongoing HPAI A(H5) outbreaks in poultry and detections in wild birds and cattle remains low.

Note: HPAI A(H5) viruses, predominantly HPAI A(H5N1) clade 2.3.4.4b viruses, have been circulating globally in wild birds in the U.S. since late 2021. These viruses have caused outbreaks in commercial and backyard poultry, with spillover resulting in sporadic infections in mammals."

So I'm thinking that it won't spread too quickly in normal humans without major mutations to the M (M1 and M2) and NS (N1 and N2) genes, but once infected, it will replicate in human cells, and they'll feel sick. The genetic changes to those genes are not likely to happen in birds, but are more likely in cows and humans. So keeping the spread to cows and other mammals seems to be a big issue.

OTOH, it will spread quickly in birds. It's already affected prices of poultry and eggs in the US.

The infamous 1918 Influenza likely started in birds, and then spread to pigs before leaping to humans.

I'll be looking forward to seeing in-vitro tests of randomply selected human antibodies against the virus.

=seymour=

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator]

From A person in Texas caught bird flu after mixing with dairy cattle. Should we be worried?

theconversation.com/a-perso...

How can we prevent a pandemic?

For now there is no spread of H5N1 between humans, so there’s no immediate risk of a pandemic.

However, we now have unprecedented and persistent infection with H5N1 clade 2.3.4.4b in farms, wild animals and a wider range of wild birds than ever before, creating more chances for H5N1 to mutate and cause a pandemic.

Unlike the previous epidemiology of avian flu, where hot spots were in Asia, the new hot spots (and likely sites of emergence of a pandemic) are in the Americas, Europe or in Africa.

Pandemics grow exponentially, so early warnings for animal and human outbreaks are crucial. We can monitor infections using surveillance tools such as our EPIWATCH platform.