Ivermectin and wbc

[mleo123]

I am on watch and wait. Fulky vaccinated with pfizer, got covid anyway, and took 3 days of ivermectin 25mg 2x per day. One month later my wbc dropped 10%. Has this happed to anyone else??? Or just a Coincidence??

[AussieNeil Administrator]

You've given insufficient information for any worthwhile response. There are 5 different white blood cell types that make up your WBC*. What actually changed to contribute to that 10% drop and what has been the pattern in your white blood cell counts beforehand, principally your neutrophil and lymphocyte counts? Further, a 10% drop in your WBC when it is over 200 is more remarkable than when it is under 20, where a 10% change is fairly common, particularly if you've been ill. Finally, WBC counts change during the day and can change significantly from day to day, let alone after a month.

* See: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

Neil

[schmitthj007]

Welcome to this form. I can see this is your first post from your profile. From you profile it looks like you are under the care of a hematologist possibly in the US based on the determination of of your mutation status. Sorry you had to deal with covid despite being vaccinated. How were your symptoms and did you recover fully? In respect to covid what was the recommendation for treatment by your treatment team? I can tell you when I was under treatment and caught influenza 3 years ago I got into trouble with my hematologist since I did not inform them immediately about the disease. Did your team recommend ivermectin? In respect to your WBC I have nothing more to add to Neil’s comment. All the best and stay well

[mleo123 in reply to schmitthj007]

Thank you. My Dr is a CLL specialist at Siteman cancer center in St louis Mo. DR kahl. I also went to MD Anderson for a second opinion in January of this year and ideas told Dr. Kahl is a well know and respected cll specialist.

Both MD Anderson and Dr kahl advised me to get vaccinated. I did not reach out to my cll doctors when I got sick but I did go to an urgent care clinic and had my antibodies tested and was told mine were robust from the vaccine.

Symptoms from covid were like a very very bad cd or flu that created substantial fatigue and lightheaded just to stand. My lungs stayed clear.

The clinic that tested my antibodies offered my monoclonal antibodies bc I am high risk. It took 4 days to get the monoclonal and in the mean time I took hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin along with several other vitamins and started to feel better within 24 hours. When the ti.e cams to get the monoclonal I fell fatigue only and suggested they save the med for someone who needs it. The doc told me I should tske it bc my covid could get worse despite my feeling better. Within 24 hours of monoclonal IV drip, I felt completely normal.

[schmitthj007 in reply to mleo123]

You are in great hands with your CLL specialists. Happy you had antibodies after vaccine and got an antibody infusion. I think this is potentially life saving for us. Hopefully the antiviral medication developed by Pfizer holds up to the promise providing another option especially for immune compromised patients like us. All the best

[cajunjeff]

Hello mleo. A ten percent fluctuation of wbc up or down over a one month period of time is probably meaningless. There have been times where I was having daily labs and my wbc would jump around. I think if you had labs in the morning and then later in the afternoon of the same day, you might see a ten percent difference.

Correlation does not equal causation. There is arguably a correlation between ivermectin and your wbc going down. You took ivermectin and a month later your wbc is down. That correlation is insufficient to prove causation.

If correlation did equal causation, there is an equal argument Covid made your wbc go down. You got Covid and a month later your wbc went down. Or perhaps you lost your appetite with Covid and ate less. Did eating less cause your wbc to go down? Or maybe you walked less while sick, did walking less cause your wbc to go down?

Thousands upon thousands of people in different countries are taking ivermectin and there are dozens of trials going on with it where presumably people are having lab work done. I think if ivermectin was lowering wbc, we would know by that now.

If ivermectiin did lower your wbc, which in theory might be possible, that might argue that ivermectin is a very dangerous drug to take for Covid. White blood cells are an important part of our immune system, taking a drug that depletes our immune system could be a very bad idea.

That said, I doubt ivermectin hurt your immune system or pushed your wbc down. If you had parasites that went away, then I might suspect the ivermectin. Trends over a year or more time are much more meaningful than short term fluctuations. A Cll graph of monthly wbc lab work might look like a stock market graph where you often see short term pullbacks, but overall the line moves steadily upwards until we treat. For some the increase year over year is very slight, for others it’s a very steep upward trend.

Congratulations on surviving Covid. I think there is an excellent chance that was due to some benefit from the vaccine. For that we have plenty data, Covid vaccines reduce the severity of Covid infections for most people who have breakthrough infections.

[mleo123 in reply to cajunjeff]

Thank you for you very informative response. I did eat less when had I covid and no exercise. I made the post bc i was curious to know if anyone else had a simar experience. Sounds like just a coincidence. Even if ivermectin did reduce lymphocytes I wouldn't take it without my Dr knowing as I would be worried that it may cause a bad mutation.

Thank you.

[LeoPa]

Did your ALC drop too?

[mleo123 in reply to LeoPa]

Not sure what ALC is?

[Newdawn Administrator in reply to mleo123]

It’s absolute lymphocyte count.

Newdawn

[mleo123 in reply to mleo123]

Yes my lymphocytes were the bulk of my increase.

[LeoPa in reply to mleo123]

A 10% drop is better than a 10% increase 😁. How much is it in absolute terms?

[mleo123 in reply to LeoPa]

I was at 30k and dropped to 26.5k

[AussieNeil Administrator in reply to mleo123]

Thanks for sharing your actual absolute lymphocyte count changes. Looking at these lymphocyte count changes from 21 CLL patients over 9 months, I'd suggest that your 10% drop is just a coincidence.

Neil

ALC can vary considerably over time - results from 21 turmeric patients over 9 months.

[Bunnie1]

I am just recovering from Covid. I chose not to get the vaccine. When I went to get monoclonal antibodies my oxygen was too low and they sent me over to the ER for some oxygen. The ER doctor agreed with my decision to not take the vaccine. She said the vaccines are causing blood anomalies and a CLL patient can’t afford to get blood anomalies! I had Covid pneumonia. The ER sent me home with oxygen tanks. I went home and contacted the James Clinic (ivermectincan.com) and I received Ivermectin/Hydroxychloroquine/z-pac. I haven’t had my WBC checked yet but it was around 7 before the Covid.

[AussieNeil Administrator in reply to Bunnie1]

Iowa doctor promotes ivermectin, calls masks ‘silly’ and says pandemic is over

Mollie James is an Iowa-licensed doctor who doesn’t mince words when it comes to the government’s response to COVID-19.

Wearing face masks in public? “It’s silly, it’s ineffective,” she says.

The COVID-19 vaccines? “How many injured or dead do you need to see before you understand the shot is a bad idea?” she asks.

The pandemic itself? “The pandemic is over,” she tweeted a month ago.

Dr. Anthony Fauci? “Evil is easy to recognize,” she says, comparing the immunologist to an arsonist working for a fire department.

Ivermectin, the so-called horse dewormer? “There’s no medicine that’s safer on the planet,” she says, adding that she prescribes it for her COVID-19 patients while other doctors refuse for fear of losing their license.

iowacapitaldispatch.com/202...

[LeoPa in reply to Bunnie1]

Your white blood cell count was seven? Are you on any BTK inhibitors? That's a WBC of a healthy person.

[SofiaDeo]

Our CLL cells still die, it's just that for a number of us, they grow so fast treatment must be done. When they grow faster than they die, and start affecting other systems. I had a massive lymphocyte decrease late last year, after stopping a treatment that wasn't working and preparing to start another. If I had been taking any "extra" meds during that month, I too might be questioning if something had killed off some lymphocytes.

You may be one of the approximate 1/3 that never need treatment. Intermittently seeing lymphocytes drop is possible.