65 hours into my 72 hour fast. : Started on... - CLL Support

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65 hours into my 72 hour fast.

LeoPa
LeoPa

Started on Thursday evening. It would be extremely easy if I wasn't so darn hungry! I'd take this any day over a toothache or a headache though. And most importantly compared to the side effects of treatment I read about on these pages or the symptoms of the illness it's nothing at all. If it has a 0.01% chance of helping slow progression of disease I'll gladly do it once a month. It helps to put things into perspective too. Resisting a sweet tooth or junk foods is far far less difficult than resisting all food for 3 days. I'm like "Did I really feel like not having a piece of chocolate a few days ago was something difficult to do? Ridiculous." Next appointment in 4 weeks. I will do weekly 38 hour fasts till then and one more 72 hour fast just before the appointment. Then see if it had any effect at all. I hope to get not too disappointed. We'll see. Update: I ended the fast with a blood sugar level of 4.1. So if nothing else this knocked my pre diabetes out of its socks. I won't progress to DM, as long as I can do something about it and I just saw that I can.

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Hi, keep going as this might help others to try. I have just started treatment and in hospital at the moment yesterday was first day and I have another two days. So far so good 🤞but still a long way ❤️

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to C180ji

Thank you, I'll definitely complete this, maybe even pull it to 74 hours. Good luck with the treatment!

C180ji
C180ji in reply to LeoPa

Thank you, second day today feeling very positive.

A 72 hour fast is good for general overall health, but the body is only in full ketosis by 72 hours. Autophagy is also only kicking in with some seriousness at 72 hours.

I hope you are drinking plenty of water - it is essential.

After a longer fast (7 days), a blood test can indicate positive changes, but it is not possible to know whether the CLL cells in the nodes and marrow have been affected. Given that they have their own special means of protection in these locations, I expect any favourable effects only take place in the peripheral blood.

Regardless, fasting has its benefits.

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to seelel

Thank you I'll keep that in mind. I drink plenty, mineral water and "snake juice

" too 🐍. Good peripheral test results would be very motivating to try to do a longer one, perhaps 5 days. I need to learn to tolerate the feeling of hunger better first. I also thought about a keto fast, which would be easier to tolerate. I mean 5 days of pure coconut oil intake only. What do you think about that?

seelel
seelel in reply to LeoPa

The research suggests that a keto diet can have positive effects in the short term, but the long term effects of a high fat diet are adverse.

The hunger that you have struggled with is natural while the body is still using glucose as its energy source and while changing over to ketones as its energy source. Hence the feelings of hunger for the first 72 hours. After that the hunger goes, and fasting for 5 days or 7 or 10 is not so much about hunger but discipline.

Also, when on a longer fast, you can't remain active in the usual way. It is important to be restful for most of the time. The mind can become extremely sharp and alert, but it all depends on how much 'cleansing' the body is having to do. A person who lives on a wholesome diet will have an easier time of it than one who lives on junk food.

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to seelel

Thank you. After the first 24 hours I was already running on ketones. Plenty in the urine already. Research on the detrimental effects of high fat diets: here we disagree, but we don't have to agree about everything 😊. Fasting is nothing else than a high fat diet. We burn our own fat for energy during fasting. The discipline part was a piece of cake. I could do it for a month if it was only about discipline. The hunger was worse 😊 Thank you for sharing and all the best!

bennevisplace
bennevisplace in reply to LeoPa

"The discipline part was a piece of cake" 😂😂😂 That's how it usually ends for me.

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to bennevisplace

😁 I was also surprised by this finding. If I don't start eating I have zero cravings. Just the physical hunger which is very unpleasant. It's much easier for me not to eat anything than to eat a little something and then stop. I could not do an FMC or CR diet for more than a few days. Cravings would drive me crazy. But not eating anything is surprisingly easy.

bennevisplace
bennevisplace in reply to LeoPa

Thanks. I may have to try this. Watching blood sugar levels which are stable but have been on the high side for some years.

Good for you. There is no way I could go that long without food. I do most of the cooking in my household and its hard enough eating healthy amongst unhealthy eaters.

I do intermittent fasting 6pm until noon every day. Occasionally until 10 or 11 am.

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to country76

That's very good if you couple it with an otherwise junk free diet. It's what I do daily too. It gives a good foundation for trying a longer one, but I admit it was more challenging than I assumed. According to a friend who routinely does 3 or more days one gets used to it. I hope I will 😊

LeoPa: The fasting regimen you describe here seems very demanding upon a body that is already challenged by CLL ~~ and in your case by additional comorbidities (you mention pre-diabetes).

Was your fasting experiment recommended by a CLL-specialist or by your medical provider, or was it initiated because it felt like a good idea to try?

I'm leaning towards thinking that while the fasting 'treatment' you are following might feel OK for you, it is surely approaching dangerous for many with CLL.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this practice as an alternative-tx for CLL, particularly if you know of any trials, studies or even simple investigations for fasting when experiencing CLL. Many thanks for following my meanderings,

Caven

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to caven

Hi Caven, no, my hemonc said he does not believe low carb, keto or fasting will do anything for CLL. But did not say don't do it either. Demanding in what way? A 72 hr fast is demanding for a healthy body too. Just like intense exercise, which makes us stronger. But fasting is known to promote autophagy and activate T cells to find and eliminate pre cancerous cells etc. I don't know of a clinical trial and don't think anybody would fund such. There's no money to be made telling people to fast. So I'm not telling anyone should do it. It definitely is good for pre diabetes. Controls it and stops progression. The below link might help with your musings. Much of it is above my head but it inspires hope. There's much we don't know about the body. I think I had this for quite a long time, like at least for 9 years and my very slow progression might have to do something with my lifestyle. I can't prove it but that's what I chose to believe, true or not 🙄 I don't think I have anything to lose and will see soon enough whether it does anything to my CBC. Even if it does that won't prove anything but will keep me motivated to keep doing it. I'm in the very early stages having HCMBL and hope to avoid becoming one of the 2% annually who progresses to official CLL status. Whatever I can do to slow it I'll do it no matter what discomfort it brings.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/249...

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to caven

I forgot, check out the book of Dr. Bosworth, ANYWAY YOU CAN. Informative, written for the layperson. She shares her mother's experiences with fasting. She has advanced CLL. She has a youtube channel too. Grandma. Rose is the patient. I read it shortly after diagnosis and tightened up my lifestyle even more than it was earlier.

KateSned
KateSned in reply to LeoPa

Can you provide a link? Several Grandma Roses on YouTube!

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to KateSned

Search for Dr. Annette Bosworth. Rose is her mother.

Mrsminton
Mrsminton in reply to caven

See the links below to preliminary research into fasting combined with treatment for CLL and other cancers. I had 6 monthly treatments of Bendamustine and Rituximab in 2017. I fasted two days before, the two days of my treatment and the day following my treatment. The first treatment was the worst in terms of side effects - I assume because of the dramatic die off of cll cells that typically accompanies the first treatment. Three years later I am doing well with excellent blood work - with the exception of low Immunoglobulin G - I receive monthly IVIG to keep my levels in the normal range and prevent infections. While I don’t consider myself “cured” I am managing the disease well. My hemonc was fine with fasting and had read some of the preliminary data on it, but I had lots of people tell me that I needed the nutrition to maintain my strength. That’s just not true and there are plenty of studies that show that short term fasting is good for your overall health - and especially if you are diabetic - it can break your insulin resistance. I realize my experience is anecdotal, but wanted to share.

gero.usc.edu/cll/

osher.ucsf.edu/patient-care...

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to Mrsminton

Thank you so much for sharing! Very inspiring. This makes the whole debate worthwhile 👍, learning from each other.

Hi leopard, keep on going, my husband and I was on a 24 hour fast Twice a week. Until I had to start treatment after 7 years and I did feel better doing that. 👏❤️

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to C180ji

Thank you, I plan to 😊, best wishes!

I have been doing intermittent fasting for six months and have lost 30 pounds. I eat between the hours of noon and 8 and have cut out sugar and bread. I think I would faint if I went 72 hours with no food.

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to emmiekay

Hi, I don't think so😊 Unless you are diabetic, stop eating and keep shooting insulin of course. Then you definitely would pass out. But being proficient in intermittent fasting you already have the foundation there. Nobody ever died of hunger in 3 days. It's just a feeling. The basal ganglia is trying to trick us into eating (for our own benefit of course), by inducing it. It's not easy to ignore but it can be done. We have a saying around here. "If it doesn't kill me it only makes me. stronger" I'm still around so I hope to be stronger for it. 😊 I lost about 2 pounds,half of it probably water which I will regain quickly. Best wishes!

Good Kuck, please keep us posted, this had a huge affect for me. Thanks!

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to Splash24

Hi, thanks! In the morning I was still running on ketones as evidenced by a deep purple urine strip. Despite having had a really big dinner yesterday evening. Today's training day so I'll make sure the workout really counts!

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to Splash24

Hi, Ch. I will post updates when I have some new info. Good or bad!

Well done. I look forward to hearing how it goes. I do intermittent fasting (not so strict as you are doing) and I feel so much better for it.

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to Miggins60

Thank you, good luck and perseverance!

Awesome LeoPa I support you in this .

I fasted for 82 hours from Thursday to Monday. My WBC was 21 and after the fast I got tested and it went down to 17.

My Oncologist said what ever you’re doing keep doing it.

I am planning to do one more 3 day fast before my next blood test at end on Nov.

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to steve_canada

Thanks, you were a big motivation for me! Let's hope both of us will see our numbers improved.

You might want to review Prof Thomas Seyfrieds you tubes on cancer cells metabolism and his press and pulse therapy. Further Prof Valter Longo showed his fasting mimicking diet had a powerful effect on CLL in MICE and he wants a human trial. His 5 day diet does cause similar positive immune effects as the 3 days fast and is much easier. BUT there are no human trials on this and CLL however increasing cases are being described by clinicians on other cancer regressions from long term intermittent fasting followed by the keto diet which can be healthy such as the Ketorarian diet book by Dr William Cole which is much more low carb vegetables. see here for one of those regression cases ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to dj02

Thanks a lot, I'll check all this out.

LeoPa
LeoPa in reply to dj02

Wow, that's real eye opening stuff by Prof. Seyfried. Thanks for pointing it out.

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