Anardana Powder (ground pomegranate seeds) for treating CLL?

[HowardR]

Some spices from India may have been discovered by herbalists as effective ways to treat diseases. Turmeric is a well known as an anti-cancer spice, but anardana might actually be more effective against CLL. Anardana is just a fancy name for ground pomegranate seed. You can buy it online in pill form or in a bag as a spice. I'm basing my recommendation on two studies:

1. Some forms of Acute Myeloid Leukemia respond well to a protein kinase inhibitor, even though they don't respond to other anti-cancer drugs:

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

2. There are several foods that contain elegitannins, which are natural protein kinase inhibitors. These include blackberry, boysenberry, feijoa, pomegranate, rosehip and strawberry:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/254...

So, if you are looking for a new supplement, try pomegranate pills and/or start eating delicious pomegranate yogurt. (Mix a cup of plain yogurt with 1/8 tsp anardana power and 1/4 tsp pomegranate juice powder, then stir.) I'm hoping that anardana will reduce my lymphocyte count (73,000 at my last test).

[HowardR]

Whoops, I meant 1/4 tsp of anardana and 1/2 tsp of pomegranate juice powder.

[cllady01 Former Volunteer]

Howard, we would appreciate it if you would share your CLL status and maybe the country you are in--it helps us to be able to relate with one another's situations as we seek to help in sharing with each other.

And the following might interest you:

healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

[HowardR in reply to cllady01]

I was diagnosed with CLL in April and am still healthy. This year I ran a half marathon and three 5Ks. My doctors at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center (USA) are not doing anything yet to treat me.

[cllady01 Former Volunteer in reply to HowardR]

Well, it does sound as though you are doing well. A balanced diet and exercise are wise choices for CLL patients. When/if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Since you are relatively new to CLL, you might find posts in the Pinned Posts column to be helpful in getting to know more about CLL.

[PlanetaryKim]

I'm not disputing the value of pomegranate. But pomegranate is a CYP3A4 inhibitor, which is relevant if we are on ibrutinib or other drugs metabolised by that pathway.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator]

Hi Howard,

1) I don't understand why you are citing a paper on Venetoclax and AML, when both you and this community are concerned about CLL and there are plenty of us already personally proving the efficacy of Venetoclax with CLL.

2) Likewise, you are drawing a long bow linking in vitro JAK2 research on a range of illnesses with personal in vivo research. I'm not even sure if CLL is covered - it's not mentioned in the research. Also, look at who is paying for the research! As PlanetaryKim mentioned, we are also aware of the interaction between pomegranate, a CYP3A4 inhibitor and Ibrutinib. This paper is of interest in that regard:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3...

Finally and extremely imprtantly, given the above paper, how can you be certain that a falling lymphocyte count does not mean that you might be forcing lymphocytes out of your blood and into your nodes, where they are harder to kill? You need to look at what is happening with your total tumour burden, not what is happening to your lymphocyte count in isolation!

Neil

[HowardR in reply to AussieNeil]

Neil,

As you pointed out, CLL and AML are clearly different diseases. It is certainly not possible to conclude that something which works with one will work with the other. However, I am not drawing that conclusion. I am simply arguing that pomegranates, strawberries, blackberries and the other foods with natural protein kinase inhibitors are relatively harmless foods that others diagnosed with CLL could try (unless, as Planetary Jim points out, they are taking ibrutinip).

Ever since I got diagnosed with CLL I have been reading about and trying foods that could help. For example, I drink green tea all day and put lots of turmeric in my homemade salad dressing. But none of those readings suggested pomegranates, despite the fact that some studies that pomegranates have proven helpful against some cancers in some studies. A 2009 study's abstract states:

"Recent research has shown that pomegranate extracts selectively inhibit the growth of breast, prostate, colon and lung cancer cells in culture. In preclinical animal studies, oral consumption of pomegranate extract inhibited growth of lung, skin, colon and prostate tumors. An initial phase II clinical trial of pomegranate juice in patients with prostate cancer reported significant prolongation of prostate specific antigen doubling time."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

The clinical trial with pomegranate juice mentioned in the above abstract did not find as much success as the initial results promised. Maybe they would have succeeded if they had used anardana powder with CLL patients. It's worth a try!

Howard

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to HowardR]

Hi Howard,

Sorry, but your approach just doesn't make any sense to me. I don't think you appreciate that while all of our body cells contain the same DNA, body cells differentiate by switching off and on different pathways. If a pathway isn't activated, then it's not going to be susceptible to influence by inhibitors. That's why you first look for evidence that a pathway can be influenced by a substance in vitro. Then comes the challenge of actually achieving a high enough in vivo concentration to achieve any observable effect. Quite often various processes counteract the intervention, which is why so many promising in vitro observations don't translate into in vivo success.

Neil

[JigFettler Volunteer]

Hi Howard.

I am drawn by your comment Turmeric is a well known as an anti-cancer spice, but anardana might actually be more effective against CLL

Pre chemotherapy I was desperately searching for evidence - preferably from a RCT, but I found none that would support using turmeric - other than possibly for its mild anti-inflammatory action.

Pomegranates - the same - associated benefits dont add up to the evidence rigor of RCTs. In Vitro is not in Vivo etc.

18. Pantuck AJ, Zomorodian N, Belldegrun AS. Phase-II Study of pomegranate juice for men with prostate cancer and increasing PSA. Curr Urol Rep. 2006;7:7 I cant actually determine how many patients were recruited to this study and so must reduce the reliability of its findings.

Until such rigorous evidence is available I feel we need to be very careful when assuming therapeutic efficacy.

Jig

[Newdawn Administrator in reply to JigFettler]

Curcumin/Tumeric should also be taken with great caution whilst on Ibrutinib treatment due to its possible enhancement of anti coagulant properties.

Newdawn

[JigFettler Volunteer in reply to Newdawn]

I agree - we must declare all our ingested products to our Haematologists - especially as their effects maybe idiosyncratic and unpredictable.

That was what I was told!

Jig

[DebKat999 in reply to Newdawn]

Yes, very important Newdawn and as I also learned, taking Tumeric/Curcumin while on any regular medication for cardiac issues, like Aspirin, Plavix/Clopidogrel and so forth must also be taken with extreme caution. Since they are natural blood thinners its best in any of those instances as well to ask your own medical professional before taking them.

Debbie

[Hidden]

Important to not underestimate the effects of CYP3A4 inducers/inhibitors. As an example, with statins, grapefruit is a CYP3A4 inhibitor which inhibits clearance of the drug via normal detox pathways. There can be a resulting 14 fold increase in uptake. A hypothetical use of numbers, I don't know the actual normal uptake numbers; This means that if you normally take a 10mg dose and actually absorb and use 0.5mg of that, which is the intended dose, if you also have grapefruit (or pomegranate) on board, your uptake is 7mg. With half life in consideration and the half life of grapefruit being around 7-8 hours, toxic levels of statins can build up in your body and cause significant harm.

Likewise with CLL meds, Ibrutinib has been mentioned, but also venetoclax and I am sure others as well.

Some CYP3A4 related interaction info: fda.gov/drugs/drug-interact...

[cyclist123 in reply to Hidden]

at first I found the interactions listed in this link to be overwhelming. Who is keeping track of these interactions when meds are dispensed? Us? and have they been looked at beyond in vitro analysis?

[Hidden in reply to cyclist123]

Here's one source: mskcc.org/videos/herb-drug-...

And an associated link to the substances they have studied, (some cases better/more thorough research than others). Scroll to the bottom for alphabetical links and search function

mskcc.org/cancer-care/diagn...

[BluMts in reply to Hidden]

Thank you hawkeagle.

[vinnet]

I see no downside anyway. How about eating pomegranate fruit? It is delicous and easy availability here in india...

Vinnet

[Dahlia7 in reply to vinnet]

I would not eat it or take a supplement containing it if you are on Ibrutinib or venetoclax. It’s contraindicated. Period.

[vinnet in reply to Dahlia7]

I was commenting for those of us who are in WnW , like myself and are not on

Any medication

[Dahlia7 in reply to vinnet]

I understand. I just wanted to reinforce the potential danger for those on the forum under treatment. Best of luck to you with watch and wait. Our thoughts are with you.

[Hidden in reply to Dahlia7]

I really agree with this. There should be no confusion when non prescribed alternatives are discussed here. Though often the posts are made with good intent, they actually can be dangerous.

[vinnet in reply to Dahlia7]

Thx dahila...

Wish u and family, a great 2020..

[Momlyn]

Question: what about Acalabrutinib, should I stay away from eating the pomegranate fruit?

[Hidden in reply to Momlyn]

duckduckgo.com/?q=acalabrut...

webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-5030...

duckduckgo.com/?q=pomegrana...

EDIT: Acalabrutinib has medium to strong interaction with CYP3a4 inhibitors.

From this article, pomegranate is potent:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/156...

"pomegranate juice was shown to be a potent inhibitor of human CYP3A. Addition of 25 microl (5.0% v/v) of pomegranate juice resulted in almost complete inhibition of the carbamazepine 10,11-epoxidase activity of human CYP3A (1.8%). The inhibition potency of pomegranate juice was similar to that of grapefruit juice."

this one is more succinct: mskcc.org/cancer-care/integ...

"Do not take if You are taking medications that interact with grapefruit juice: Pomegranate may have effects similar to grapefruit juice. "

Personally I'd avoid it.

[Momlyn in reply to Hidden]

Thanks, I bought a pomegranate recently, but hadn’t gotten around to eating it. Now I know. I’ll share with family members who like it. Thanks again!

[PalmettoMiami in reply to Hidden]

I don't see why this is such a negative issue. Sounds a lot healthier than the processed foods and additives we eat every day. Adding known to be healthy foods to our diet shouldn't be attacked. Yes if you are receiving treatment discuss with your doctor before eating large quantities but I don't see the harm.

[Hidden in reply to PalmettoMiami]

It is all context. If you are not taking drugs that are affected by CYP3A4, I agree with you entirely. Enjoy your pomegranates and grapefruits.

LOL! and by the way, some of "we" do not eat processed foods and additives at all.

[PalmettoMiami in reply to Hidden]

I agree and am one who tries to only eat organic clean foods, but I was speaking about people in general who eat all kinds of chemicals and additives daily and not those who are doing their best to eat healthy and do all they can to prevent opportunistic diseases and toxins from taking hold.