Can vaccinations cause A-Fib?

[The-Man-with-a-Plan]

Hi all.

I had an experience on Friday/Saturday and I'd like to get your collective feedback.

I'm a 64 yo male. I've been diagnosed with CLL since Jan 2019. Saw a CLL specialist in April. He recommended a number of vaccinations including Prevnar 13. On Friday, I got the shot. Saturday morning I went into A-Fib. I returned to normal sinus rhythm later in the day after taking 1 x 25mg metoprolol and 3 x 100mg flecainide. I will see my cardiologist early next week to confirm everything is OK.

I checked the Prevnar 13 package insert before and after the shot and couldn't find any reference to A-Fib. A web search yielded a post from someone who went into A-Fib after getting the shot back in 2008.

I see my CLL specialist in 5 days. Will discuss this with him.

Thanks for your help.

TMwaP

[onu1tadi2]

Were you already taking Ibrutinib or some other drug when you got the shot? The shots work by causing the disease in minute amount so the body creates immunity. But with Ibrutinib the body's immune system work differently and i am told that shots like flu and pneumonia do not work as well once one is already on the drugs. Best to take them in advance. Personally I am taking no flu or pneumonia shots, as I have not had the flu since about 30 years ago once.

[The-Man-with-a-Plan in reply to onu1tadi2]

Appreciate your timely feedback. No, I'm not taking any meds for CLL. The doctor just wanted to boost my immune surveillance. I'm going to be on W&W for as long as possible.

[Newdawn Administrator in reply to onu1tadi2]

I think it’s somewhat misleading to say vaccinations ‘cause the disease in minute amounts’ onu1adi2 because this suggests the potential to introduce the illness and harm. They mimic the condition and trick the immune system to be triggered into action and produce antibodies. Of course our immune suppression can render the process to be less effective as defects in our acquired immune system and resultant lower immunoglobulin levels can essentially mean our bodies have lost past ‘blueprints’ to protect from childhood illnesses.

The important thing is following the medical advice we are given and receive essential non live vaccinations. If there’s any doubt as to need or suitability whilst on treatment, the specialist is the person to consult and I’d be concerned at any attempt to deter people from receiving them.

This limited study is useful in determining the effectiveness of the flu vaccine whilst taking Ibrutinib mono therapy but it’s clear greater research is required;

Conclusions

‘Our data show that an antibody response to influenza vaccination is permissible in patients receiving single-agent ibrutinib. Up to 74% of patients achieved seroprotective titers against common influenza viruses after vaccination. Consequently, routine immunization against influenza should be considered in accordance with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommendations for immunocompromised patients.’

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

On a more note, I found this to be a very straightforward little video explaining how vaccines work which some may find helpful. It doesn’t address vaccination response in the immune-compromised however.

vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/how-do-v...

Apologies for diverting from your specific question TMwaP but I felt this response needed addressing as it has the potential to deter people on treatment from considering vaccinations.

Newdawn

[The-Man-with-a-Plan in reply to Newdawn]

Newdawn:

Appreciate the detailed response.

For the sake of all who read this - now that I'm immunocompromised, I appreciate what vaccines do to bolster immune surveillance. Moreover I wholeheartedly embrace the value of vaccines and will continue to get them.

But, my question still stands - for those of you who have A-Fib and CLL, did anyone experience an A-Fib event after getting the Prevnar 13 vaccine? There is nothing in the PI or medical literature that suggests this should happen.

I plan to share this with my CLL specialist on Friday.

Thanks.

TMwaP

[Newdawn Administrator in reply to The-Man-with-a-Plan]

Apologies TMwaP because the general response to onu1tadi2 was meant as a general vaccine response in relation to the immuno-compromised.

I do think your issue is very specific with serious implications. As you say, there seems to be a dearth of research/knowledge on this and I really hope your specialist is in a position to advise.

Perhaps it would need the opinion of an immunologist?

Let us know what you discover and wishing you well.

Newdawn

[Shedman]

The Prevnar vaccine does not 'work' by "causing the disease..."

It's a dead vaccine. There are a number of hypotheses about the complicated immune system activation by such conjugate vaccines.

A-fib ?

You already have heart meds - beta blocker and a class 1c antiarrhythmic agent.. So you already have a treatable extent of heart/cardiovascular health problems.

The vaccine does present a challenge to our immune systems, and this does result in some variable extent of bodily peturbations -- if this is not too entirely vague.. It was intended not to be pseudo specific..

- symptoms can be vague and/or complex and hard to describe -

..so I'd suppose that it is possible for a vaccine to trigger a pre-existing condition, or, to trigger some susceptibility - to alter some health thresholds temporarily..

It's a good thing you had your heart meds for A-fib, and it is a good example of how we must watch our health carefully during W&W (or active surveillance) and get medical advice upon any change for the worse.

[The-Man-with-a-Plan in reply to Shedman]

Shedman:

Thanks for getting back to me.

I was surprised/pleased my rapid, irregular heart beat returned to normal relatively quickly after taking the beta-blocker and the antiarrythmic. I only take these meds PRN.

Today, I exercised for the first time since the incident. Everything is back to normal.

A good cardiologist and eternal vigilance makes a difference.

TMwaP