I've always experienced a benefit from simply drinking green. Over the course of my life, when I was a green tea drinker I had far fewer colds/sinus infections etc than those times when I was a coffee drinker. Anyway, as a W&W CLL person since 2015 I've been increasingly going alternative so these days, besides cold-pressed juices and almost no refined sugar/carbs, I also drink Matcha (high quality) green tea which I make myself without sugar and I also take high quality cur cumin (500mm with peperidine, 2-4x day depending on what I think I need). I'm wondering if anyone knows if Matcha is considered as green tea in the medical sense? Thanks for the amazing community
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Thanks so much! I have noticed that the Matcha I just bought is from Japan and it has a much nicer green color and flavor. Although it was a good bit more than the Chinese product, it's pretty economical because you only need a teaspoon or less to make a 16 oz beverage. But anyway, are we just measuring milligrams to milligrams when you say 10:1?
EGCG theraputic dose at the Mayo was 2000 mg twice a day. Add curcumin was only tried in mice as I recall and they found the ratio of EGCG to curcumin was 10:1, but I have no idea what dose they used...
Chinese teas have had issues with banned pesticides for years...
Also you should research brewing to maintain EGCG activity, there are probably 200 posts here on the topic
EGCG is a topo ..a type of chemo... there is lots to learn. ☺️
The process for making matcha green tea does destroy some of the polyphenols, ie EGCG. You are better off drinking a normal quality green tea which will contain more. And it’s best made with boiling hot water and left to stew if you can stand it as it leaches out more polyphenols. Not that you will ever reach therapeutic levels.
165 degrees is optimum from a study done in the 1980s by the USDA... water too hot it changes to EGC... the study also found you loose 12% as soon as it hits water...
The database was on line in the early 2000s, but I haven't seen it for some time...
Its a topoisomerase inhibitor, type 1 and 2 inhibitor/poison... like quinalones, etoposide and doxorubicin all are chemo...I have had all three, so I'm more than familiar with these drugs.
Topoisomerase inhibitors are chemical compounds that block the action of topoisomerase[1] (topoisomerase I and II), which is a type of enzyme that controls the changes in DNA structure[2] by catalyzing the breaking and rejoining of the phosphodiester backbone of DNA strands during the normal cell cycle.
In recent years, topoisomerases have become popular targets for cancer chemotherapy treatments. It is thought that topoisomerase inhibitors block the ligation step of the cell cycle, generating single and double stranded breaks that harm the integrity of the genome. Introduction of these breaks subsequently leads to apoptosis and cell death.
Several years ago I eschewed chemo for high dose green tea extract based on a study done at Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN, and had a very good effect. If I remember correctly I had 1,875 mg daily in 4-5 capsules (decaffeinated) for six months. I had a CT before and after, and monthly labs to follow my liver. E.V.E.R.Y. tumor shrunk and my disease was quite bulky. The study was only done on stage 0 & I and I am a stage IV. The doctor doing the study figured out what my dose would have been if I was eligible for the study and I convinced my local onc to follow me. The onc was extremely reluctant but relented at my insistence and she was quite surprised by the result.
I have SLL, small b-cell lymphocytic lymphoma, a subclass of CLL. I used low dose radiation to some of the bigger nodes that were causing problems. It was amazing to literally watch these massive tumors melt standing in front of the mirror. This was quite successful and the hospital went on to write a protocol for it and have used it on other patients. I failed rituximab alone (a German study) and a couple years later bendamustine/rituximab together subsequent to the EGCG, and now I've been on ibrutinib for almost 5 years. My lymphoma metz'd to both eye sockets for which they were radiated (yuck) and my corneas along with everything else were burnt. To save the corneas I followed a Japanese practice of human growth factors made into eyedrops harvested from my own blood: it saved the corneas.
Thank you so much for sharing. So glad you sought an alternative treatment that saved your eyes. What I'm finding, or rather rediscovering for the umpteenth time in my life, is that the medical profession is just a piece of the puzzle and the most important factor in our health and well-being is to be proactive about everything. We always figure out eventually what will work for us. These days I'm very diet-conscious and discovering things like massive dose Vitamin C. So simple, but I just knocked out a sure-to-be sinus infection which started in my throat last Thursday. The Vitamin C, along with some garlic, turmeric, etc. worked like a charm and quickly. Wishing you wellness and happiness
Exactly, be proactive, do your homework, own your disease, treatment choices, and eat well. I'd been a vegetarian for decades and answered a craving for meat which I now have on occasion, but interesting enough, gave up grains and can't believe what a difference it made in my gut.
Very good to hear. I stay away from sugar and refined carbs, but find whole grains OK although I avoid gluten because I've been diagnosed as gluten-intolerant for 15 years even if it's nothing terrible really. I suspect that all the improvements I'm making will render this not even an issue but I'm careful for now. Vegetarianism and veganism, both of which I've tried for lengths up to 1-1/2 years have always preceded some some of health crisis for me. I do try to have vegetarian and vegan meals on a regular basis but to me the need for modest amounts of (organic etc) good fish/eggs/chicken and occasional meat seems necessary. Two asides on the red meet issue: 1. Before being diagnosed with pneumonia in 2013, which required thoracic surgery, I had been vegetarian for a spell. Suddenly the craving for red meat was extraordinary. I understood later why - my iron levels were so depleted on account of the pneumonia. 2. My wife's hair doesn't fall out as much when she has red meat and she has tried everything else including every kind of iron supplement, all of which cause stomach problems at some point. So the moral is, we have to listen to our bodies much more carefully....
Be careful of 'massive doses of Vit C', it promotes B cell proliferation... not what we want in CLL... this was the recommendation of Dr. Susan Leclair, 15 years ago...
Dr. Leclair is a retired chancellor professor from the Department of Medical Laboratory Science at the University of Massachusetts. Dr. Leclair was a senior associate at the UMass Center for Molecular Diagnostics.
Thank you for your email. Can you point to any literature that supports this or can you give an idea of the quantity of VIT C that might cause this? What I'm taking in the overall scheme of VIT C therapies is, I think, quite modest - somewhere between 8-15 Grams a day for these past 4 days. The sore throat/sinus problem left in a matter of an hour - this is something that hasn't happened ever as I've been getting these infections regularly for the past several years.
No this is a historical comment made on ACOR a number of years ago, you can search there or here on HU... its been mention many times...
Here is the reference...
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Thanks to Nick for posting this to Macmillan, in 2012
quote
SUSAN LECLAIR
"Vitamin C does seem to stimulate lymphocyte activity - which was one of the reasons that Linus Pauling thought that it was so good in the prevention of malignancy. The flip to that, of course, is when the malignancy is in the lymphocytes and then it is not a good idea to stimulate them any further than already are.
One of the issues then is the fact that we all need vitamin C to live. So - what to do. I would stick with the printed recommended daily allowance and not go too high above that. Does that mean I don't gorge on fresh oranges when we get them? No - but I don't do it on a daily basis either."
SUSAN LECLAIR
"In essence, you do have that correct. vitamin C does stimulate the immune system and several researchers claim that too much of it can be harmful to CLL patients. If you google vitamin C and leukemia, you will get several hits about this. One very good overview is: cancer.gov/newscenter/press...
Much of the work on anti-oxidants show that they have several different pathways of action. Is it possible that one of them MIGHT be better for patients with CLL than others? Possibly but that is unknown at this time.
I think that most researchers would still rely on the "balanced nutrition" rather than the skewed nutrition used by Pauling and others. (Remember, Pauling did die of cancer.) end quote”
I think the gist of this is that we each find our own way for our own reasons and if we need a boost of a particular vitamin or supplement or foot item to stave off an infection from setting up, so be it. Do all things in moderation including moderation.
Hey there! John here jumping into the thread since I started it all above. I think you need to look more carefully at the Vitamin C question - There is over 80 years of research into the efficacy of massive dose Vitamin C from what I'm reading and not a case of toxicity reported. The few studies that contradicted the idea were using low doses of vitamin C. It's like saying an antibiotic doesn't work when you use it at 1/10th the required dosage. Well, of course not. Same for every medication - dosage is paramount. The key with vitamin C therapy is to use the amount needed for that particular infection and that can be assessed only on an individual basis by the simple method of bowel tolerance (you stop when you feel or have a loose stool). That's why there can be a "10 Gram" Vitamin C cold and a 100 gram severe flu. See the website: doctoryourself.com for more info.
btw - Pauling died at the age of 93, so cancer or not, I'd be happy with that given that I have CLL.
To achieve a high dose of vitamin C, you'd have to eat a lot of fruit or vegetables. Kiwi fruit and green peppers/capsicums have among the highest concentration of vitamin C, at around 0.1% to 0.25% vitamin C. So to have an intake of 1 gram of vitamin C, you'd have to eat about a kilogram of kiwi fruit or 400 grams of raw peppers.
High intake of vitamin C is not recommended if you are prone to kidney stones or have a build up of iron. Both conditions may be a concern for some of us, with the latter an issue if we need red blood cell transfusions.
Linus Pauling DID die from cancer, irrespective of how long he lived, so high vitamin C did not spare him from that.
There is some evidence that very high doses of vitamin C may reduce how long it takes to get over the common cold, but it hasn't been studied in those with CLL: sciencedaily.com/releases/2...
Which leaves us with the quandary of whether trying to shorten how long we suffer having a cold might also boost our CLL...
Hi livinglifewell. I have CLL with very prominent lymph nodes in my neck. Apart from enlarged lymph nodes, I am otherwise well. The doctor has discussed radiation but I haven't been able to find much positive information about it and so have been a bit reluctant to try it. Did you get any side effects from the radiation? (I've read there is a risk of it effecting the thyroid)
Radiation can be used to shrink nodes, but it is rarely used. In early stage SLL where a limited number of nodes are involved it can even be curative. Given the number of important structures in your neck and nearby, you would want to be very certain that there is a very low risk of permanent damage elsewhere before agreeing to it, particularly when CLL treatments will shrink them if your specialist expects you to need treatment in the foreseeable future.
My head and neck were "low dosed radiated" for enlarged lymph nodes all along the occipital ridge on the back of my head, around my ears, and down both sides of my neck. The result was absolutely amazing. I had three consecutive treatments only each time. As I said before my radiation oncologist was very reluctant and then changed his mind when he found evidence-based studies. He designed the face shield for me and zapped me. He has since written protocol on the process and has used it successfully on other patients with bothersome nodes. I had the same treatment done for two other areas as well, the pelvis for a large node causing sciatic pain and in the axillary where tumors were pressing against the radial nerve. The shrinking of these bulky masses allowed me several more years without chemical treatment.
Matcha is ground green tea. Sencha is regular green tea.
I like taking regular green tea in putting a little bit of matcha with it.
That is what is in Rishi super Macha green.
I get a bag of good green tea (80 grams )and add some matcha to it. and then shake it all up and use it for a few weeks. I take out about a tablespoon at a time and drink it with a tea strainer.
I only get green tea from Japan because I know the quality is very good and they are good about not using insecticide from what I can tell.
has interesting reviews of particular brands of both sencha and matcha. They test for contaminants, plus labeled contents. They update results fairly frequently. They don't test every brand, and only test products available on the U.S. market. But they have a lot of valuable advice in selecting products in general.
They provide links to research papers, drug interactions, and toxicity info.
A subscription for the site does cost $42 US per year. If you are into nutraceuticals or power foods, I think the site is essential.
Green tea or EGCG in large amounts puts a major load on the liver, especially if you are taking other drugs that the liver must also break down. Even drugs as seemingly trivial as acetaminophen/paracetamol put a significant load on the liver in maximum dose listed on the label. Adding large amounts of green tea and other foods, such as cinnamon, may exacerbate the problem. The recent article on the BBC about green tea pills comes to mind:
Perhaps he has a genetic variation in CYP family of liver enzyme genes. We're all different in this regard, and those genes are becoming a focus of much drug research to explain variation in dose effectiveness of a variety of drugs.
Green tea can also affect kidney function.
In any case, do inform your doctors and CLL specialists of your experiments with foods and vitamins. Some doctors are quite interested in such things, and may make specific recommendations.
You should probably have liver function tests done, such those included on the comprehensive metabolic panel the doctor usually does on an annual physical in the U.S.
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