Or is it me?

[MikePollard]

On the back of my last posting conflating diabetes and heart disease...

You see somebody on your daily constitutional; clearly obese or worse, morbidly obese, and you know they are heading for a (lets keep it simple) heart attack, stroke, or diabetes - maybe all.

Then you watch one of the popular TV docutainmet programs where we follow Big Jim’s sad journey, and tut at the subsequent autopsy report where he dies at 42 of guess what? Are we surprised? Of course not, nothing new there!

You get diabetes because you are obese; or you get heart disease because you are obese right?

To treat obesity, hypertension, hyperinsulinemia, hypertriglyceridemia, gout, stroke diabetes, metabolic syndrome, Alzheimer's, cancer, liver and kidney disease etc etc (leaving aside genetic factors for now) as separate, unrelated issues with different solutions is just plainly absurd given the rocketing, simultaneous rise of all over the past few decades:

“We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe.” Goethe.

If you've got 44 minutes to spare here’s a presentation that might restore your balance. Make note by the way of 6 minutes in - by coincidence Oppenheimer’s ‘Diabetic Cookery’ mentioned in my last post - and the slide at 26 minutes. (By the way, can we take as read the dreary ad hominem responses - ‘He’s got no qualifications, he’s just a comedian (insert gag), dodgy film maker, dodgy blogger, got a book to sell etc?)

youtube.com/watch?v=KzPnnDD...(Not working as expected?)

So we come back to Heart UK and special pleading to consider heart disease (especially FH god help us) and diabetes as separate issues worth a moderator sniffily redirecting those interested in diabetes as a factor in heart disease to the ‘correct’ forum.

‘And rightly so’ I hear you agree, and we all settle down to our respective prejudices having been put in our place.

But wait; what’s this?

heartuk.org.uk/latest-news/...

As I've said before, heart disease and diabetes are two sides of the same coin, and to insist on keeping any discussions as separate issues means those with either, or probably both, conditions would miss out on information cogent to both.

And lets face it, there would be a dearth of of real discussion on this forum anyway if FH were the only topic!

By the way - where's my photograph gone?

[ursa]

Good points Mike, we should truly all try to see the bigger picture.

[DakCB-UK]

"You get diabetes because you are obese; or you get heart disease because you are obese right?"

Wrong. My father worked in active jobs (builder, mechanic, factory maintenance, ...) right up until his first heart attack. He was never obese and very rarely bordered on overweight (BMI or waist size methods). No diabetes ever. Dead from a heart attack at about 50 and sadly that wasn't rare among his close male relatives, who were also active and not obese.

But FH doesn't seem matter to some posters on this site because they're not having to face up to it and they don't see why we should have the charity we started.

[Andyman]

So I have diabetes and I have heart desease. And I got these because I was a fat Ba"£$%d. I am not proud of that but hey that's the truth.

But you say "You get diabetes because you are obese; or you get heart disease because you are obese right?" but that is not true you CAN get it and you can get both without being obese.

If you follow other forums on diabetes and you said that you would really make some people angry.

Some people have diabetes from other reasons.

But in my case that is so.

I am fine now, blood sugars are under control and my weight is down fro 110kg to 75 kgs and my cholesterol is under control and all is well. Heart attacks can change even the most die hard fat guys.

I never saw myself as a fat guy even though I spend most of my time in wall to wall mirrored hotel rooms.

I only ever saw a big guy. When I look at the pictures now yes I was fat. Its not denial its just a image we have of ourselves.

I don't come to this forum for advice on diabetes I go to Diabetes UK for that. I come here for advice on Cholesterol but in my case the advice from both get a mix and a shake and from that I form my opinions and my diet.

Works for me.

BUT it cannot be that we cannot talk about both on this forum because like me and many others it is all one and the same in the end.

[MikePollard]

...or irony?

I’m sorry you felt I was attacking the obese and diabetic.

Anyone reading my posts and comments over the past few years will know my stance is firmly in the court of ‘…it’s not your fault’.

My stance, and the reason I post here is that people have, and are following the guidelines that have been a disaster over the past 40 years, and as a consequence are obese and diabetic.

It definitely is not your fault!

[florence5]

DakCB-UK, I think you are complaining to the wrong people. You need to take this up with Heart UK and not the people on this forum. Heart UK says on its home page that it is there for ANYONE affected by raised cholesterol which is the 6 out of 10 people who have raised cholesterol and not just the 1 in 500 who have FH. It also states that its vision is to prevent premature deaths caused by cholesterol AND cardiovascular disease. So, in order to do any justice to that complex topic it must, and does, include information about all the other contributory factors which impact on one another. It would be completely irresponsible to do otherwise. Yes, the focus is still cholesterol, but if you are looking for a forum which focusses purely on FH, then I suggest you ask the charity to have a separate forum purely for people in your situation, as you do have different needs and issues to discuss. Personally I am happy to read everyone's posts on here whether I agree with them or not. I don't have diabetes but am pleased to hear from others who have. Who knows whether or when it might affect me and further impact on my already established CVD? I am also interested to read about others' experiences with FH as scientific research in this area may help us all. All knowledge, understanding and shared experience is empowering.

[DakCB-UK in reply to florence5]

Yes, the likes of MikePollard seem to have captured HEART UK

I still think it's OK to point out that obesity isn't the only way to get heart disease.

[florence5 in reply to DakCB-UK]

I agree with your point on obesity. There was no obesity in my own family, although I am overweight. All four grandparents and both parents had heart disease and died in their sixties or early seventies. I suppose my chances of avoiding it were slim.

[Hidden]

And you don't even have a smiley face - just a X !!!

[Aliwally]

Genetic testing for FH has only recently become scientifically available and in many parts of England it is still very difficult to get.

There are other diagnostic clues to FH such family history and the build up of cholesterol in the tendons where it shouldn't be.

I used to follow the FH group on Facebook when it was an open group. It was very international and a lot of it was concerning starting FH children on statins . The opinion from America was most definitely starting FH children on statins early. FH is the extreme end of the cholesterol spectrum and it definitely does exist, although I don't think anybody knows why some families are more affected than others.

[DakCB-UK]

I have never had a genetic test because the NHS areas where I've lived would not pay for it in cases such as mine, I don't know how to get it done privately and I also fear it will worsen the difficulty I already have in getting insurance.

I was too young to understand it all at the time but I understand that my father's heart attack was put down to obstructed blood vessels near the heart, where high cholesterol (well above 10) was the main unusual thing they could find. I think he was scanned, injected with dyes, put on treadmills and various other things. I'm not sure exactly what the typical diagnostic process was in the 1980s.

Does high cholesterol matter? Well, I don't think the xanthoma I started to get were a good sign and I wonder where else lumps were building.

[DakCB-UK]

It's a collection of anecdotes and handwaving ("There was just an article in the Journal of..." but no citation). A doctor should do better than that.