Spider Nevis, does anyone else have these?

[Grassroots112]

Short story, hospitalised over a year ago with jaundice and ascites due to alcoholism, considered de compensated cirrhosis, original fibro scan read 22.2kpa, now it’s 9 and I’m considered to have fibrosis and not cirrhosis although my liver is obviously scarred and my doctor is quite honest when he said who knows right now unless they removed my liver and looked at it under a microscope, but as far as a fibro scan result goes and my bloods, it appears I may have gotten off lightly. Not that I take that all for granted, I will remain sober for the rest of my days and try and protect my liver diet wise as best as I can.

Anyway…

As soon as I got out of hospital I started getting spider nevi (i didn’t even know what they were at first), just one on my upper arm, now I have 5. They are painless and my doctor doesn’t seem concerned. I asked if I have portal hypertension which is considered a factor behind these things, but he said no. My bloods don’t suggest it and I assume the fibro-scans and one ultra sound scan suggests I don’t. Although I do have another US tomorrow.

But here I am with these pesky things. I’ve read so many conflicting things on cirrhosis and liver disease and most point to spider nevi as being a symptom of cirrhosis and of course portal hypertension which seems to go hand in hand together. My doctor doesn’t seem to understand mine and hinted it could be down to the alcohol abuse. I’m just wondering does anyone else on here have any?

Is it a symptom of liver disease in general and not just cirrhosis and not always indicative of portal hypertension? I also have Terry’s nails I think. Again I was less to believe that was a sign of cirrhosis too, but a few heavy drinkers I know who don’t have cirrhosis seem to have them. I’m not looking for medical advice, I’m just curious and while they are hardly noticeable at all to anyone who sees me, in fact they aren’t, they are to me and it does irk me somewhat regarding the whole thing around them and what they may or may not mean.

Have a good evening all!

[RugbyMama]

It's a sign of issues with your liver.

Think about the classic "alcoholic" nose with tiny spider veins all over. Its not specific to cirrhosis or PVH but if you see more of these across your upper body it's indicative of an issue with your liver.

Believe you can have laser treatment if they are very unsightly or bothering you but this is a cosmetic procedure and not done on the NHS.

[Grassroots112 in reply to RugbyMama]

Thanks for replying, I probably wouldn’t resort to laser treatment unless they were all over my face. I have one red spider like vein thing in my face but that is definitely from alcohol as I e had it for years, it oddly seems to get worse in winter but kind of fades in the summer. My liver was obviously inflamed and damaged enough to hospitalise me but prior to that I never had any so I’m hoping the more my liver heals and I stay sober and eat healthy which I’ve been doing for ten months now they will disappear or not get larger or I get more of them.

[AyrshireK]

There is a difference between spider naevi and spider veins/thread veins. Spider veins arn't necessarily liver related. Spider naevi can be. You'd need to confirm what yours are before attributing them to liver issues.

My hubby has spider naevi which have a big central spot and radiating wee legs like a spider. His are on his shoulders and upper chest.

Katie

[Grassroots112 in reply to AyrshireK]

Hi Katie and thanks for replying my GI doctor has confirmed mine are spider nevi and my hep doctor doesn’t seem concerned at all about them. Mine are on my upper arms both arms and 3 on my back. When you press them they disappear before showing seconds later. They sometimes seem to fade in prominence and then seem to get bigger. I’m also wondering if it’s diet related too. My next appointment with my hel doctor isn’t for six months. The reason I wonder about them is because my liver seems to have remodels itself and my hep doctor is now staying I have fibrosis but again you correlate spider nevi with cirrhosis…

[AyrshireK in reply to Grassroots112]

They are not an important issue which is why your hepatology doctor isn't concerned. You have liver damage so may have changes in hormone levels which can also account for the development of these things. 15% of the healthy population (even children) can get them so they arn't always liver related either.

Don't sweat the small stuff, just keep doing what you are doing to reverse your liver damage and stop it from accelerating. Your doctors arn't concerned, just keep on keeping on.

Katie

[Grassroots112]

Thanks Katie and that makes sense as I have a droopy enlarged or larger right breast as well so could all be hormonal changes in top of everything else.

[Confused2024]

I would not worry about them either...think of rosacea - sometimes that is from alcohol as well but not necessarily a liver issue.

How did the ultrasound go? Have you received the results? All irregularities (if you had any) gone? Keep up the great work!

[Grassroots112 in reply to Confused2024]

Hi and thanks, I had the US an hour or so ago, the nurse/doctor who did it said she couldn’t give me any more information other than the portal vein is fine, everything is flowing through it normally (I could hear it) and that there is zero indication of ascites which I kind of knew about anyway, but you always worry if there is some trace ascites building up.

I’m very pushy when it comes to info and while she said it’s down to my hep doctor to interpret everything from the numerous images she took, she did say not to worry and that this US is for screening for cancer, to check the portal vein, liver size, spleen size etc. which I was due.

She did ask if I’ve had a biopsy yet and I said no and she said even that wouldn’t exactly be 100% accurate. She said if my recent fibro scan states fibrosis, and not cirrhosis, hopefully the US would back that up and my hep doctor will use that and any new bloods to add weight to that conclusion. She also said to just carry on what I’m doing, as it’s obviously working given where I was 10 months ago. I was in and out, my appointment actually got scheduled a few hours earlier as they had a cancelled appointment. I was far less nervous than I was for any of my fibro scans.

[Smegmer in reply to Grassroots112]

Did you have alot of inflammation when you had your 1st fibroscan ? That can make the score higher. Fibrosis, F1 and F2 are healable given time.

[Grassroots112 in reply to Smegmer]

Yes, my liver was basically swollen and so was my spleen. In hospital they couldn’t even get a reading from the Fibroscan, I’m due another soon, I’m hoping it’s went down from a 9, but I’d be happy as long as it doesn’t go up.