Depression

I seem to be feeling very down and depressed lately, I feel like crying a lot of the time. I’ve had 3 different drs say they thought I was depressed and the Doctor said he will put me on meds or I can talk to a therapist but as this really helped anyone suffering with it.

[DavyGravy]

Hi Jan,

I cannot advise you on meds, but a very kind therapist, listened while I told him, he wouldn't help me, I told him my depression is just something that I would have to live with forever and I didn't want to waste his time.

slowly after weeks of phone consultations, I noticed that the answers to my wellbeing questions were changing... my feelings of hopelessness were less frequent, my anxiety was less controlling. I had spent years wth depression but within months it was like getting my freedom back. Depression is a mill stone around our necks, it stops us from living the life we should be living.

A good therapist is definitely something I can recommend, life is better with a smile.

A strong healthy mind is important when we have health problems.

Wishing you well.

Dave

[Zukosmile07 in reply to DavyGravy]

I feel for you. I didn't know I had it (honestly thought it was me being moody) and I just carried on, thinking it was a bad month. My Dr said I was depressed and straight away prescribed me antidepressants. I did take them for about a month and I did notice me not being as down, so I stopped. I can remember having some issues with something else but talking with a work mate. I lost it and told him to fxxk off. He said calm down Danny, this isn't you. (Not 💯 accurate but you get the argument) it took me a week going over the same argument in my head. He was right and it wasn't me at all. So I thought 'well what is me then' I had it out with my mate at work. Turns out he used to be depressed and we both agreed antidepressants didn't work. What we did agree on is we both got a lot of shit off our chests and we are still very close mate's to this day (haven't worked together for years) we even joked about all the shit we got over while working for the same firm. (Even joked we were getting paid to go to therapy). Joking aside, all that really happened is we got so much off our chests that the relief was enough to realise that all you have to do is talk. I don't hold anything in anymore I just say whatever is on my mind. It works for me.You just need that someone...

Stay strong and I wish you all the best.

If you do need to chew someone's ears off. I nominate Dave, hahahaha 🤣.

I'm joking again (I really do hope this is making you smile)

No honest, straight up you can always talk with me. (I really don't mind) I'm damn sure Dave wouldn't either.

I do know it works.

Danny x

[Hidden in reply to Zukosmile07]

Thank you for your message and I’m glad talking helped you. I find it hard to talk to my family as they are all so worried about my health and sometimes I feel that’s the main topic we talk about…how I’m feeling, test, results so maybe talking to someone who doesn’t know me may help. I will talk to my GP and see what they suggest as I feel like a miserable person and my daughter keeps asking why I’m so quiet!

Thank you you take care and stay strong too and thank you for the message.

Jan x

[Zukosmile07 in reply to Hidden]

I suppose that is the beauty of the sight... Between Dave and I we have had or have the conditions you are referring to (kind of what I meant).

[Hidden in reply to DavyGravy]

Thank you for your reply Dave. I’m glad you found a good therapist who could help you. I will talk to my GP asap. I’ve felt down before but always bounced back but the last 6/7 months I’ve not, I’m sure it’s connected to my liver, all the symptoms that go with it and waiting to be put on the list. Also knowing that someone has to pass away so you can live is very hard to take in. I agree life is so much better with a smile on your face and a strong healthy mind is important with our health issues. Hopefully will get the help I need.

You take care and wishing you well

Jan x

[pishi1]

I don't often reply to messages but saw yours and wanted to suggest that you see a therapist, it does help and also remember that your daughter will be affected too if you do not seek help. Sorry to hear you are going through these problems. Is hard to talk with family sometimes so talking to someone outside of the family is beneficial. Best wishes and keep your chin up.

[Hidden in reply to pishi1]

Thank you for your message. Yes she will be as she is the only one still at home with me. I agree it is hard to talk to family as they worry so much and probably talking to someone outside the family is beneficial. Thank you, best wishes to you too

[Hidden]

Hi Jan,

We hope your GP can help you with your depression and low mood, we also hope you find our forum a supportive and uplifting place to visit.

You are not alone.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

He thank you for your message, I hope my GP can help me too., I find the forum a very supportive site to visit.

Thank you.

[Archie1962]

Hi Jann, I do find my low moods are seasonal, and winter is by far the worst, so maybe same for you?

I do make sure I go for walks on the rare occasion the sun is out, go to the gym and really try to eat healthy. Amazing what a balanced diet can do also to help.

I also was offered meds but decided not to try them, mainly as I clearly have a bit of an addictive personality.

But therapy did help. I ended up needing over a year of weekly sessions as there was too much trauma from ptsd to unravel in the initial 6 sessions offered. It allowed me to unload but, even more importantly, some tools to cope with life. I still have the odd wobble, but so much better than before.

It’s all about finding what works for you. So don’t feel that any one person on here has all the solutions, or the perfect advice. Just trial and error.

But equally do not feel afraid to try meds as does work for some people and you may have a chemical imbalance that no therapy alone will help with. What I will say is be good to yourself, and take time out to concentrate just on you. Hope you feel better soon x

[Hidden in reply to Archie1962]

Thank you for your message and for explaining what helped you. I do try and get our daily for a walk and still go to work if I am feeling well enough. I’m so pleased that things are better for you apart from the odd wobble. I totally agree that what worked for 1 person may not work for another. I will talk to my GP and see what he suggest. Thank you, me too and you take care x

[Richard-Allen]

Hello Jann,

I’m not sure I can help in any way, and I should point out that I’m not medically qualified in any way, but for some time now I have been interested in understanding the link between liver disease, and mental health.

For some years now, I’ve been helping out at a local support group with people who suffer from anxiety and depression. I suffered for many years with depression, but addressed this when I had my liver transplant. (That’s another story). What I’ve tried to do within these group sessions is to get people to try and understand their depression. Looking for possible triggers, or patterns to their condition.

Sadly, many people go to see their doctor who then tells them that they are suffering from depression and then puts them on a course of medication, this can often happen without the person questioning why they are depressed. Everyday living conditions like bereavement, divorce, illness, redundancy and job or money worries can all cause some people to become depressed. For a young child, mental and physical abuse can leave emotional scars.

For some ladies, they may experience postnatal depression, or later on, in life going through menopause can bring about depression. So their depression can be attributed to a chemical imbalance.

Once a person can understand why they are feeling low, they can begin to accept it or try some things to avoid it altogether. Plus, they may get a sort of closure. Confronting the cause can be hard, but our brain’s work in mysterious ways.

So, how do you think you’d feel if you could understand what might be causing you to feel depressed?

I may be totally off base here, but I’ll mention this as a possibility.

By now, you’ll understand what is happening with PBC (Primary biliary cholangitis). This is where the bodies immune system (the body's natural defence against infection and illness) mistakenly attacks the bile ducts. It sees the bile duct as being an alien invader and sets about attacking the ducts.

The bodies immune system has two types of proteins, Cytokine and Macrophage. A Cytokine responds to inflammatory signals throughout the body. The Macrophages are like foot-soldiers that are then sent to destroy the invader. In the case of PBC, the bile duct is seen as an invader so the macrophage proteins will try and destroy it.

It has been discovered that these macrophage proteins can in fact cross over the blood-brain barrier and alter a person’s mood. So, in your case, your low mood may be being caused by the PBC condition itself: youtu.be/iw7b0-yTnT0(Not working as expected?)

The other word of caution I would mention is that some antidepressants can be toxic to the liver, so care is needed: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/243....

This is definitely a question you should speak to your hepatologist about. If you happen to come under one of the regional liver specialist hospitals, contact a member of the liver team.

I hope some of this will be of help.

Best wishes for 2022, and stay strong.

Richard.

[Hidden in reply to Richard-Allen]

Hi Richard thank you for your message. I feel my depression is linked to my decompensated liver and all the other symptoms that you get from it. I was signed off work for 2 months recently because I was too unwell to work. I get some days where it doesn’t feel as bad and others which are very hard and these effect my mood.I also recently loss my dad to Covid.

I found what you said about the PBC very interesting thank you.

I will speak to my GP and my hepatologist at my next appointment. Thank you once again.

All the best for 2022

[Fibro2021 in reply to Richard-Allen]

I just wanted to clarify, since there is a chronic liver disease, HE cannot be ruled out as a factor causing depression. Symptoms of HE are not always obvious and episodic; there may be latent and persistent forms of HE. Antidepressants may not help in this situation, but proper treatment for HE is essential.

[Richard-Allen in reply to Fibro2021]

I think you will find that Depression and Anxiety are both mental health conditions, where as HE is brain damage.

If HE is identified early enough, then further damage can be avoided. However, some of this damage may be made permanent. Unlike the liver, the brain isn't able to repair itself. However, it does have the ability to rewire itself and get some normality back again.

The Alzheimer type II astrocyte (Not to be confused with Alzheimer's disease). is thought to be a pathological type of cell in the brain; however, its exact pathology remains unknown. Like other astrocytes, it is a non-neuronal glial cell. It's mainly seen in diseases that cause increased levels of ammonia (hyperammonemia), such as chronic liver disease and Wilson's disease.

Alzheimer type II astrocytes are present in hepatic encephalopathy and Wilson's disease: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzhe...

[Fibro2021 in reply to Richard-Allen]

According to the HE West - Haven classification, Stage I (IV stages in total) is characterized by sleep disturbance: hypersomnia, insomnia, sleep inversion; emotional lability: euphoria, depression, irritability, anxiety; a decrease in the ability to memorize, a decrease in the skills to perform mental tasks. Tremor, mild coordinating disorders, constructive apraxia appear, the function of writing is disturbed. As you can see, depression is one of the possible symptoms of HE. On the other hand, it is clear that depression is not necessarily HE, but its presence in a patient with chronic liver disease should be alarming for a correct diagnosis of HE.

[4567tel]

Hi Jan as someone in the same boat I can understand how you feel. Jan feeling depressed is par for the course with this disease I cry my eyes sometimes when People I know start to talk ( how are you feeling you dont look well etc) . Jan I cannot get my head around all That’s happening but Jan its not wrony for you to be a bit selfish and talk about you and if you want to stały in będ ok so who is going to pass Judgement on you itd your life and you can do what you want when you want and how you want and if peoplerattle on too much tell tell them you do not want talk about the subject any more and Jan depression is rotten but it will pass just remember you are not alone with all this . Best regards Terry

[Hidden in reply to 4567tel]

Thank you for your message. Depression does seem to be part of this disease. I hope you are better soon x

[pushthrough]

Wow Jannxxx, you are a fighter. I read your profile. I can only speak for myself here. I have had anxiety for most of my life and have had bouts of depression as well. I was in therapy for 8 years which worked a lot out but I do still struggle with it. I was on and off antidepressants for a long time. Unfortunately antidepressants can be hard to find the right one because of side effects. It's common for people to try 3 different types before finding one that works. I'm currently taking one because of my disease.

[Hidden in reply to pushthrough]

Thank you for your message. Sorry to hear you have suffered so many years with depression, I hope you are better one day soon. Yes my daughter is on them and as changed meds a few times. Hopefully will be sorted soon. Take care x

[muffins7]

Hi Jann,

I too am struggling with crying a lot lately. I think dealing with uncertainty is difficult though it seems you've been doing well with your condition for awhile now. I also think recent times and covid have made things a lot harder on everyone. They say there is a mental health epidemic going on as well with covid so I don't think we are alone in our struggles. Isolation is hard.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, did I read your profile right that you've been diagnosed with cirrhosis since 2000? Hope you get to feeling more like yourself soon.

[Hidden in reply to muffins7]

I’m sorry to hear you are very tearful too. Isolation is hard and not seeing your family. I hope you feel better soon.

Yes that is correct I has my one and only biopsy back then and was diagnosed then, it’s been a long journey to here x

[pushthrough in reply to Hidden]

Wow Jannxxxx, 21 years you have fought this disease and survived! That is so inspiring for me to hear! Well done!

[Hidden]

Thank you, got decompensated liver disease now and waiting to be put on the list but yes I have x