Hi All
I was wondering if deteriorating eyesight is a symptom of cirrhosis. I have compensated cirrhosis, and wear varifocals, and over the last couple of months, I have noticed a marked deterioration in my right eye. Over the last 10 years or so, my eye prescription has barely changed until now.
Has anyone else experienced this, or is it just an age thing.
Thanks for reading,
David
Hi David.
I have read reports searching Dr. Google recommended sites that liver diseases such as cirrhosis can negatively affect eye health. But I imagine that there are others here that will have first hand experience.
Have you been seen by any eye specialists as of yet?
Hoping that with your vision concerns, David, you'll learn it is just aging related. Smoking can also cause issues, I believe.
A relative of mine takes eye specific vitamins for her vision issues - although not alcohol or cigarette related.
In my husband's case, his eyes were not the issue although now legally blind. Instead it was damage to the optic nerves caused by vitamin deficiencies. To my knowledge this is rare.
Many thanks for your reply. I don't smoke or drink, so I hope to get an eye test soon, to see if they have an answer. It might be age related, but the speed of deterioration in my right eye just worried me. Maybe it's macular degeneration, as my sister, 5 years my senior, has it.......might be genetic.
David
Like your sister, two of my immediate family members (females) also have macular degeneration. One wet and the other dry.
One gets shots and is finding them helpful.
Curious too if m.d. is hereditary and/or if it is more common amongst females. I'll keep an eye open on what you all learn.
Thanks for the nudge. Time for an eye test myself.
Good luck finding your answers, David.
Thanks for mentioning this David, as I too have cirrhosis and have noticed a marked decline in my vision ( blurring ) since. I had thought it to be age related and had not considered there maybe a link before. Hmm, interesting, I,m going to do some research and probably phone the opticians I,ll let you know what I discover. Xxx
Hi, thanks for your reply. I have never read on here of any eye problems with cirrhosis sufferers, so was just a shot in the dark. I will ask Dr Google as well, and we can pool knowledge.
David
Out of interest David have you also experienced any pins and needles or neuropathy, usually in the hands or feet?.
Oh yes, I have peripheral neuropathy, my feet are numb and feel cold a lot, and swell up during hot weather to the point that only my off-road sandals will fit, because they are fully adjustable on velcro. I also have numbness and pins and needles in my fingers, but only the smallest three (thumb and fore fingers are OK).
The joys of cirrhosis😢😢😢
David
Ha, I think we are on the right trail David. My very first query to the Oracle ( google ) informed me that vitamin B12 deficiency ( common in folk with cirrhosis or liver problems ) can cause, blurred or disturbed vision which can result in system damage to the optic nerves. Other symptoms of B deficiency can include, depression, numbness or pins and needles, and neuropathy. When I was first diagnosed with cirrhosis I was immediately put on vitamin b tablets and thiamine which I believe is vit B2 but will check. The doctor told me that all liver patients ought to take vit B,s due to the damaged liver being unable to make and store them itself. Recently the NHS in my area decided in its infinite wisdom to save pennies by no longer automatically giving liver patients vit B concluding that we can buy them ourselves ( what worries me is that many patients don't realise how important this vitamin is and so haven,t bothered to supplement , or so my chemist lady informs me ) I now buy a good quality vit B complex myself. I,m wondering now about upping the dose if it will help my eye sight and depression, I am going to ask. I know after taking it for a few weeks the neuropathy and numbness in my feet is much improved. Well, that is the first thing I,ve discovered so back to the research and we,ll see what else we come across. Great post David!.
Yes B & Thiamne B12. Prescribed.
In case this helps in your research at all, it certainly sounds like a very worthwhile project:
It is our understanding that it was the vitamin deficiencies that caused my husband's severe vision loss/optic nerve damage.
He was extremely deficient in B12 and B1/thiamine plus folic acid (B9, I think); likely others.
He has recently switched from B1 and B12 muscle injections to the oral meds versions.
Vitamin deficiencies do appear to be fairly common in those with cirrhosis and advanced liver diseases (from what I have read including on this board).
Fortunately, the optic nerve damage to the degree it has affected my husband, at least, appears rare.
My husband's blood work usually indicates anaemia, malnourishment, amongst other things.
Optic nerve damage was picked up on an MRI.
The CT did not pick it up.
Optometrist, Ophthalmologist, Retina Specialist appointments did not pinpoint cause of vision loss in my husband's case. Eye parts looked fine.
Genetic testing for Leber's syndrome was ruled out.
Thanks for taking the time to respond, I,m really grateful that Dave started this thread as though I knew that my cirrhosis meant I needed to supplement with Vitamin B, I handn,t made the possible connection from deficiency to my failing eyesight. I haven,t had an eye test for over 4 yrs despite reminder letters and my obviously worsening vision. I had just plodded on with old glasses as I thought the blurring was due to getting older. To be sure I,ll be phoning for an appointment tomorrow!. Ive just spoken to a friend who has liver damage due to Hepatitis C and she says her eyesight has deteriorated but she,d not paid it much attention and just bought a pair of £2 reading glasses in a petrol station!. So she is now going to book an appointment for an eye test and meanwhile buy herself some good quality vitamins. Sadly today with our modern farming methods, failing to rotate and rest fields, the spraying of toxic chemicals and so on, the soils are barren of many nutrients and hence our fruit and vegetables do not have the vitamins and minerals in them that our grandparents enjoyed and we simply have to use supplements to insure we get enough. The people who say we can get all the vits and minerals we need through food don't, realise how things have changed. I,ve lived and worked on farms most of my life and it.s heartbreaking. Here I go again off on a tangent sorry!!. But yes, thanks for your information, now I need to find out that if my and others eyesight has been effected by lack of the B vitamins, particularly B12, can any damage be undone?. Have a good night, bev .
It'll be interesting to delve in to this more, for sure. Yes, Dave started a great thread.
Will the moderators here allow you to conduct a poll or two here relating to this topic, do you think?
Food for thought for sure about the farming, chemicals, toxins and loss of essential nutrients.
The relative with macular degeneration who gets the injections relayed to me earlier that hers was caused by aging. Her specialist recommended a good multivitamin on top. I remember she took another but she says that that one is more for smokers. She doesn't take that one now, anyways, and never smoked. I didn't know that the injections were a sort of glue to stop some leaking from the retina - as per her anyways. Might be similar to what they use for bleeding gastric varices? I'll have to read up on that. (Apparently, I go off on tangents, too.......whoops.)
I have this feeling that the optometrists are about to be doing better business soon based on this thread!
Must join in with better eye health care more so myself. Take good care.
Hi veryworried,
It seems my question has struck a chord with many people. My GP was obviously aware of this, as he prescribed the course of B12 jab's and folic acid. It was only the fact that it's my right eye that's deteriorating, that prompted me to ask the question. If it was just age related I would have expected both eyes to be affected.
We can pool our eye test results to see if there is a correlation between them.
David
Hi Bev,
I agree with all you've said. I have my eye tests every 2 years, so my deterioration in eyesight has happened in that time, which is very concerning. I too am getting an eye test appointment today, as the first stage in taking it further with my doctor. Please let us know how you get on with your test.
David
Many thanks for your reply. sorry for not responding sooner, but I go to bed at 8pm, as I'm always tired, and have constant capsule pain, which is eased if I lay down.
Your post is very interesting, and I need to get my eyes checked sooner rather than later. I have had the course of B12 jabs, and was then prescribed Folic Acid, which I am still on. I'm now wondering if the dose is large enough. My concern is why it appears to be in my right eye.
David
Sorry was locked out there. No permission & privacy tips flagged.
Was trying to post Hospital told me back in December I may have damage to nerves in feet. They haven't been so bad lately, all in hand now. ✋I find my aches move about selecting alternative joints from time to time. A new name to list.
Ps GP gives me loads a B's & B12.
Consultant said B12 was a must.
Hmm, yes I was told by a Doctor who felt it necessary to berate me about my former wicked selfish life as an alcoholic, ( like I don't feel bad enough! ) and rattle off a list of permanent, irreversible damage I had done to myself, including the neuropathy which at that time was agonising. I had gone to see him suffering from severe depression and left feeling suicidal. Fortunately a friend dragged me to another practice where I was put on the B,s and can honestly say I was thrown a lifeline. Not only did my pains and numbness on the balls of my feet disappear but so did the crippling depression. Of course I still have my " black dog " days, but overall the " gal,s doin' good!".
Your right, this might explain my consultants apathy towards me, but then why would he become a hepatologist, if he doesn't like dealing with alcoholic cirrhosis.
I really need to try and find a more accommodating one soon.
David
Unfortunately it,s not easy as I can testify to as there simply is not that many Hepatologists around! That,s been my experience, the Hospital I,m at now dosn,t have one at all, only students and a gastrologist. Think that,s what he is called!.
Hi Bev,
You are right, there aren't many Hepatologists around. In my local hospital, you are most likely to see a registrar doing the rounds of all the departments.......6 months in each. Kings in London is a liver specialist hospital, so maybe I could get a referral there. If I were younger, that's where my transplant would be.
David
Hi
That's terrible, your doctor treating you like that.
I'm going to make an appointment as my eyes have gone worse especially my left one!! Do any of you get double vision? I seem to have had this for a few months, coincided with retinopathy. Everyone take care. Love and hugs Lynne xxxx
Hi Ofeckman,
I think we are onto something here, I get very painful joints, hips,knees shoulders and back. I wonder if B12 could be the answer to all these ailments, everything so far points in that direction. I shall buy some tomorrow, and see if it can make a new man out of me😁😁😁, maybe that's a wish too far🤣🤣🤣. My GP will prescribe them, because he prescribed me paracetamol, even though I told him they didn't have much effect on me.........stupid sod
David
O R Parrots-eat-em-all. Don't get hooked on them peg leg.
Don't use smarties myself. ☠️
Hi
Sorry to but in,I have Nash but get terrible pins and needles in my hands and feet. Take care of yourself
Lynne
Who said that? Yes my eyes deceive me. Had originally obtained glasses for VDU the four screens in front of me as a fat controller. Progressed to lite reading glasses a few years back with no change in fours prior to cirrhosis. Can't read a thing now without them and since added an additional pair for distance. Optician said I must wear for driving. Wasn't diagnosed at my appointment last year but did question alcohol & tobacco which was affirmed. So apart from the auld fart bit we can see or not see that may well add another condition to the list. C wot I mean🤓🙈
Thanks for your very amusing post, Ofeckman🤣🤣🤣
I was a 3D cad designer in the Jaguar/Land Rover Design Studio for 3 years before retirement, and worked on 2 screens all day, but never had eyesight issues there. I retired 9 years ago, so I don't think it was a VDU issue. I'll see what the optician says.
I will report back.......
David
Way ahead of you 10yrs retired. Too much free time & too much time to drink. Not now. VDU was never an issue just helped tiring eyes on 12hr shifts. Also have tinnitus maybe from all the phone calls ringing in the ears non stop.
Aye aye Captain defo down hill.
Well, shiver me timbers⛵⛵🚢🚢 I concede to your superior age, I'm only a 72 year old young whippersnapper🤣🤣🤣🤣 sir.
Old sea dog 😁😁😁
Retired @ 49 if I'm allowed to post that. I got locked out no permission / privacy tips trying to reply to the hermitt. Don't know why but when I got back on amended my job description. Doh!?
Ah, so your the young whippersnapper then, and I'm the grumpy old man🤣🤣🤣David
I've never read anything that says that it is part of it but I can tell you this I have stage 4 cirrhosis and my eyesight is deteriorating so fast! I've questioned a lot of people and they look at me like I'm crazy LOL. Apparently there must be a new study that needs to be done.
Many thanks for your reply, we might have discovered yet another symptom of cirrhosis, as if there weren't enough already😢😢😢. My next consultant appt isn't 'till April next year I (downgraded to yearly now), but it definitely needs some investigation.
David
It's sad to say but I think you're right I think it definitely is a new symptom. As if we don't have enough you're right about that!
I know, it's just ridiculous how many symptoms cirrhosis gives you.
I'll choose a different illness next time 🤣🤣🤣,
David
The problem is your liver does 500 different jobs so when it starts to go wrong it presents in all manner of symptoms.
It makes you wonder why so many folks don't treat it with the reverence it deserves.
Katie
Hi Katie, I agree with your words. The trouble is people just aren't aware of how awful cirrhosis is, and how it changes every aspect of daily life. It needs much more publicity in the press, and on the TV to educate people of the dangers of alcohol consumption.
David
I believe ( profoundly hope? ) that given time there will be a culture shift as there has been with tobacco for example. I,m 53, or is it 55? Anyway, I can clearly remember my mother's dinner party's and the guests having " one for the road " before they left for home. Nobody questioned it. My Grandad carried a few Bob tucked in to his drivers license in case he was ever pulled over driving home from a lock in at his local. Again, it was the accepted way things were done back then. Sunday afternoons my sister and I piled into the car for the "Sunday afternoon drive" after church which inevitably ended at a pub where we waited in the car bribed with fizzy drinks and a packet of crisps. I hope eventually alcohol will be seen rather like street drugs are now for example. Lol, my Great aunt who died two years ago at the grand old age of 103yrs used to tell me how back in the day they bought heroin ( it was called laudanum or something ) quite legally at the pharmacy, apparently, "allegedly", some of the Windsors partook on a daily basis along with many of their subjects! As you were saying David, people just aren,t aware of the damage alcohol does until it lands in our own backyard so to speak. I think it needs people like us, Katie and her husband, going into schools and telling our stories of transplants, and cirrhosis. Jeez, sorry for the waffle, I,ve been awake for 2 days and am a little spacey! My bungalow has been invaded by giant spiders ( they look like their on steroids ) massive, black things, about a foot long I swear! anyways, I,ve been to scared to sleep after one crawled over me!!!!. X
Hi, I remember those days as well. My childhood was a very happy one, but rules on drinking etc were very lax then. My family were strict Methodist, and the only alcohol that was used was in the Christmas pud 😁😁😁. This is going to sound weird, but I too saw a large spider on the ceiling above my bed the other morning just as dawn was breaking. When I got up , it was no longer there. Not as big as yours though, mine was only regular size 🤣🤣🤣
I failed to prevent my local microbrewery, holding a school disco. I was the only person in the village that objected to it, so I think there's a lot of learning the public need to do on the dangers of alcohol.
David
Hi, coincidentally I had my eyes tested just last week as I felt my right eye had deteriorated. I too wear varifocals. The right eye had deteriorated as I suspected. But when the Optician showed me the back of my eye and we inspected the photographs closely, both eyes were extremely healthy, no sign of damage in fact she was mildly surprised by how healthy my eyes were. No pressure build up, no sign of cholesterol, no jaundice remaining and muscles responded well to stimuli. I recall thinking “ thank goodness something about my body is healthy”!
Not sure if my experience helps or hinders you as there seems to be conflicting replies.
I have taken Vit b compound and thiamine since my liver diagnosis in jan this year.
I’d go visit a good optician and get them to fully inspect your eyes. 🤓
I paid to see an eye consultant a while ago who put the drops in to dilate the pupils to get a good look at the back of the eyes, etc. He said the same checks could have been done at any optician.
UK opticians are very good. The consultant offered the usual advice about getting a check every year, but he said something else quite interesting - go to an independent optician as opposed to a franchise. I’m sure franchises are fine, but I think his point was the service might be better at an independent.
Hi Coco, your right. my local optician is more thorough, than Specsavers where I get my glasses made up. I only go there because the are a lot cheaper than the local one, and the lenses are made up by the same company.
David
Many thanks for your reply Braveheart. I am going to get my eyes tested in our local opticians this week. It's funny how it's just the right eye. I would have thought both eyes would have been affected together. Anyway, we'll see at the appointment.
David
Free eye tests at Boots, Specsavers & Vision Express. Save £20+ in Oct with a host of vouchers.
Us oldun's ( pensioner's)get free eye tests, so I can go anywhere for a test😊😊😊
David
Hi David,
A month ago I posted the same question on here too. Someone suggested to get the sugar levels checked etc. However, they were fine.
Anyway, I’ve had the perfect 20/20 vision until last year when I went to see my optician who very reluctantly gave me a small prescription for reading. In fact she asked me to buy it off the counter. I got the glasses but didn’t feel the need to wear them. Past 6 months I feel like the vision is deteriorating rapidly. I see everything blurry (near vision). I constantly find myself saying to family, ‘I can’t see’. Even writing this message, the word are blurry on my phone screen lol sometimes I end up sending the wrong emojis in messages. Because I can’t even see them. Anyway, far vision doesn’t seem to be affected that much. But the other day I drove at night and found myself struggling.
I’ve been to the optician twice and they said my sight is good. Need to pay another visit soon, the results may come different this time.
The other thing I get is heavy eyes they’ve also started to burn a bit. I also get dull headache maybe from the constraints. My GP has referred me for a head MRI which I will be having on the 15th. I also had blood tests to check vitamin deficiency. I don’t think anything jumped out apart from the iron and vit D deficiency. But that’s nothing new. I also get pins and needles especially in my leg. If I sit on the ground for a bit. I get them straight away.
Oh yes Although, I haven’t had a biopsy for 4 years now from the scans my consultant has said that I have stage 1 cirrhosis. When initially diagnosed it was fibrosis.
The joys hey!!!
Hope
Hi Hope,
My eyesight is worse on distance vision ( shortsightedness), my close vision doesn't seem to be affected......yet. For me, driving at night is a no no. I get blinded by the headlights of oncoming traffic, especially the cars with LED lights, and it takes my eyes time to recover. I live in the countryside, so no street lighting, even in my village. Like you, and many others on here, my glasses prescription barely changed for 10 years, and then suddenly I noticed the deterioration in my right eye. I will make an eye test appointment today, and then take it up with my GP initially.
I am stage 4 cirrhosis ,compensated just now, and hope to keep it compensated.
David
Don't be tempted by those yellow tinted so called night vision specs - useless. Just reminds me initially it was the one eye went first by 1.25. Patch over it Capt.
I was tested for Laser eye treatment. You get a trial script with contact lens before they laser. Anyway I couldn't see with them therefore didn't get the operation @ £1350 for one eye.
+ After that you will still need glasses within 10yrs.
Hi,
My wife has the night vision specs, and thinks there great. She has also had laser eye treatment, but now has to wear varifocals........I won't be going down that road any time soon🤣🤣🤣
David
Hi
I'm definitely going to have another eye test!! My vision is worse, especially my left eye! Talking if alcohol, my son once said if alcohol had been discovered now it would have been an illegal drug! I think he's right. Love and hugs to you all Lynne xxxx
Hi David, l have no idea if deteriorating eyesight is to do with cirrhosis, but definately goes hand in hand with those brown spots! 😉
Oh Laura, you are a cantankerous minx, but possibly right 🤣🤣🤣
david
Thank you all for the vitamin B tips. No-one has mentioned that to me. I've also been type 2 diabetic for 20 years and always associated eye problems with that.
Thanks for your reply. Yes, quite a few of us have the same problem, we are on a steep learning curve to get to the answer, but it seems vitamin B12 might be the answer we seek.
I am diagnosed as prediabetic based on my BMI result, but BMI is very inaccurate, and most of the England rugby team would be classed as obese, which they clearly are not. It takes no account of frame size.
David
I suppose it depends on age, apart from or as well as anything else. I've noticed my eyesight has been deteriorating over the last couple of years. But I have been diagnosed as having cataracts on both eyes which are now ready for removal. I am 72. But I've been taking codeine daily for pain and have definitely noticed that my eyes are affected.
I was diagnosed with Cirrhosis (compensated) a couple of years ago.
So who knows what's going on, aside from the cataracts...
Hi Ron, We are the same age and I was diagnosed in Oct 2016. I too take codeine for my capsule pain, but is not very effective. Do you think there is a link between codeine and worsening eyesight?
David
Wait! before you go out and buy B-complex, many with liver disease have too much b12 due to your body not being able to absorb, make sure your levels are checked before taking any vitamins.
Thanks Sophia, that's a good call👍👍👍. I will check my last blood results.
David
I wear glasses only for reading ..put it down to just getting on😄I had an eye test recently and all is well ..just needed dry eye drops as I get a lot of tearing going on!
Don't know if cirrhosis can cause eye problems but def being over 50 does!🤣
I've heard over 40.
I sleep with my glasses on. The dreams are more vivid that way.
My optometrist appt. a few years plus ago raised a flag (spots showed up on the retina). I was referred and checked out. No issues to worry about.
Like some here, I have indulged over the years.
Def. due for another check up and never did upgrade my last prescription.
Can't not wear my glasses.
I have PBC
Thanks veryworried, I was prescribed them for my capsule pain, but they don't work very well, and after ronshirt said that when he stopped taking them his eyesight improved, I will stop them also. I do have a high pain threshold, from years of playing rugby in my youth, but I will see if the GP can offer me an alternative.
David
Hi All,
I've just read the leaflet in my Codeine pills, and my wifes Tramadol pills, and they both say not for people with liver disease, although problems are uncommon, and codeine can cause blurred vision. Needless to say, I'm ditching the codeine right away, and now wondering what alternatives for pain relief that are liver friendly, are available.
David
Hi davina I don't actually need pain relief but was told by my liver specialist nurse that if I ever did need to take anything for pain to stick to plain old paracetamol as long as it's not a high dose and for short term use!
Some others like Ibuprofen are anti inflammatory painkillers but can cause bleeding issues if you have a low platelet count!
Codeine is a big No for me as it always made me vomit and Tramadol is completely out of the question as I took one of my husbands a few years back for a headache and never again!!🤣🤣I was knocked out for 2days with one!!!🤣🤣I suppose with liver disease your body takes longer for drugs to come out of your system!
I just stick to the odd paracetamol if needed😉
Hi Ballie,
Blimey, I never knew a side effect of cirrhosis was involuntary sex change 🤣🤣🤣🤣. or was it a joke😁😁😁
Pain relief meds are always a problem. The reason my GP put me on codeine was that paracetamol just doesn't work on my capsule pain at all. I know anti-inflammatories are a no no, so now I don't know where to turn for pain relief, I have a platelet count of 33, so stopping bleeding takes a long time. This awful affliction just gets better and better.... .....NOT😢😢😢
David
Don't share your real full name
Don't share your contact details
Don't share any other piece of information that could identify you.
Now we know Y ? 😜
Hi Davianne,
This may have already been mentioned, but I just read that possible side effects of amitriptyline include blurred vision and possibly glaucoma as well. I don't recall hearing of this drug before this a.m. I believe that I was reading one of your posts actually when I came across it. Hagd.
Thanks for your reply, I will check it out. That's not good news for me as amitriptyline is my only way for me to combat my constant capsule pain.
I can't think where to turn now 😢😢😢
David
Turn to your glasses & read the label? 🤓
Did that......that's the problem, now I'm bu99ered.
I didn't post it to be a downer! I googled that drug because of how well it seems to help some of you and then learned that it benefits numerous and varied ailments!
Everything has some side effects. A few prescriptions I've been on caused minor blurred vision initially along with some light sensitivity. That passed. This one might be similar?
That's OK veryworried_one, I'd rather know than not. I checked the pamphlet last night, and you are right. It seems that with most pain relief, there is a pay back. I'm being super careful, as my chance of a TP is unlikely, due to my age, my consultant says, so I have to keep my liver compensated.
David
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