Hi Everyone,
I responded to the above post yesterday or the day before but I don't see it now. The advice I gave was based on my husband's experience with statins and I thought it would have. been very useful to the person who posted the question. I'm just wondering, who moderates this?
Thanks for enlightening me!
The ability to reply to this post has been turned off.
Thanks for letting me know it is here. I wish I could find it but I'm new to the site so haven't figured everything out yet.
Dr Google is 99% rubbish. Millions that take Statins with no problem rarely take to the Interweb yet the few that have issues do. I imagine if Penicillin or Aspirin were invented now they would suffer the same fate as Statins do now.
Peer-reviewed can be found on Google so it isn't total rubbish. palmbeachstate.libguides.co...
However it's not always straightforward to interpret scientific research papers.
thank you for that - it looks really helpful and i will be sharing it in another group
You can never overshare good quality information 😊
OMG, it is not about side effects. It is about demonstrating that lowering LDL with a statin will save your life. The cholesterol Heart hypothesis has been declared unscientific, LDL does not cause heart attacks, and the only remaining benefit seems to be a few people benefit from anti-inflammatory properties or laying down more calcium, and even at that it has no real effect on mortality. This is a sample of things I research to inform myself on my own health , which I take very seriously, tell me how it is rubbish. We all want to trust the experts but history has shown us they are not always right and the exposure has always been down to brave individuals speaking out against the established protocol. Give some credit to people that are opposed to statins that maybe they feel it is out of concern for fellow heart patients to share what they believe. Right fighting is not productive, share your knowledge and discuss. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/264...
Thanks so much
Yes!
Thanks+
Whilst 99% is maybe an exaggeration 90% probably is about right.When I found I was pre-existing about four years ago I goggled. The results were quite terrifying as to the consequences - particularly Type 2 - but there was a huge amount of dross and some very dangerous advice particularly from US snake oil doctors such as Malhorta!
I agree there - though that particular snake oil doctor is from the UK - sadly. One way to filter out the snake oil was to look for a .org, .gov, .ac, or .edu at the end of web pages. Anything but a .com! Sadly, it no longer holds true as I’ve just searched one particularly dubious ‘organisation’ that do have a .org.
Even with medical journals, it’s best to see if they’re listed by the NLM (National Library of Medicine) - can be checked at PubMed. There are some titles that look convincing that are not actually peer-reviewed journals, they just look convincing online.
Completely agree with you though! Yes, of course the educational things can be found on Google, but it needs filtering - and as for YouTube, I despair. Again, lots of good things but need to be wary. People make a lot of money with more popular mis-information channels.
of course there are a lot of people out there just to line their pockets but there is gold among the chaff too.
Sorry,,yes he is a UK doctor. However, like his US counterpsrts, he offers poor advice. Besides bad advice some from these individuals is downright dangeous. I am.staggered by those that go along with it rather than listen to their GPs.and consultants.
Oh yes, and he is in cahoots with the lot of them. I often think there’s an appeal of the ‘maverick’ - even just thinking of our popular TV shows. Then, there have been treatments that have been discredited, so of course the whole thing is rife for people to take advantage of understandable concerns.
agree
Do you honestly think such a blunt nasty attack on the OP will make them want to stay and be a member on here? what are you so frightened of to attack a complete stranger so?.
Still I can just imagine the answer that I will get, and no I don't think that I run this or any other forum, just fed up losing new members because of these sort of replies.
Do your worst, better that I am attack { you have no idea how broad my shoulders are } than a new member trying to understand something new on the market, that I may or may not agree with.
As a relatively new member yourself on this forum, I would have expected you to be more courteous to a very new member. Try to remember your manners in future.
Rather than “your post is rubbish” perhaps you’d like to refer to the parts of it you think are inaccurate and why. Might be more helpful. As for your mind being boggled as to where her husband has been researching, there is plenty of material on reputable sites, such as the BMJ site, which questions the hype around statins and details their actual effect on life extension.
I have sent this via private chat to the Op, lets hope it helps them decide if they wish to give up on us { hopefully not}
Dear JMKJ
I am so sorry how some members on here have treated your post, I would just like to tell you that you have as much right to post your views as anyone else.
There is no excuse for rudeness and I am so sorry that you had to be apart of that.
I hope that it doesn't put you off posting again.
I wish you and your husband well
Ìt has i lndeed caused me to question whether I should post further but I appreciate your apology. 💜
As expected.....thanks for not disappointing
Here's a direct quote from a US .GOV website about statins (ps I personally take statins).
"
They are the medical treatment for coronary disease and THE STAR of the pharmaceutical industry. Worldwide, sales of statins are running at about $19 billion a year and growing quickly."
Statins are a golden goose for pharma, and as such there is an overwhelming push & narrative for their use. ANYONE, from you to doctors, who challenges the motives of pharma, or the efficacy of the treatment, is likely to be ridiculed out of hand by people who don't say WHY you are wrong, just that you ARE wrong. You can research statins of course, but only so long as said research backs up the existing narrative.
Could you provide the reference for the above please?
The BHF which is one of the largest independent funders of research into Cardiovascular Disease has been responsible for funding some of the research into the development of statins.
No big Pharma involved.
Here in the UK the NHS often negotiates reduced rates for medication and treatments from pharmaceutical companies and medical equipment manufacturers.
indications are that the current AI generated responses are even more likely to include non-factual, inaccurate and made-up content, with the added problem that they do not acknowledge their sources or do any fact-checking. But because part of the content is factually accurate the rest seems convincing, which could be very dangerous
From what I have heard these should never be relied on for accuracy
Your problem, apart from being unnecessarily rude, is that you have confirmation bias. Youll automatically believe info that supports you and automatically mock info and people that don't. Oddly, you have this idea that the pharmaceutical industry cares more about you than its shareholders, and that doctors have the time and motive to research your individual case not merely give standard response x to condition y.
Some people realise that GPs are not perfect, are rushed, and can and do make mistakes. You've heard of the 'get a 2nd opinion ' notion right? WHY get a 2nd opinion if your doctor is automatically right???
Amen
Hi. I would just like to respond and say we do have alternatives to Statins. I for one take an injection fortnightly. I researched this on Google and asked my specialist It was on a normal. Com website too
Hi Cornetto
Since Dec 2019, I have tried to find a statin via cardiologist and GP. As yet I have not found one that doesn't have side effects, that I have not been able to cope with. Joint and muscle pain, leg cramps in the night. Even tried a lipid called Vazkepa, worst leg cramp I have ever had.
I have not heard of an injection every 2 weeks, and would be interested how you were prescribed this, what it is called, how long you have been on this, and how you are getting on with it.
hi I can confirm there is an injection available as an alternative to statin tablets my friend a triple bypass subject could not get his cholesterol down and was offered the injection on a trial basis run by a specialist at the hospital it had amazing results on his cholesterol levels I tried to get referred by my doctor but they didn’t know how to
I had a quad bypass and take statins and get the leg pains/cramps which is why I was interested
It appeared it was a test/trial treatment not available to everyone
I don’t know the current position on the treatment
Good comment. We need to ask ourselves what's more important, quality of life or quantity of years lived while experiencing side effects that reduce that quality? My husband chose quality of of life and I support him 100%
Have you had the blood test that checks whether statins are affecting the enzyme that works on muscles? This is usually done when people are complaining of pain from statins. Ask your G P. I had it done just a week ago as I suspected statins were causing extra pain and muscle loss. Mine was negative.
Hi Dez 1977 I too suffered all the above but persevered trying every statin. However, all made me ill. I read somewhere about an injection It is called Repetha (Evolocumab) I take 140 mg per fortnight by injection(similar to epipen). Its worked very well from 9.2 down to 5.6 higher than should be about 4 months Via cardiologist
I also do a fortnightly injection as I can’t tolerate statins and I have tried a fair number of them. Cardiologist prescribed mine.
Believe me you would not be here if I was, but then you will just reappear again and again, different sex, different age, same frightened aggressive replies, why don't you post what your fears are and see if we can help you? just a thought .
Without being rude to the OP, an answer can be found in this Nature article here nature.com/articles/nm1135 It only show the abstract and the main article is behind a paywall, but the abstract alone should be enough to convince anyone that there are alternatives out there. Declaration: I take 20mg Atorvastatin (lowest dose available) and 1000mg Berberine. This is not advice.
10mg Atorvastatin is available, which is what I take.
Thanks Avillan, didn't know that. I think my GP has kidded me in telling me that 20mg was the lowest I could take, but it was a few years ago so I can't remember all the details of the conversation.
do you get side effects on that dose and is it effective
I’ve only been taking it for about 6 months. A blood test after 3 months showed that my cholesterol was lower than before but still a little high. I can’t remember the numbers as it was a very short ‘callback consultation’ and I was in an M&S changing room at the time 🥴 I had no obvious side effects, however for the last few weeks I’ve experienced pain in my left hip/lower back & upper thigh. My wrists & hands have also been painful but I’ve had that on and off for 5 years , before I was taking statins. I think I should probably speak to my GP to ask if I can try an alternative.
You do realise that the OP is American don't you? and maybe just maybe other countries have different views on subjects, as do other individuals that don't fit into your blinkered, boxed outlook to life.
Hello, Everyone,
Let me state up front that I have no specialized knowledge regarding statins. I am not a chemist, a doctor, a pharmacist, nor a scientist. I am a Ph.D., but not within the above-named fields. I am an American, 66 years of age, and a HA survivor. I also take 40 mg of Atorvastatin daily.
I joined this site following my HA in March 2022. I felt lost, confused, and all alone. I was looking for possible answers to my questions; I was looking for valid, reliable information; and, I was looking for support and understanding. That last one was incredibly important to me.
In the beginning, I only read posts and I learned. I also went to my medical appointments and tests, and I also read things independently outside of this forum.
Today, even though I realize that I will likely be attacked for writing this post, I had to speak out. I am disappointed by reading all of the outright anger and arguing among and between members. It is fine to have differences of opinion, but to insult one another and to simply gripe is not fine.
I have read two or three comments that are obviously insulting to Americans. Someone spoke of all the rubbish information as coming from America. Someone also made mention of the original poster as being American. What exactly does that mean to you? It felt like you were brushing her off for simply being from another country than yours. I live in America, and I believe that I am probably much more aware of problems that we have within our nation than people in the United Kingdom are I also am not capable, nor should I, address issues within your countries.
Yesterday, I posted a comment to someone who had mentioned getting information from a specific journal. This American (who apparently lives where all of the rubbish information comes from) explained that this journal was peer-reviewed, had been in existence since about 1935, was edited by a professor at Harvard University, and that 7 out of 12 members of the editorial board had connections to food companies that might be seen as a conflict of interest. However, that information is clearly stated on the journal’s website. I guess that it might be surprising to some of you—based on what I read within these posts—that an American doesn’t simply accept everything in print as fact
I apologize for being blunt in this post, but I am finding much of this arguing and insulting to be ridiculous. I believe that anyone coming to this site is likely looking for answers, looking for support and comfort, or trying to offer help/support in terms of sharing personal experiences of heart disease. Arguing and insulting people will simply turn people away who may really need help.
I love your posts and answers to questions, clear and precise with a very human touch.
Thank you for not being frightened off, you are a very valuable contributor , even though you are miles away you speak with a lot more sense than some that are a lot nearer.
Thank you once again for taking time out to add to mine and others knowledge .
❤️
Well said - doesn't matter where in the world we are, there is disinformation and people trying to fight it.
All that matters is that we come together and share our (collectively human) experiences. We might not always get it right, but the willingness to learn and share and support is important.
I'm not being very eloquent... it's been a long day.
❤️ You sound extremely eloquent to me.
Thank You Smitty for your reply. I think lots of us are appaled by the rudeness and aggression in some of the responses, but just not brave enough to speak out against it for fear of further repercussions in other posts. As human beings we should be able to discuss & debate politely & accept that there are different sides and views to everything. And have some understanding and empathy when others have different opinions and or beliefs.
We should also not be demanding others history information if we haven't shared our own, nor belittling their illnessness or feelings, education, understanding, nationality, etc.
People like me, who would they be? As the implication of your post seems to be that you’ve done research and I haven’t could you point me in the direction of the RCT that shows that statins are effective at preventing heart attacks. Also, seeing that you’re also sure that statins are more effective than diet and exercise can you point me in the direction of that too?
That might well be true but some research information needs explaining and without proper explanation it could be misconstrued and/or misinterpreted both of which are quite dangerous.
"The mind boggles as to where he has been researching, but tell him good luck with it." How about this, not hard to find. bmjopen.bmj.com/content/12/...
The health system/industry in this country cares so little about your health that few conditions are pre emptively dealt with, and instead most people get sicker and sicker until theres no option but serious but convenient intervention with surgeries or drugs. The fact that so many people end up needing such drastic interventions may signal the success of NICE etc in your eyes, but it doesn't in mine.
Your argument is that statins are only a golden goose because untold millions are prescribed them as a matter of course by health industries around the world? By doctors, who, once ldl etc reach a certain leveI, almost automatically prescribe statins because its the 5 minute solution for them?
Ps. I'm on statins, but only remain on them after researching several sources, not just the nhs.
Same stuff different name! PCSK9 inhibitors are a new class of drugs that lower low-density lipoprotein (LDL), or “bad,” cholesterol. Lowering your LDL , with statin or PCSK9, does not prevent Cardiovascular death, which I would assume most people are concerned about. How about you support your view other than "everybody agrees"? If you are happy to take what is prescribed that is totally your choice, however insulting people that expand their knowledge on a drug before taking or not taking a life long medicine is not arrogant , it's being an advocate for yourself.
You seem to not be interested in conversation. I already sent a link presenting information a person considering taking this drug should be told about from the professionals during their decision making. Why on earth would I be so invested in this topic if I didn't have a personal story on heart disease. I don't need to be an expert to understand the link I sent to you, it is pretty straight forward.. I suggest you reread my response, you have not understood what I am saying.
Unless you have suffered from taking Statins as I have and actually been taken off them by a hospital consultant who identified that they were the cause of my repeated stomach problems and loss of weight I would have thought they were amazing. However I do feel there should be much more research into this drug and not assume they are right for everyone.
What does knowing my history have to do with you insulting me. I don't need to know your situation and get your approval to share a post on this forum. We have different understanding of the cholesterol Heart hypothesis and the practice of lowering LDL, by statin or otherwise. I do not need to debate with you. I can read available online information on any drug and decide for myself. The only reason I responded to you is because you are insulting people . I have not responded to many statin posts on this site, I get why people take statins. Why are you so triggered? That is a rhetorical question.
Will do when I have time.
Stop trolling, please.
Hi @JMKJ,
Unfortunately the replies to this post have now been turned off due to some of the replies breaking Community Guideline #2.
If you have found any of the support shared here useful, please reach out to individual members by using the private chat function.
Many thanks,
HU_Moderator
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Is it just me or is anyone else missing notifications to their email from here?
