Is there a link between covid and bronchiectasis?

[Seagullcity]

Has anyone here developed bronchiectasis apparently as a result of covid infection?

[Swizzy]

My consultant did tell me that in China they seem to be finding that damage left by covid may develop into bronch. There are so many things that are happening as a result of covid that there have been no proper studies on covid damage causing bronch but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

[Seagullcity in reply to Swizzy]

Thanks for your response. I haven’t come across anyone else whose long covid symptoms merged with bronchiectasis symptoms, where there had been no indication of a lung condition previously. But I agree, it’s still a big learning curve with covid.

[teddyd]

I had bronchietasis prior to having covid several times. I have not read anything about covid causing bronchietasis. But I am sure someone will be able to provide you with some information.

[Seagullcity in reply to teddyd]

Thanks Teddyd, I gather people who already have bronchiectasis are more vulnerable to severe Covid infection. Some studies show that hospitalised covid patients with pneumonia developed bronchiectasis, but I didn’t go to hospital as wasn’t aware I had pneumonia. I seem to have puzzled the medics.

[teddyd in reply to Seagullcity]

My consultant thinks it was probably a childhood disease that caused bronchietasis and I had had it for a very long time, before I was aware I had it.

[Seagullcity in reply to teddyd]

Yes, I got the same spiel, she said I most likely got it from whooping cough as a child. But I was vaccinated and never had whooping cough. I think they just quote what’s in the literature sometimes.

[teddyd in reply to Seagullcity]

I think most likely from research.

[Seagullcity in reply to teddyd]

Possibly, but most bronchiectasis sufferers are diagnosed in middle age apparently, and it’s not provable that the trigger occurred in childhood. If it was generally considered to be caused by whooping cough, you would expect it to on the decline now that children don’t get that. But to give an example of medics quoting from literature, I was advised following diagnosis to ensure I got an annual flu jab. This is what’s written in the nhs advice on bronchiectasis, written before covid. So absolutely no mention of making sure I get my covid boosters or be allowed to get them early. I had to go to a walk in clinic and argue my case.

[Swizzy in reply to Seagullcity]

I was diagnosed at 3 yrs old in 1953 after several bouts of pneumonia. I never had whooping cough. There is a possibility that the first diptheria innoculation caused the pneumonias as there are many people my age who developed bronch when I did. Many consultantscknow this but successive governments have covered it up because of the danger of claims against them. By the time that my sister had the diptheria vacc 3 yrs later they had changed the formula. So many different attacks on the lungs can result in bronch and yet we have never had the research and drugs which are put into cf. I also had to nag my consultant for a letter for the covid vacc and eventually found a way round the NHS website by ticking yes when they ask if I am immunosuppressed. When I got to the centre they never asked and just gave me the jab.

[Seagullcity in reply to Swizzy]

That’s really interesting. I didn’t know anything about bronch until I was diagnosed with it, but I’ve been reading everything I can find about it since. I had no idea about the early diphtheria vacc. Yes, it seems like any illness which causes permanent lung damage can allow bronch to develop. I still know very little about managing it or what the longer term prospects are, so expect I’ll post a few more questions here now that I have found the bronch community. Thanks.

[Swizzy in reply to Seagullcity]

There are quite a few of us on this forum who live with bronch. Bronch is a complex condition in that it is different in everybody and changes how it effects us.The most important thing is self management in emptying the lungs of mucus every day so that the bacteria which make us ill are deprived of the warm wet environment that they like to live in.

Learning when an exacerbation is starting up and having the right antibiotics in a high enough dose for 14 days.

To ensure this you need a good bronchiectasis specialialist who will tell your GP which emergency pack to give you to keep at home. Most GPs know nothing about bronch, don't like to admit it to the patient but are very happy to have the advice of the bronch specialist.The specialist also has their own physio to teach you how to empty your lungs and access to hospital tests and things like IV antibiotics. You can usually find one at a large teaching hospital. Don't be content with a respiratory clinic or a general respiratory consultant as they do not have sufficient training or experience with bronch. Do ask whatever you want to and I am sure that you will get lots of support from my fellow bronchs.

[Seagullcity in reply to Swizzy]

Thanks Swizzy, that’s all really useful info for me and has partly answered some of the questions I had been intending to ask. Following 2 ct scans and a bronchoscopy, the hospital consultant who dealt with analysis of these procedures diagnosed me. Her advice was to ‘learn to live with it’. She later prescribed a salamol inhaler and a 2 week course of oxycillin, 100mg, to use if I get an infection. She suggested I clear my lungs 3 times a day. Easier said than done though. The long covid team taught me hurr- ing breathing, to move phlegm through the lungs to expel it. Does this technique really work for people? The phlegm is so thick it’s like having a dead slug stuck at the back of my throat (sorry if this sounds gross). I’m drinking copious amounts of water every day to try and dilute things. My main issue is I seem to get ‘attacks’ where something seems to catch in my airways and I feel I need to cough but also need to try not to. But for a while it seems like I can’t breathe properly. Is there a name for this and does anyone know what’s actually happening, or what I can do about it? I’ve not been given any follow-up appointment since my diagnosis, but from what you say, there should be some medical support on hand. I’ll look into it.

[Tugun in reply to Seagullcity]

Have to agree with you on that Seagullcity - concerning the doctors going to the latest literature and taking it as gospel without looking any further. Start looking for ways to increase your immune system and your lung capacity.

[Lutontown]

I am sure that a chest infection that I had for 8 months in 2017, caused my bi-basal bronchiectasis. This was with a bug, Staphylloccus Aureus, which is a bacteria, caused the damage, and I can't see why a virus like covid couldn't do the same. After all, people are still suffering with long term covid. Flu can leave one damaged I believe. Then there's measles, whooping cough.......???. I believe having pneumonia and pleurisy in 2019, may be the cause of my heart failure which I had diagnosed soon after.

[Seagullcity in reply to Lutontown]

Hello Lutontown, were you reasonably fit before you got the bacterial chest infection? It sounds like you’ve had a tough time. I expect it took a while for you get properly diagnosed and treated, and the lung damage would have left you vulnerable to the pneumonia and pleurisy. It’s a lot to manage, good luck.

[Lutontown in reply to Seagullcity]

No, I wasn't very fit as I used to get chest infections one after the other. In 2017 I kept a diary, as I had loads of infections the years before, and counted 18 infections in that 12 months. In April of 2018, in the throws of changing our bath for a shower, we found the bathroom floor 70% covered with Black Mould. The floor was removed and renewed, and since then I've had NO chest infections. That is apart from the pneumonia and pleurisy I told you about. We moved into our present home in August 2013, and I think maybe the previous house may have had mould as well, as I had a number of chest infections whilst living there. And the lady of the family who bought that house, quite soon died with some sort of lung infection, which I think was fungal. She was only about 50.

So, have a good look round for mould, which occurs wherever there is water leaking; roof, loft pipes or tank, bathroom, kitchen. And it can hide under and behind.

[Seagullcity in reply to Lutontown]

Thanks for that advice. There are some patches of mould on my bedroom ceiling. I’ll eradicate it with some bleach and mould proof paint. Sounds like your black mould was responsible for your repeated infections. Hope you’re doing better now.

[Lutontown in reply to Seagullcity]

As I said, I've had no chest infections since its eradication, other than the pneumonia bout.

[Seagullcity in reply to Lutontown]

I’ve bleached the mould patches twice and killed it. Thanks for giving me the incentati e to get around to this

[Lutontown in reply to Seagullcity]

You also need to tackle the cause of the mould. There must be a leak.

[Seagullcity in reply to Lutontown]

I think it’s just where rain is blown under the eves, on a North facing wall. And I probably don’t open the bedroom windows enough. I will keep a better eye on this now though.

[Tugun in reply to Lutontown]

Interesting Lutontown. I will have to check. Thank you.

[Patk1 in reply to Lutontown]

I've recently got rid of a bad staph aureus lung infection - it took 4months but recovery is dragging on x

[Lutontown in reply to Patk1]

Yes, the SA bit of MRSA. My surgery kept giving me an oral AB, from April into Sept, which hardly touched it. My "own doctor" was away having a new hip, and when he got back to work, he had me see a specialist at the hospital, had a CT scan, which showed I now had the bronch. and was given a course of an intravenous AB, which did the trick. This was now into November. One week later, I had another chest infection, which was knocked out with an oral AB. So, have you had an intravenous AB course?

[Patk1 in reply to Lutontown]

No the oral a/b eventually got rid of it but it really has knocked me down.in future,if oral abx don't clear infection in 2 wks,gp agreed I will have iv abx.2yrs ago was same with hib - 12 wks oral abx before it cleared.

[Ilovedogs12 in reply to Lutontown]

I had covid followed by a chest infection with staphylococcus aureus and developed bronchiectasis. I had no previous lung infection or problems.

[Seagullcity in reply to Ilovedogs12]

Really interesting and illuminating to find that I’m not the only one to get bronch apparently from vivid. I was very sporty before I got ill with covid, and then it was as though the chest infection never cleared up. And the phlegm tap turned on and wouldn’t stop. I didn’t even know how to use an inhaler as I’d never needed one before in my life. Your Staphylococcus infection must have been nasty, I hope you get rid of it ok?

[Ilovedogs12 in reply to Seagullcity]

It was awful, covid was bad enough but the staphylococcus was worse. I did eventually get rid of it but it took months and plenty of antibiotics and was hard going. I've always been fit and healthy, I used to enjoy growing my own vegetables, digging and carrying water were no bother to me, but now I rely on my husband to do the heavy work and I feel pretty useless.

And the phlegm! It's always there and affects my voice.

I'm still getting used to being unable to do everything I want to do, I used to run around with my young grandchildren but now I get out of breath and my chest starts to ache and I just can't do it any more - that's the thing that hurts the most.

I haven't seen a consultant yet. My GP ordered the CT scan that showed the bronch and sent the results to the respiratory consultant and I have an appointment.

[Seagullcity in reply to Ilovedogs12]

Dear Ilovedogs12, I hope your consultant is able to provide you with some expert help and advice. The staph infection sounds ghastly and I’m keen to know how to maximise my chances of avoiding getting any bugs in my lungs. I try to keep well away from anyone with a cough or cold or chest infection, but I think most of the microorganisms that invade the lungs of bronch sufferers are just part of invisible environment. I hope some people in this community can give me a few tips on how to optimise my chances so that I don’t exacerbate my condition. Now that the long covid symptoms have eased (after about 14 months!) I am able to excercise better and I play some table tennis and do some dog walking. I tried going back to running but it wasn’t successful and I think it made things worse. It is frustrating and I realise I have to modify my lifestyle. Good luck with the professionals, I hope your appointment goes well.

[Ilovedogs12 in reply to Seagullcity]

Thanks for your good wishes.

Like you, I try to avoid people with coughs and colds but it's impossible really unless you become a recluse. I am always on the alert but a passing stranger can cough or sneeze and pass it on.

It is frustrating and hard to get used to. I can't even carry the grocery shopping from the car to the house any more and changing the bed is a chore. My husband is doing so many things that I used to do, and he is happy to do them, but I feel an element of guilt. I hope I will improve but I don't know how much.

It's good to know that you are able to play table tennis again. Exercise is important to help clear the lungs. I keep as active as possible and I have a walk every day, at a leisurely pace. We are lucky enough to have some beautiful countryside around us with plenty of walks so it's very enjoyable.

Covid also left me with a heart arrhythmia, I see a cardiologist and have bigeminy. He can't say for sure that covid has caused it but he thinks it could have. It's some coincidence if it didn't.

[Seagullcity in reply to Ilovedogs12]

It sounds like you need to go easy on yourself for a while to aid recovery and let your husband do the tasks which require any physical exertion. No need for guilt, but you can always take over some of the day to day things that can be accomplishrd sitting down or using less physical energy. And there’s always online grocery shopping to fall back on. The leisurely walks sound pleasant though, I take it you have a dog?

[Ilovedogs12 in reply to Seagullcity]

Sadly we don't have a dog now, he passed away. I've always had dogs and I miss him dreadfully, but it wouldn't be practical at the moment to have another. I'm hoping we will at some stage though, life isn't the same without a dog!

[Patk1 in reply to Ilovedogs12]

Have u heard of lung clearance techniques? On aluk website, there's info + videos and also on you tube.Look at acbt - active cycle of breathing technique- huffing technique. If u can do it twice a day & get Yr mucous up,it'll give u back a bit of control over it.

Also controlled breathing technique- pursed lips breathing. It's gd to practise + use when yr struggling,walking,going upstairs etc

Whn Yr seen by respiratory,ask to see respiratory who will give u tips × perfect techniques x

[Ilovedogs12 in reply to Patk1]

Thank you for your advice, it's very helpful. I'll take a look at the techniques you've suggested.

[Puzzled8]

Hi , I am in a similar position. I was diagnosed with bronch around 18 months ago. I was sent to respiratory Consultant to investigate breathlessness. He became really angry and said my problems were nothing to do with him and were all heart related i.e. I was just wasting his time. After having a closer look at my notes, he finally relented and said he would arrange a high definition ct scan just to be sure. Three months later he called to advise me I had bronch, “possibly caused by Covid “. He advised me to get antibiotics at first sign of any infection and that was it ! No more advice - just left to deal with it, so I am on the same learning curve as you. I was hospitalised twice with pneumonia as a child, so that may also be a possible cause.

[Ergendl in reply to Puzzled8]

What an annoying consultant! Though at least he had second thoughts and arranged the ct scan. Some of them are arrogant beyond belief, and misogynistic and ageist.

[Seagullcity in reply to Puzzled8]

Yes, it does sound like we’ve had a similar experience and you’re the first person I’ve encountered whose bronch might have been caused by covid. Good that you were offered the ct scan, it took a year to get mine and wasn’t offered until I heard yet again how normal my x-Ray and blood tests were. I literally had to present a nasty looking sputum sample, containing red and pink spots and ask ‘what part of this is ‘normal’?

[Tugun in reply to Seagullcity]

It's amazing that we have to get desperate before we get any movement from the doctor.

[Seagullcity in reply to Tugun]

Yes, I felt like I had to push and push to get anywhere with the gps. One even completely misdiagnosed me and prescribed me medication for a condition I didn’t have! Fortunately I’m nerdy enough to actually read the information on pharmaceuticals before taking anything, and I threw the pills away. I realised the doctor had confused phlegm, produced by the lungs, with mucus, produced by the stomach. She prescribed medication for ulcers and people with acid reflux. I refused to see her again…

[Tugun in reply to Seagullcity]

Yes, I also check everything. It started when a doctor prescribed me a pill for allergic asthma that caused tremors and a dry mouth and didn't tell me any of the side effects. I thought I was going crazy when I developed the tremors. It was only a pharmacist who commented on the strong 'medicine" who alerted me to the side effects.

Another time a doctor prescribed my father a "mild" tranquilizer. When he developed the shakes, the doctor said it was the beginning of Parkinson's and gave him another pill for that. I mentioned the tranquilizer to a nurse friend of mine who said, "That's not a mild tranquilizer." When I looked it up, a side effect was the shakes. We got him off that.

I then proceeded to go to a local pharmacist (before the age of the internet) who would let me read their main manual every time a member of my family needed medication.

One save was my mother who had a naturally low heart rate. A doctor gave her a blood pressure medication which lowered the heart rate. Her heart rate got down to below 45 bpm. Also it was not recommended if going under general anesthetic which she was due to have.

Mum went to her doctor who measured her heart rate and said to come back in a week and then they would look again. In a week the doctor took her off the medication.

I did stop checking for awhile but I've realized recently that I need to get back to it.

All the best Seagullcity.

[Patk1 in reply to Puzzled8]

That's an awful way to be treated x

[Patk1]

I Ave to say I don't know,but i would think so as infections can trigger bronchiectasis