Asthmatics on preventative inhalers /annual flu jab dropped from vaccine priority Group 6 by JCVI.

[Therunaround11]

Could Asthma UK please confirm if this is the case please?

[SteK78]

Where has this rumour come from? The guidance hasn't been changed online

[Capybara21 in reply to SteK78]

It's buried in the JCVI Green Book, a long technical document but the one GPs actually have to use to determine who's in and who's out. It doesn't match up with the NHS Clinically Vulnerable list so Asthma UK are querying it, they initially got a positive sounding response back in December but a month on it still hasn't officially changed in the Green Book, so now they're having to ask again and hoping the government department who apparently said yes in December haven't now changed their minds again...

[SteK78 in reply to Capybara21]

Ah that explains it, think it was the lung foundation which confirmed we would be in group 6 for the vaccine – it doesn't make sense if we're dropped out of it, after all if we qualify for a flu jab then it should follow we're in one of the groups for the Covid vaccine too

[Capybara21 in reply to SteK78]

The NHS Clinically Vulnerable list refers to the flu jab list AND specifies non-severe asthma so we're definitely included there. But in the Green Book, where the flu list says "inhaled or systemic steroids" the Covid list only says "systemic steroids", only 2 words but a big difference in the number of people included. Yet the government still talk as if group 6 is all clinically vulnerable groups, so something isn't right.

[twinkly29 in reply to Capybara21]

I guess the difference might be that, since last summer, asthmatics who are not severe/on systemic steroids (constantly/frequently) have not been considered at any higher risk of complications from covid than non-asthmatics. This change to the immediate advice last March was based on data and new knowledge about the virus (obviously in March they had hardly any knowledge so had to guess). On the other hand, flu IS something that asthmatics are highly susceptible to including complications from it - hence more asthmatics being eligible for the flu jab. Maybe? 🤷‍♀️ Just guessing though.

[Hidden in reply to twinkly29]

At higher risk of long covid though unfortunately.

[Capybara21 in reply to twinkly29]

That may well be the response from JCVI. But the Clinically Vulnerable list hasn't been changed, even now. We should be on both lists or neither, and if it's neither then the evidence needs to be pretty solid for us to be happy to bet our lungs on it...

[SteK78 in reply to Capybara21]

There certainly was confusion a while back about whether people who had asthma were in group 4 until they published the advice and it was just severe asthma that was included in that group listing

Certainly the lung foundation seem to have been on this for a while, and I won't be happy either if we're dropped out of group 6 and essentially left to wait till summer, and personally not sure I'd feel comfortable with that either especially given our government's approach to the pandemic – if we had had adopted the New Zealand approach and gone for zero covid then it'd be different

[SteK78 in reply to SteK78]

Might be worth noting that this was published on the Asthma Twitter account before Christmas, stating those with a preventative inhaler would be in group 6, and they asked the government to update the green book which they obviously haven't done yet

twitter.com/asthmauk/status...

[Capybara21 in reply to SteK78]

Exactly, if waiting for our age group just meant another 6 months of extra precautions and putting our social lives on hold we wouldn't be as worried. But the government line is that groups 1-9 cover all clinically vulnerable, so once those groups are vaccinated they'll lift the restrictions, let the virus rip, and try as we might we just won't be able to stay safe for another 6 months if we or anyone in our household has to go to work or school.

[SteK78 in reply to Capybara21]

well not just work or school but general social situations too, and in order to get this thing under control the wider population has to be offered and hopefully take up the vaccine, just to get the country going again

it is probably worth noting as I did below that an answer from Claire on another topic has cleared this issue up

"Hi Artichokes, I hope this statement from AUK reassures you :

People with severe asthma who are clinically extremely vulnerable and aged under 70 are in priority group 4 for the COVID-19 vaccine. This means you’ll get your vaccine at the same time as those aged 70-74. People with asthma who aren’t clinically extremely vulnerable will be in priority group 6 for the COVID-19 vaccine. This is anyone who isn’t on the clinically extremely vulnerable list, but is on the flu vaccination list and has been prescribed a preventer inhaler.

The Department of Health have confirmed to us that people with asthma who aren’t clinically extremely vulnerable will be in priority group 6 for the COVID-19 vaccine. We have asked them to update their published information to make this clearer. We are aware that the most recent update to the guidance has not included this change; but the Policy team are aware and will continue to make sure that people with asthma are included.

There isn’t a timescale for when the priority groups will be vaccinated, and the advice is to wait until you’re invited. We will keep this page updated when we learn more."

[Hidden in reply to SteK78]

Unfortunately, AsthmaUK seem to have been falsely reassured as there’s no sign of The Green Book and the JCVI guidance being amended at all. AsthmaUK’s clinical lead has tweeted more recently to say they’re still trying to clarify the situation. So there hasn’t been confirmation and as it stands, only shielding asthmatics are to be vaccinated as part of the priority groups. The shielding group doesn’t even cover all clinically-defined severe asthma.

[SteK78 in reply to Hidden]

Took a bit of finding but this is the tweet you referred to

twitter.com/76whit/status/1...

can imagine there'll be a lot of upset people if they do drop us out of group 6, and questions to be answered about the actual risks involved for those of us in that group and Covid – it does feel like after having the uncertainty seemingly ended, now it's back in question again, and with other groups being pushed forwards like the police, teachers etc that those of us in that group are somehow a second rate consideration or aftethought. Probably not the case but it's a bit tricky not to feel that way

[Emzcat41]

Ooh I hope not.. where have you seen this? X

[Capybara21]

We are excluded in the current version of the Green Book, even though we're still on the NHS Clinically Vulnerable list. Asthma UK are trying to get confirmation whether this is a mistake or a deliberate cut. If it is a deliberate cut I'll be writing to my MP...

[Hidden in reply to Capybara21]

I’ve done this already and I’m submitting questions to the BBC News and journalists to see if anyone will pick this up.

[SteK78 in reply to Capybara21]

I'd write to mine except he's beyond useless, even if his wife is or was in charge of the vaccine effort

[SteK78 in reply to Capybara21]

Have written to mine in any case, never know it might help in some way (!)

My mum received hers today, the Pfizer one for those who take an interest in who is getting which one, other people I know who work at Hereford hospital had the Pfizer one too – she said there were several people who hadn't turned to their appointments earlier, almost felt like saying I'll go and have one I'm in group 6 (probably/maybe/hopefully!!)

[SteK78]

Just found this on a related question:

healthunlocked.com/asthmauk...

To save a bit of scrolling, Claire posted a statement from AUK:

"Hi Artichokes, I hope this statement from AUK reassures you :

People with severe asthma who are clinically extremely vulnerable and aged under 70 are in priority group 4 for the COVID-19 vaccine. This means you’ll get your vaccine at the same time as those aged 70-74. People with asthma who aren’t clinically extremely vulnerable will be in priority group 6 for the COVID-19 vaccine. This is anyone who isn’t on the clinically extremely vulnerable list, but is on the flu vaccination list and has been prescribed a preventer inhaler.

The Department of Health have confirmed to us that people with asthma who aren’t clinically extremely vulnerable will be in priority group 6 for the COVID-19 vaccine. We have asked them to update their published information to make this clearer. We are aware that the most recent update to the guidance has not included this change; but the Policy team are aware and will continue to make sure that people with asthma are included.

There isn’t a timescale for when the priority groups will be vaccinated, and the advice is to wait until you’re invited. We will keep this page updated when we learn more."

[Therunaround11]

I'm reading experiences from people who are being informed by their gp's that they will not be eligible in group 6 despite using steroid inhalers. My asthma has been terrible and uncontrolled this year and I've needed a few courses of prednisolone. Meanwhile I'm waiting on a respiratory referral and suspect it'll be long time before I get seen (London borough, had the highest cases in the country).

I'm 45 so I'm guessing all will be re-opening before I'm vaccinated.

[Claire_ALUK Partner ALUK Asthma Nurse]

Hi Therunaround11, I do understand this is concerning for you and all those with asthma. ATM we are urgently seeking clarification from JCVI as to where asthmatics will be on the covid priority list, we hope it will be 6 , we will update the website as soon as we get clarification 👍.

asthma.org.uk/advice/trigge...

[SteK78 in reply to Claire_ALUK]

It does beggar belief in a way that you're still having to push for clarification on this over a month after it seemed it was confirmed, even having to wait till then was long enough as it was given they'd approved the Pfizer vaccine and started the immunisation programme at the start of December

[Kitty2823 in reply to Claire_ALUK]

Will asthmatics all get a covid jab.

[SteK78]

Probably the best summing up anyone could do of the situation that – as you say it just doesn't make sense if we do end up put in with people of a similar same age who are perfectly fine, it's either classified as an underlying condition or it isn't, and as you say it'll affect a lot of people if we are not in that number 6 grouping

[SteddyEddy]

Government updated the list yesterday so group 6 is only for severe asthmatics. This is so worrying, I really struggled to sleep last night after seeing this!

gov.uk/government/publicati...

[Kitty2823 in reply to SteddyEddy]

It is worrying me. We are at risk from covid 19

[SteK78 in reply to SteddyEddy]

I did see that 3 days ago our ambassador Emma posted in another thread"

"The paragraph they’ve used there is the same they’ve used for their description of the CEV. They’ve copied it over and not amended it. Everyone on that list should be shielding and therefore would be CEV and under group 4. That’s the error.

“Chronic respiratory disease - Individuals with a severe lung condition, including those with asthma that requires continuous or repeated use of systemic steroids or with previous exacerbations requiring hospital admission, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) including chronic bronchitis and emphysema; bronchiectasis, cystic fibrosis, interstitial lung fibrosis, pneumoconiosis and bronchopulmonary dysplasia (BPD).”

(Page 9 assets.publishing.service.g... )

There is also the proviso under the table; “The examples above are not exhaustive, and, within these groups, the prescriber should apply clinical judgment to take into account the risk of COVID-19 exacerbating any underlying disease that a patient may have, as well as the risk of serious illness from COVID-19 itself.”

AUK have basically said it’s an error (a c&p and no adaption error) so until I hear otherwise, and as severe asthmatics are group 4 and won’t be getting vaccinated in both groups, I stand by the fact this is an error and they haven’t corrected it yet, until we hear more from AUK to confirm either way. Once they know for definite they will let everyone know"

Perhaps notably on that link, on page 9 which deals with the underlying conditions:

"Individuals with a severe lung condition, including those with asthma that requires continuous or repeated use of systemic steroids or with previous exacerbations requiring hospital admission, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) including chronic bronchitis and emphysema; bronchiectasis, cystic fibrosis, interstitial lung fibrosis, pneumoconiosis and bronchopulmonary dysplasia (BPD)."

shows the mistake that's been made with the inclusion of the word severe there

[EmmaF91 Community Ambassador in reply to SteK78]

At the moment, AUK/BLF are still investigating what’s going on. The key thing right now is to try not to worry about it. They will post once they know more - either to explain it was a mistake, or to explain the reasoning why controlled asthmatics aren’t classed as clinically vulnerable any more. Hope this helps

[Kitty2823 in reply to EmmaF91]

Thank you emm

[ccccc]

All I can add from my own experience is that I got my jab on Monday - have had severe asthma for 4 years but have been on daily Prednisolone since March - so I was expecting my jab in mid-Feb but got a text to say I could get it last week. Not sure if I was bumped up the list as I was easily the youngest person at the clinic (most seemed over 70 apart from me and a few others ) or if this is standard practice. I get the impression there is leeway but since I got the Pfizer one I wonder if this was a leftover batch from the hospital perhaps? Who knows. I am in the extremely vulnerable group so perhaps that's why.

[twinkly29 in reply to ccccc]

CEV is the same group as 70+

[elanaoali]

As twinky29 says you are in the CEV group hence you are group 4.

This is from the asthma uk website...

People with severe asthma who are clinically extremely vulnerable and aged under 70 are in priority group 4 for the COVID-19 vaccine. This means you’ll get your vaccine at the same time as those aged 70-74.

What we are talking about is asthmatics who are on preventive inhaler and who are eligible for the flu jab.

[ccccc in reply to elanaoali]

I understand that, I'm just trying to give encouragement that people outside this group may get their vaccines quicker than they expected (as I did) as I know many people are worried.

[elanaoali]

Okay I understand that you are trying to give encouragement. I really hope and pray the people like you who are CEV get their jab. My GPs are stuck on group 3 79 and above as their supply has dried up completely. This they think is because supplies have been sent to other regions to catch up. They have gone above and beyond to jab their patients.

[twinkly29 in reply to elanaoali]

Yep same here. Very frustrating!

[elanaoali in reply to twinkly29]

Yes it is. Still we need to be patient that's hard to do. We all are longing for normality to return.

[Kitty2823 in reply to elanaoali]

I am praying so that this can sorted soon. We are at high risk of covid.

[elanaoali]

community.aafa.org/blog/cor... study says we are NOT at high risk (moderate Asthma well controlled)

The asthmatics who are are those with sereve Asthma. They will get the vaccine in group 4.

According to the government moderate asthmatics won't be getting the vaccine in group 6. Asthma uk are trying to get an answer as why we have been taken off the list. (we were on the list in December 2020.

[Therunaround11]

An account on Twitter has posted a WhatsApp screenshot from Asthma UK stating Group 6 is now defined as; continuous use of oral steroid tablets/hospital admissions. Asthma UK have also said they will update the website to reflect the change.

Can't tell you how worried I am, currently on 3 inhalers and Montekulast and my asthma is still uncontrolled. I'm just not convinced I will fair well to a healthy 45 year old.

[elanaoali in reply to Therunaround11]

In your case your asthma is not controlled you ring asthma uk for advice

Asthma uk Helpline on 0300 222 5800, Monday-Friday, 9am-5pm.

Or you can contact their respiratory nurse specialists via WhatsApp on 07378 606728.

[Therunaround11 in reply to elanaoali]

My GP has referred me to a respiratory team but thank you all the same. My worry is the waiting time (unprecedented demand, live in London).

[elanaoali in reply to Therunaround11]

I glad you have been referred and I pray you will get seen soon.

[Therunaround11 in reply to elanaoali]

Many Thanks

[elanaoali in reply to Therunaround11]

Just one question where did you see this on Twitter?

[Therunaround11 in reply to elanaoali]

I'll DM you as I'm a bit loathed to pass on the twitter account without permission - it was just a random conversation I stumbled across on Twitter but was surprised to see Asthma UK had confirmed steroid inhalers are not included in group 6.

[Kitty2823 in reply to Therunaround11]

When did you see this

[Therunaround11 in reply to Kitty2823]

Today

[Kitty2823 in reply to Therunaround11]

Can you send a screen shot.

[Kitty2823]

When is the update going to one.

[elanaoali in reply to Kitty2823]

We have to be patient. Let's just wait and see what is said.

[Kitty2823 in reply to elanaoali]

Yes.