Further update on formal level one capability meeting

[Mayneffy]

I have received my report from personnel saying that I will have a further 2 days added to my triggers absence points but that I have been served with an improvement notice anyway as I've been off with my asthma in January 25 and previously Feb 24. If I am off again in the next 12 months I will be moved to stage two. I've not been able to contact my union rep and I am feeling very anxious now. I think my only alternative now is to start looking for a new job. I'm feeling very unsupported and victimised.

[Bevvy]

I would also feel unsupported with this as well. The amount of sick leave you have had is not unreasonable and to say you can’t be off sick again within a year is unreasonable when you have a recognised illness.

I would continue to try to speak with union rep and seek their advice.

[fraid]

I don't know what stage 2 etc.means or what job you do but aren't employers supposed to make reasonable adjustments to keep you working? I would also think that it would not help your chances of getting another job if you leave your last employ under a cloud. You need to talk to your union rep on this? Good luck. 🤞

[peege]

I completely agree with Bevvy . Get hold of your union rep, I'm getting a whiff of potential constructive dismissal because your sick leave doesn't seem excessive . I'd be concerned too, most unfair. Wish you the very best. P

[MMBJI]

Beginning to sound like constructive dismissal to me!

Are there any triggers at work? Is there anything that could be changed at work to improve your asthma? If so, these would be “reasonable adjustments.”

So unfair to be penalised for having a health condition which we can’t help.

That really doesn’t sound like excessive sick leave either.

Are work OT involved? Yes- persevere with Union rep.

Good luck, stay strong, I hope you get some progress.

[DannyQ]

Hi I've jist looked it up and asthma is a disability as it states under the equality act.The point I'm getting to is you can contact ACAS as the way I see it, you are being bullied at work due to your disability.

You may even want to contact a solicitor as a worst case scenario.

I hope this helps

Danny

[Patk1 in reply to DannyQ]

I was going to suggest ACAS too.yr being treat very unfairly in my opinion.

[Nanna2024]

Hi.I agree with Danny Q.

My asthma massively improved when I retired. I would look at what might be triggering your asthma at work.

Asthma is a disability and adjustments should be made.

I don't know how large the company is that you work for, so how much HR there really is. I suffered with the stage system of sickness. It's a tick box exercise! There is no consideration for actual people. Fight back, this should be illegal.

Sadly often the only way round this is to get signed off with stress, in many companies it feels this is the only thing that is listened to.

I would go to your doc/asthma nurse and get an asthma review done as well as explaining your situation at work. Good luck x

[Mayneffy in reply to Nanna2024]

Thanks for the reply, I've recently had an asthma review and I've been put on a different medication (fostair powder) if I remember right. I've also been told I'm pre diabetic and have also been put on a statin too. The nurse couldn't really intervene in work related stuff but did say it seemed very harsh what they have done.

[4someone]

To the advice already given, I would update and copy in your MP in all further correspondence. I saw on the Asthma & Lung Uk website that parliament are debating a bill on better healthcare for people with lung conditions. Involve your MP, they should put on full battle armour on your behalf. Good Luck.

[BreatheasyBe]

Hi

It’s an awful additional stress going through these back to work chats. Try not to get too concerned about the stages that are triggered by your absence.

Your employer is going through the motions with you… they are following their absence policy … but when it comes down to capacity you will be protected under the equality law at least until you’ve had a prolonged absence.

I had a few years on and off with really poor health and after each return to work went through the absence management meetings. Some occasions steps were put in place to make my job easier.., lighter duties, rest breaks, adapted chair, eventually I reduced my working week by one day going from 5 days to 4 days.

Always have a union member with you at these meetings they will help support you and ensure your employer is carrying out the correct procedure. You have a right to have someone with you. I’ve had meetings rescheduled to ensure the union rep could attend. So don’t accept that your personnel department have to do this meeting without your own union representation.

Each time I was classed as protected under the equality act which prevented dismissal.

At the later stages of one prolonged absence my employer was looking at redeployment so that I’d move from an active job to a more sedentary one.

Then we had lockdown and I had a period of relief for awhile. Unfortunately during this time all redeployment opportunities were paused. My sickness was restarted after the shielding finished. I exhausted all my sick leave pay and even then I was still technically employed by my employer… it took another few months before I accepted I was unlikely to recover enough for any work. At that point personnel and I agreed redundancy due to capacity was my best option this allowed me to get a redundancy payment and shortly afterwards apply for ill health retirement from my job.

I was lucky that I had a pension with my employer and that they were a large employer. I’m not sure if my experience is typical of others but I do hope it gives you some relief.

[Poobah]

I think a chat with your union rep, when you can pin them down, is a must.

Personally, I would want to know on what basis the employer expects an improvement in attendance in terms of absence related to a medical condition that's potentially covered by the Equality Act. What medical advice have they received to support their expectation of an improvement?

Unless the qualified occupational health practitioner specifically suggested 2 additional days absence for asthma, the employer has made an adjustment without medical advice and has made a decision about a potenial disability without consideration of the Equality Act. From memory, the Dr you saw was rather woolly about the Equality Act. Maybe the union rep can establish whether or not the specific service used by the employer provides qualified practitioners. Just because someone is a doctor or nurse, doesn't mean they're qualified to give occupational health advice. And if you are under the care of a consultant, this would be evidence of the severity of your asthma.

Any formal action for future absences relating to asthma, without the employer seeking further qualified occupational health practitioner input, could place them in legal jeopardy. As others have mentioned, constructive dismissal is a situation where employers impose conditions or expectations without careful consideration of the law, in this case, The Equality Act, and without seeking qualified advice.

I understand your feelings of frustration and vulnerability, something you need to share with your union rep. No system should make you feel this way, especially as your absence is pretty low, in my opinion, all things considered.

[Mayneffy in reply to Poobah]

Hi poobah, thanks for the reply, I've been put on the formal stage one. I asked the union if I could appeal it, they said if I've hit the triggers then no. (Was a different union rep than who has been dealing with me). I've also asked if I could see occupational health about if I could get if I could get ideas of how to stay well and they said I need to see my own doctor. I'm waiting for my own union rep to return but I'm now starting to look for other jobs as this is affecting my anxiety and stress.

[Poobah in reply to Mayneffy]

You have a right of appeal of any decision made at the formal stages, and any formal decision should be in writing and include information about your right to appeal. ACAS has useful information on the matter, acas.org.uk/absence-trigger...

[Birthday60]

What sort of job is it - can reasonable adjustments be made help you? that is your first point to raise with your line manager or HR. Away from triggers, avoid public front facing - less moving around etc. If you have a record of teamwork, good quality work and are generally well behaved (!!) they will want to keep you as recruiting is very hard and costly... try asking now - dinner wait fir another absence.

[Mayneffy in reply to Birthday60]

Hi birthday, they said they have made an adjustment to my triggers, 2 days which doesn't help the current situation. I've asked to see occupational health and was 'suggested' I see my own doctor. I work in local government.

[Birthday60 in reply to Mayneffy]

Desk job? Back room?? Local government are very lax compared with private sector and you should you should be able to get something sorted as they don’t like adverse publicity

[Poobah in reply to Mayneffy]

Local government will have access to occupational health services. But if you're being refused access to OH then have a chat with the ACAS helpline, especially as the employer has requested that you see your own doctor. Might be useful to know what the employer was expecting from your doctor and if they are going to act upon the Dr's recommendations. It's all a bit vague and I get the impression the employer (manager) isn't consulting HR or HR aren't following protocols. acas.org.uk/getting-a-docto...

[Mayneffy in reply to Poobah]

Hi poobah, I suspect the employer is being too stringent with their processes and my line manager is just going along with it. I asked HR if I could discuss ways of not exaggerating my asthma with occupational health, they said I'd already recently had a medical review, (notice not an occupational health review) and if I had any further issues with my asthma I should see my own doctor as theirs is not a prescribing doctor (not what I was asking). I know all this is not right but until the union rep gets back to me I have no support. HR have also dated the level one report a week before I received it but only giving me 14 days to appeal. By the time the union rep gets his act together I would of ran out of time anyway.

[Poobah in reply to Mayneffy]

Times like this I wish I could spirit myself in, in order to help. 😔 Your appeal clock only starts from the date you receive the report. And I can understand why you don't wish to appeal without your union rep's support. My observations are;

1) the employer hasn't based the reasonable adjustments on an occupational health practitioner's review,

2) the medic, the employer sent you to see, isn't qualified to comment on the Equality Act or reasonable adjustments,

3) the decision re stage 1 has been made without reference to an occupational health review by a qualified practitioner and so the appeal should state that and that your request for an OH review was declined, despite your asthma potentially being covered by the Equality Act, and

4) an improvement plan has been imposed in respect of a medical condition that is potentially and likely to be considered a disability under the Equality Act and the adjustments are insufficient.

If you do go for another job, I hope you have a better employer. All the best Mayneffy.