Covid 19 vaccine

[Babbela]

Feeling concerned I've just read people with some kind of allergies have reacted in not a good way to the new vaccine covid 19 it leaves me feeling optimistic about it now as I have allergy problems which flares my asthma up constantly.

[twinkly29]

I think anyone with concerns needs to discuss it with their GP. Firstly the news reports will be hugely incorrect if all other reports about anything are to go by (so any specifics mentioned may not be correct but your GP should in time know the true info). Secondly people's perceptions of what constitutes "significant history of allergic reactions" will vary wildly. I don't at all mean you personally but some people with think that having sneezed once near a flower counts so their advice might not be terribly rational. But your GP should know - or allergy specialist if you have one.

[EmmaF91 Community Ambassador]

The article I’ve read say ‘significant history’ of allergies. Not 100% sure what they meant but I suspect it’s a history of anaphylaxis/allergy hosp admission maybe? The people who had the issue are epi-pen carriers for example.

I’m sure as things come out they will explain more about who can’t/shouldn’t have it.

Personally I can’t work out where I fall, as I’ve never had anaphylaxis, and I don’t carry an epi-pen (now), however I can and have had anaphylactoid reactions to a few things so 🤷‍♀️.

Us asthmatics are (at earliest) 4th on the list (unless we are 70+ or healthcare workers/carers) so hopefully when it comes to us they’ll be clearer on the guidelines.

[twinkly29 in reply to EmmaF91]

Good point about the time gap before our priority comes up!

[SteK78 in reply to EmmaF91]

Perhaps more surprising was that the two who had those reactions seemingly didn't mention ahaving a history of reactions before they had jab, but then again that can't be said for sure given the standard of reporting on these things in the media nowadays.

Interesting that Chris Smith said on BBC Breakfast earlier today that if aspirin was created today then it wouldn't get MHRA approval due to the list of potential side effects

[Loulou9000]

This news is very concerning! I carry epi pens for shell fish and mollusc allergies. I recently had the flu jab, after having a really bad time over 20 years ago and not having another since, eventually giving into the medical opinion it was a coincidence. I have cold induced asthma which can go into chest infections and pneumonia. I have had a couple of ear bendings since the previous last time of not having the flu jab from A&E staff as this was why I was in A&E.🙄 This time I was ill for three days dizzy, falling over one night, flu like aches and pains and unfortunately diarrhoea, Again told it was in my head! Now they are saying people who have severe reactions to medicines, food and other allergy reactions should hold off having the COVID vaccine! However saying that such reactions are common in other reactions such as flu vaccinations. Why do the medical professionals not listen to their patients, I obviously have a reaction, tell the truth and then we can deal with the information rather than treat us as idiots!

[mylungshateme]

I don't think we need to panic too much, any individual concerns speak with your gp or consultant to advice/reassure.

By the time we get the invite it won't be so new and we'll know more, and if that fails there is the oxford one around the corner.

I've had quite a few adverse reactions to things so I understand the concern 🙂.

[Poobah]

I read that both people had anaphylactic reactions not anaphylactic shock. Both were known allergy sufferers who carried epipens and their reactions didn't require use of their epipens. As with the flu shot, the patient is monitored after the shot is given to ensure any anaphylaxis is dealt with promptly. The vaccine teams have health monitors to care for patients, if the need arises. Details of the case are being shared with all NHS trusts and anyone with a known allergy to any of the ingredients will not be offered this particular vaccine.

[Jimmy-Lyden in reply to Poobah]

It should possibly be mentioned that anaphylactic reactions, which as far as I can see are things like hives etc, are miles away from anaphylactic shock.

[Poobah in reply to Jimmy-Lyden]

Exactly! Unfortunately, it doesn't make good headlines.

[Hidden in reply to Poobah]

the problem is only being able to read about this in news reports often written by fairly ignorant reporters. An allergic reaction can be a mild or severe event. Anaphylaxis is life threatening. I don't recognise a difference between 'anaphylactic reaction and anaphylactic shock.

Both affected people people were 'treated appropriately'....which implies they were given adrenaline. They didn't just recover without treatment.

It seems the culprit might be polyethylene glycol which is, I think, a preservative.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hello stones. Are you able to provide a link to the potential link with polyethylene glycol? I’d be very interested. Thanks.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

There are several mentions, here is one link and the relevant section from that link. It's quite reassuring.

reuters.com/article/health-...

However, the allergic reactions may have been caused by a component of Pfizer’s vaccine called polyethylene glycol, or PEG, which helps stabilise the shot and is not in other types of vaccines.

Imperial College London’s Paul Turner, an expert in allergy and immunology, who has been advising the MHRA on their revised guidance, told Reuters: “As we’ve had more information through, the initial concern that maybe it affects everyone with allergies is not true.”

“The ingredients like PEG which we think might be responsible for the reactions are not related to things which can cause food allergy. Likewise, people with a known allergy to just one medicine should not be at risk,” Turner told Reuters.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

So kind of you to find that for me, stones, I really appreciate it. As an Epipen holder (for previous severe drug reactions but never full blown anaphylaxis) this is good as I really want the vaccine & was worried no one would give it to me! It sounds as if the MHRA’s temporary suspension might soon be lifted 🤞Thanks again x

[Lysistrata Administrator Community Ambassador in reply to Jimmy-Lyden]

Did you mean to say 'allergic reactions' in the second part there?

Agree it is hard to know what happened with these kinds of reports. In general the media often seems to enjoy a negative slant with the vaccines I've noticed - they did a weirdly negative and terrible job of reporting some earlier results from the Oxford vaccine a few months back. I read the original paper and they just completely messed it up in at least one paper.

[Jimmy-Lyden in reply to Lysistrata]

The way it was explained was these reactions can be things like feeling a bit hot or a bit of breathlessness. Nothing major. This is why people are asked to wait behind for a short while, just in case there is any kind of reaction. It creates feedback. Nobody actually needed any intervention and after a while the reaction subsided. It happened to 2 people who carried epi pens on a daily basis and as such were susceptible to major allergic reactions.

[Jimmy-Lyden in reply to Jimmy-Lyden]

As an edit it should read "anaphylactoid" reaction, not "anaphylactic".

[Lysistrata Administrator Community Ambassador in reply to Jimmy-Lyden]

I didn't know the specific details here, but you mentioned 'anaphylactic reactions like hives'. As far as I'm aware hives can be a sign of an allergic reaction but not in themselves an indication of anaphylaxis. They may of course have had other reactions that suggest anaphylaxis, but wouldn't think hives alone would suggest that.

EDIT: just seen your edit re 'anaphylactoid'. Not familiar enough to know about this re hives - perhaps EmmaF91 or Js706 can shed more light?

[Jimmy-Lyden in reply to Lysistrata]

I'm guessing it's somewhere in the realms of "mild".

[EmmaF91 Community Ambassador in reply to Lysistrata]

The symptoms reported by the 2 patients mentioned so far was breathlessness, hives and a low blood pressure. To me it’s the blood pressure drop that switches the issue from mild allergy to anaphylactoid reaction.

Anaphylactoid reactions officially differ from anaphylaxis by the driver behind the issue. Anaphylaxis comes from a direct issue from the mast cell due to an allergen and is often IgE driven, whereas anaphylactoid reactions come from a non-immune related stimulus. They both can have the same presentation and both can become life-threatening untreated.

“Anaphylaxis is an immune mediated type I allergic reaction following the massive release of mediators from mast cells and basophils as a response to an allergen. Anaphylactoid reactions are defined as those reactions that produce the same clinical picture with anaphylaxis but are not IgE mediated, occur through a direct nonimmune-mediated release of mediators from mast cells and/or basophils or result from direct complement activation.” ( ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... )

That being said I don’t think anaphylactoid is being used in this sense. Medically speaking anaphylactoid is an old fashioned term, and is now covered under anaphylaxis. I think they are using it in a similar way people use brittle to describe asthma. So not as an actual condition but to describe how the reaction occurs. Whereas brittle asthma used to be used as the label for severe asthma, it in now used as a descriptor for those who drop hard and fast. I think anaphylactoid here is being used to describe a reaction worse than a normal hay fever-style allergy, but not as bad as full blown anaphylaxis (but with the potential to become/same symptoms but to a lesser degree).

Symptoms of anaphylaxis include;

feeling lightheaded or faint, breathing difficulties – such as fast, shallow breathing, wheezing, a fast heartbeat, clammy skin, confusion and anxiety, collapsing or losing consciousness. There may also be other allergy symptoms, including hives, feeling or being sick, swelling (angioedema) or stomach pain. (NHS: nhs.uk/conditions/anaphylax...

AUK/BLF have made a page about the vaccine ( blf.org.uk/support-for-you/... ) which basically says if you’ve needed to use an epi-pen or had adrenaline in hospital to treat an allergic reaction then you most likely will not be allowed this current vaccine.

I hope this helps anyone worried or confused.

[hilary39]

It is disheartening but as others have pointed out, allergy is such a broad term I think it's confusing people. The article on the BBC I read mentioned specifically people who 1) have severe food allergies requiring an EpiPen 2) people who've had anaphylactic shock from shots or vaccines in the past.

I also think it's promising that there are a half dozen other vaccines with different formulations that will be available soon and, in addition, 40 others in development [this article has a nice visual of the vaccine pipeline and great information about how the vaccines differ].

nytimes.com/interactive/202...

[SteK78 in reply to hilary39]

Nice to see someone else has bookmarked that NY Times article! Followed things on there since they first started developing vaccines and it's a great summary page – the protein based vaccines that'll come along next year sound especially promising for those who have allergies eg to eggs, but will be able to have those ones.

There are some amazing minds out there who figure all this stuff out who are doing great work with these vaccines

[SteK78 in reply to SteK78]

might've put the kibosh one of the protien vaccines, the promising one from Sanofi/GSK hasn't been as effective in older adults as expected so they're having to do a revised phase 2 trial next year, hopefully it'll still come through (it does also feature on the government's list of pre-ordered vaccine doses so here's hoping)

[Tigerpaws]

The people who have reacted and many allergies to start with so unless you're health is similar, please don't be worried.

[utkmybrthawy]

I share the concern. So vague; which allergies? I have grass, dander, animal allergies. Or do they mean food allergies? Maybe they mean AUTOIMMUNE issues in general. We'll see.

[EmmaF91 Community Ambassador in reply to utkmybrthawy]

Right now they mean allergies that have resulted in anaphylaxis or the need for adrenaline and hospitalisation.

[Loulou9000 in reply to EmmaF91]

Yes they mean allergy sufferers who require to carry an epi pen. due to the type of allergen triggering a severe over reaction to their immune systems.

This means a person at high risk of death if the correct treatment is not administered in time. The epi pen being the first aid treatment before appropriate treatment in a hospital. Death from allergic reactions is incredibly rare, delay in appropriate treatment or overdose of adrenaline being the main cause.

The NHS workers were administered the appropriate treatment so were most probably in a hospital or clinical setting having their vaccines. This will be why it was reported they didn’t use their epi pens. Does not mean they didn’t get the appropriate treatment, they did as also reported.

I wish more information would be given, trying to play these things down so as not to cause panic and concern often has the opposite reaction and people worry and are fed misinformation.

The side effect has possibly come to light now because such populations would not have participated in trials and now two people with severe allergic reactions have come to light in the first day.

They are correct to advise epi pen carriers not to have this vaccine yet because the scientists will not know why this has occurred because it wasn’t considered on the trials. They need to look at the data again.

General allergies that do not cause such severe reactions are not what they are talking about. But it is always best to discuss with your medical professionals.

It is upsetting being 6th on the list to being removed from the list for now. Maybe the will require this group of allergy sufferers to be vaccinated in hospital so any potential reaction can be monitored and treated if or when it occurs.