Website in Spain for Pregnant Women and Mothers

[PeterN]

Forum of information, support and self-help

for pregnant women and recent mothers that have any kind of psychological suffering

or mental disorder that hinders or prevents them from fully enjoying motherhood.

[Ellie_at_APP Partner]

Thank you for sharing this Petern. I hope you are doing ok. Ellie x

[PeterN in reply to Ellie_at_APP]

Thank you Ellie, Rosa and I continue to recover from our loss. We have different methods of coping. Rosa's is a much more internal process, while I have to put a voice to the things Sara left unsaid.

Things continue to develop here in Spain, Dra. Ibone Olza of the Instituto Europeo de Salud Mental Perinatal (European Institute of Perinatal Mental Health) in Madrid has taken a major role in making sure Sara's story gets the attention of the medical establishment and elevating information about PP among both health care providers and the general public.

A big hug to all the survivors and their loved ones.

Peter and Rosa XXOO

[Ellie_at_APP Partner in reply to PeterN]

Dear Peter - and Rosa, you are in my thoughts, I can't imagine how to cope with what you have had to cope with... I guess you must just need to take each day as it comes...

It's wonderful the links you have made in Spain, and that you are trying to get Sara's story out there, among the medical establishment, and general public. I know it can be a slow process but it's great that you have found those people who can support you, and help you raise awareness too. Since APP started here 7 years ago, the amount of awareness we have raised, and the changes we have seen in the UK has been enormous, so you can definitely achieve amazing things.

It's special to have you with us on here, walking alongside each other. Never hesitate to let us know if there is anything else we as APP can help you with too.

Ellie XX

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter

Just wanted to pop in and congratulate you on such a brilliant website full of information under the heading Mamas are Important! I must admit to using Google translate as I'm not fluent in Spanish You have gathered together so many professionals to offer support to pregnant women and mothers who may be suffering in silence as well as their families.

I'm so sorry for your loss and hope you and your wife find strength and a measure of comfort through your faith. I'm sure your family and grandchildren give you a glimmer of hope and much love.

Thinking of you, Peter and Rosa ..... take care. xx

[PeterN]

Hi Lilybeth,

I just want to clear up that I am NOT the founder or creator of the website in question and that I am in awe of all that you (collective) do here at APP! I am taking the liberty of attaching a note that wrote to my family to explain what I was doing (they don't understand completely, I have that effect on people, ).

I started this journey with the first Google search item I could find on the subject: Action on Postpartum Psychosis.

I started pouring through posts crying at all the stories of suffering, applauding all the bravery and the victories achieved over time, gasping at the incredible insensitivities suffered, and amazed at the differences in experiences depending on geographical location.

One mother had mentioned the incredible work of an Australian doctor so I contacted her.

She (Dr. Anne Elizabeth Buist, University of Melbourne) was extremely helpful and immediately recommended that I contact an ex-graduate student of her's who was working in Spain, Dr. Miguel Sandonís Vicente, psychiatrist attached to the perinatal ward of Vall d'Hebron Hospital in Barcelona.

I contacted him with some difficulty, as we are both in Spain, and one of us was not in Australia or Botswana, but again he was very kind and listened with great interest. He sincerely felt that my inputs might be of some value, but he stated he was not in a position to extend an invitation to me. He would converse with those who had that authority and would get back to me.

Apparently that conversation did not go well, as I haven't heard again from Dr. Sandonis. When I posted my updates to the blog on APP, a mother asked me, "have you tried Postpartum Support International (PSI)?" She emphasized the "I" in international.

Red faced, I looked under the S section for Spain on the PSI website and sure enough, there were three names for contacts in Spain! So I started researching! the male figure listed at the top of the list was in the Valencia area.

He may be the best doctor in the western hemisphere, but something in his online bio told me to keep looking. There was an also an American woman listed, but I made another prejudiced decision to avoid connecting with an expatriate.

I was about to say forget this, but then I said, there's just one more entry, so what the heck! I am sure glad that I did!

I have made contact with a psychiatrist whose life's work has been dedicated to perinatal mental health. Dr. Ibone Olza is the director of the European Institute for Perinatal Mental Health in Madrid. She and her staff have trained over 1000 professionals and graduate students in very specific courses related to women's mental health issues.

When I contacted Ibone, we had this very surreal moment, when, after my first email, she says "wait a minute, a redhead girl named Sara came to my book signing in Zaragoza...then she wrote to me on Facebook..."I'm expecting my second child in October...I would like to share the story of what happened to me, if it would help other mothers.."

Yes, believe it or not, my Sara reached out to Ibone, the same woman that I found on my fool's quest through the internet. Her husband, Romu has the book, "Parir" (To Give Birth) that Sara got signed that day. You can call it coincidence or serendipity or whatever you like, I believe that everything happens for a reason (God's plan), and our Sara and all of us are still working it out.

I'll keep you all informed as things develop!

Love to you all,

Peter and Rosa OOXXOO

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter

Sorry for the oversight ........ I think you have been dedicated in raising awareness of PP in Spain.

Your account of the book signing gave me goosebumps and in a way must give you strength to know that your daughter wanted to share her story, although heartbreaking in many other ways for you and your family.

Looking forward to your next update. Best wishes to your wife and family.

Take care. xx

[Ellie_at_APP Partner]

Dear Peter,

It is amazing to hear your journey to connecting with the professionals in Spain, particularly this one doctor who it sounds like has been doing an amazing job of raising awareness. How amazing that your daughter had reached out to her - serendipity as you say, a kind of plan. You are doing so amazing in finding out so much and making these connections, do take care of yourself too.

We are thinking of you,

Ellie X

[PeterN in reply to Ellie_at_APP]

Thank you Ellie! The journey has started and there is lot of promise. APP has been a constant source of inspiration and comfort.

All our thoughts and prayers for the moms on the forum!

Peter and Rosa

[PeterN in reply to Ellie_at_APP]

Dear Ellie,

I'm sorry to bother you, please don't take time away from the moms. I sent a personal email to the contact page asking for something for the website. Perhaps I was clumbsy or tactless in my manners?

I am horrified that I offended the people that I admire so much! Please let the rest of the staff know that was not my intention in anyway and forgive me if I was out of bounds.

Sincerely,

Peter

[Ellie_at_APP Partner in reply to PeterN]

Hi Peter,

I don't check the main email so was trying to track down what email you meant which I have done now You definitely aren't bothering us, please don't hesitate to contact us for anything. Our Office Manager has forwarded it to the relevant people (our director and Operations Manager) and we will get back to you.

So yes, not out of bounds at all, and we really hope we may be able to help you. Our director and Ops Manager are quite busy, and we all work part time, so may just take a few days to reply.

Take care Peter, it looks like you're achieving so much!

Ellie X

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter

I hope you and your family are well, perhaps even on holiday I'm sure you are continuing to highlight awareness of PP in Spain in memory of your daughter.

Best wishes ..... take care.

[PeterN in reply to Lilybeth]

Hi Lilybeth! We were on a short vacation to the beach with Sara's lovely children (Sam 2 and 1/2 years and Phil 9 months old), the wonderful legacy she left us. The temperature has been as high as 40c in the shade so the beach is the only option!

On the PP front I haven't heard much on the release of the insider guides to us for translation. Perhaps there was a problem on the terms of the release, oh bother! In any case Dr Olza (Ibone) wrote a lovely article in her blog about Sara (using another name for her), unfortunately for English readers it is in Spanish only.

I have been working on an English version but need to get Ibone's okay to release it to the "wild". I could send you a working copy to your email (or Hannah's, or Ellie) to get you to review it for me? I never understood the complexity of translation until now!

Lots of love to all the PP moms and their families and loved ones!

Peter and Rosa in Zaragoza

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter and Rosa

How lovely for you to have had a short family break, keeping cool on the beach in such hot weather. Even here in the UK we have had record temperatures

I think Hannah, Ellie or Jenny who moderate the forum will be in touch shortly about translations and review of your working copy. You must have been very proud and emotional to read Dr Olza's article about your treasured daughter.

I think you write so well in English, Peter, much better than any attempt I could make with Spanish!

Take care and enjoy the rest of the Summer. Love to you both. xx

[Hannah_at_APP Administrator]

Hi Peter & Rosa,

It's good to read your updates and I hope you are enjoying the sun and sea - the weather has been lovely in England (for once!) so far this summer too so it's been nice to get out and about. The seaside is always a lovely place to spend time with little ones, I am sure you are making some treasured memories and Sara would have been so proud to see you all.

I just wanted to let you know that with part-time working and annual leave over the summer, your request about the translations has not been forgotten or refused; it's just that with people off at different times we haven't been able to progress as quickly as we might have liked I'm afraid. We are a small charity with big aspirations but only a small staff team (plus of course our wonderful volunteers). Please send an email to [e-mail] and someone will be in touch before long. It may be September but if you are working with Dr Olza and others locally to any kind of timescales/ deadlines, please do let us know too and we will try our best on that.

I hope you enjoy the rest of the summer, take care, xx

[PeterN in reply to Hannah_at_APP]

Thanks Hannah,

The work done by APP's staff and team of volunteers is invaluable! We too are affected by the summer vacation period and hope that we can proceed by Sept with the website.

I will pass along a copy of Sara's story for APP's review (I'm just asking for some survivors insight before we go live).

Many thanks and big hugs all around,

Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter and Rosa

Just wondering how you are. We have had a lovely Summer here in the UK and are now into the colourful season of Autumn with shorter days as the nights draw in.

I hope you and your family are well. Take care. xx

[PeterN in reply to Lilybeth]

Hi Lilybeth, it has been a lovely summer, busy and hot! The grandsons are full of energy and growing like weeds! Little Sam is a rambunctious two year old and is extremely verbal for his age! His little brother Phil will be turning one this Oct 8 and is just taking his first few cautious steps to follow his big brother around the house! We took them to the beach for a few days in August and they had grand old time in the waves and in the sand.

Rosa still has hard days when wish Sara was here to experience these joys with us, but I comfort myself saying that she is looking down at us and watching us all the time.

Much Love to you and yours,

Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I did smile about your very good description of your grandchildren growing like weeds, which is so true with mine too. My two young grandaughters are coming to me for a sleepover tomorrow so I'm looking forward to their sparkle around the house!

It must be a difficult month for you and your wife as your youngest grandson turns one soon. Your daughter must be so proud of all your efforts to highlight PP and I too believe we are watched over until we meet again.

Take care. xx

[Ellie_at_APP Partner]

Dear Peter

It’s lovely to see your update and to hear your enjoyment of your grandchildren who sound wonderful. It sounds like you’re having such special time with them. It must be painful without your daughter, I’m thinking of you and your family.

Ellie xx

[Hidden]

Hi Peter,

thinking of you and your family, too. It was good to read your little account about your grandchildren and how much they enjoy the sea and sunshine.

Take good care,

x

[PeterN]

Rosa and I have been overjoyed by the outpouring of support and love of the mother, volunteers and staff off APP ;)) !

All of you have been bright stars in our dark times these 8 months (nearly a pregnancy) since Sara left us in the middle of the night.

Apart from the love of grandchildren she left us, our greatest passion is promoting information about the illness that took her from us. Dr Ibone Olza has done a labor of love reacounting her personal contact with Sara in her website. eipmh.com/requiem-for-aurora/

It is now in an English version (if it doesn't read very well, it is my fault for the poor translation, it is beautiful in Spanish). Sara's name was changed to Aurora by request of my son in laws family as the stigma of mental health here is still too strong for most families to talk about openly.

It is our desire that this story can be shared with as many health care professionals and families whose members might be unfamiliar with PP and its tremendous danger if left untreated or misdiagnosed.

All our love to the APP family,

Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter

Thank you so much for your kind words. We have all been privileged to listen and be there for you and your wife in such distressing circumstances.

I found Dr Olza's recollection of her personal contact with your daughter so moving and even the title "Requiem for Aurora" so sad. All the more so as I didn't realise this wasn't the first time she had experienced the trauma of PP. As you say, it is so important for health care professionals and families to be aware.

I think your daughter would be very proud that with your help, however heartbreaking to recall, Dr Olza is telling her story to benefit other mums in Spain who might not be aware of such risks after the joy of a baby being born. The comfort in such a tragedy, if any, is that your daughter's love and spirit lives on in your treasured grandchildren.

Love to to you and your family, Peter. xx

[Jenny_at_APP Partner]

Hello Peter

Thank you for sharing Dr Olza’s beautiful Requiem, it is heartbreaking but I’m sure it will help so many.

I hope little Phil has enjoyed turning one today and you’re ok, it must be a hard day for you all but it’s wonderful that your grandchildren bring you such joy.

Much love,

Jenny x

[Ellie_at_APP Partner]

Dear Peter,

It's lovely to read your latest message. You really are an inspiration, and it is very moving to hear how you have found our support helpful. As others have said it really has been a huge privilege to walk alongside you.

The story Dr Olza has written is so very moving. APP will be sharing it on our social media etc, we are just working on the message we'll be sending out with it. It is amazing what you have achieved already, in trying to raise awareness in Spain.

It's wonderful to hear how much love and joy you are receiving from your grandchildren. Lots of love, to you and your family XX

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter

I hope you are your wife are well and your grandchildren, as you described, are still growing like weeds .... as are mine I think Papa Noel visits Spain before the UK and there is great excitement as he is only 2 sleeps away now!

I'm sure it is a very reflective and emotional time remembering your treasured daughter. Faith tells me that we all meet again and until then I'm sure her loving spirit is with you always.

feliz Navidad Peter to you and your family!! Take care. xx

[PeterN in reply to Lilybeth]

Merry Xmas Lillibeth! We get a one hour head start on our overeating festivities here! We are celebrating the spirit of joy that was Sara with her beautiful children, Sammy and Felipe, her husband Romu and their family. They are such a blessing to us with their nonstop activity!

The mental health nonprofit organization here in Zaragoza (asapme.org/) held an informational conference for non professionals “Depresión y maternidad: un problema silenciado” or in English, "Depression and maternity: a problem silenced" , on 17 December 2018. Special emphasis was given to Postpartum Psychosis as having the double stigma of a mental illness and occurring in postpartum where our society ignores the reality of the complex health and social issues facing women.

Rosa and I have complete faith that Sara's life had purpose and impact far beyond what we can comprehend. Everyday we see the ripples of some of her impact in the lives of those around us who have been changed forever. We will be together again.

All our love to you and yours and to the extended APP family who are our inspiration with their stores of courage. love and enduring.

Love, Faith, and Peace

Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer in reply to PeterN]

Thank you Peter ..... I hope Papa Noel left all the toys your grandchildren wished for

The emphasis on Postpartum Psychosis at the conference sounds like a very positive move forward, highlighting that more consideration needs to be given to women who can suffer in silence. I'm sure your daughter is pleased with the effect her story will have on health care professionals and families as her loving presence is near you.

We are all very privileged to be with you (virtually) to hear of such good progress in Spain ...... step by step.

Love, Faith and Peace to you and your loving family.

[Hidden]

Wishing you well, too.

Feliz Navidad!

Look after yourself.

x

[PeterN in reply to Hidden]

¡Feliz Navidad! All our love to you and your family for the holiday season. May God bless you all with health, happiness, and joy in the New Year!

Peter , Rosa , Romu and his family (Sammy leaving the terrible two's soon I pray, and Felipe just 1 and months now)

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter

I hope you and your family are well. I'm sure your daughter's spirit in her children is a great comfort to you. Sadly on the forum last month there was a post from a mother whose daughter tragically took her life. Hopefully there will eventually be more awareness of this awful illness in Spain and beyond.

Wishing you good health, peace and lots of joy with your treasured grandchildren Thinking of you .... take care.

[PeterN]

Hi Lilibeth!

We also read her story with much sadness and anguish in our hearts. Our frustration grows everyday at the amount of time it takes for the campaign to gain momentum.

We were so lucky to have a sponsor so dedicated to mental health like ASAPME here in Aragon. Yet many attendees to the conference were still content to say that current efforts were sufficient (euros invested verses number of patients concerned)!

I struggle to remain convinced that eventually the work will begin in earnest. Meanwhile Sami and Phil remind us everyday of the amazing person that was their mother.

Blessings to you and your family.

Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter,

Lovely to hear from you! It's such a shame that the campaign is taking time to move forward, especially after the very moving "Requiem for Aurora" written by Dr Olza. It is very frustrating when the cost of such important awareness of vulnerable women is outweighed by how much money is on the table.

You have had a lot of courage to share your sadness for the benefit of helping others. I hope the wheels will be set in motion soon to highlight the campaign. I'm sure your daughter's love surrounds you and will keep you strong, as well as the joy of your grandchildren.

Love to you and Rosa. xx

[Ellie_at_APP Partner]

Dear Peter

I'm so sorry that you are finding it hard in Spain to get people to realise the importance of having good perinatal mental health care, and awareness and education about postpartum psychosis for all professionals who will come into contact with mothers, and families themselves to be given information. I agree, it's absolutely heartbreaking to hear of tragedies that could have been prevented with more awareness of who is at risk, and the ways it can be prevented, as well as cases of PP being spotted quickly and the right support being given.

We are lucky here in England to have had a lot of development in perinatal mental health, there are now specialist perinatal mental health teams right across England. APP are training a lot of professionals in PP and we're hoping to reach many more this year and really get the message out there.

I think of you and your family a lot Peter, and hope you are all OK, despite everything you have had to cope with and hold. I really hope you're able to get more achieved in Spain, and real change to happen.

Take care

Ellie X

[PeterN in reply to Ellie_at_APP]

Hi Ellie,

Dra Olza and her team continue train more professionals at the institute for perinatal mental health, but to me seems to be so many grains of sand on such large beach...

I just wish I could see more people in the general population seeing the impact of the illness on families!

All our love to the APP family!

Peter and Rosa

[Pikorua Volunteer]

Hello Peter and Rosa,

It is so lovely to hear from you again.

I am sorry that the motions of awareness raising in Spain is not at its pace where it should be. Empathy is not shared, if quantifying issues, such as financing research and education for PPP is not seen as "profound" enough or seen as a comparative to other illness "as not sufficient in numbers.

The suffering of families is unbearable, especially in your situation.

Unfortunately the treatment I received in Somerset was not in an MBU, and I suffered greatly, because of misdiagnosis and ill treatment (physically and emotionally due to none-awareness and lack of knowledge for care and treatment) in a Psychiatric Hospital. I was offered an MBU place in Manchester, too far away for my partner...

However, I am pleased to say there is now the availability of an MBU facility in Exeter and Bristol.

I still suffered in silence for another 5 years until I found APP...raising awareness of PPP and APP through my art exhibition has been a difficult personal challenge, but I felt it had to be done!

Somerset is now in its infant stages of developing a perinatal team...there are still huge gaps in supporting and helping mums with post-natal mental health challenges in my area...

Thus, I admire your engagement, encouragement and focus for your mission and in the name of your beautiful daughter...

Please, make sure you look after yourself! Enjoy the moments with your grandchildren,

x

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter and Rosa

Thinking of you and wondering how you are? The weather in the UK is unusually hot, even hotter I think than Spain ... until Wednesday next week at least

Wishing you and your family a very Happy Easter with the hope that we will all meet our loved ones who have gone too soon, one day. Take care. x

[Pikorua Volunteer]

Yes, happy Easter dearest Peter and Rosa. Wishing you health and happiness,

x

[PeterN]

Hi Everyone and indeed Happy Easter!

We deeply miss our beloved Sara with her incredible energy and boundless joy, but her two beautiful sons were her generous gift of love to us.

We tell them every day what a special mom they have (and one day we will be with her again!).

All of our love to the courageous moms and their loved ones of the forum!

Peter and Rosa in not so sunny Spain!

[Ellie_at_APP Partner]

Dear Peter and Rosa

Happy Easter to you too... we think of you often, I’m so glad that your grandchildren are bringing you joy and that you can tell them about their mum and how special she was.

Lots of love to you all

Ellie

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter and Rosa

Hoping you and your family are safe and well during the very hot weather in Spain 🌞. Here in the UK we have an unexpected heatwave which we are trying to make the most of as it might all change next week!

I hope Dr Olza and her team are making steady progress in raising awareness of PP and your treasured grandchildren continue to bring you joy as your daughter surrounds you all with her love.

Very best wishes to your family. Take care. x

[PeterN]

Hi Lilybeth!

I am reeling from the 43.5 C today (a record for Zaragoza in June), the worst being that tonight it won't go below 23C at any point, so poor sleeping tonight (my heart goes out to all the moms and moms to be).

Dr Olza`s last campaign (a few weeks ago), concerned the treatment of moms with mental health issues in Spanish (and basically all countries) news media. I was quite distressed by the small number of "professionals" who were brave enough to stand up and be counted (and sign the press release).

I can only suppose that the "power" of the media to potentially "black list" professionals who "go against the grain" was responsible for the lukewarm response.

I am convinced that true progress in women´s mental health issues will not be made until we as a community speak with one voice ANY time a woman is victimized by the system ( including , but not limited to: NHS, Local. National. European Government legislation, or the media.)

If we keep the "this is not my fight" attitude, nobody wins,

Trying to remain positive and upbeat here in Spain.

Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter

Thanks for replying .... so hot last night!! Hottest day of the year so far yesterday 'only' 34C though (!) but hopefully cooler today!

I'm sorry to hear Dr Olza's campaign received a lukewarm response and women's health doesn't seem to be top of the agenda for some. Good that you are trying to remain positive .... I like to think there is always hope.

Stay cool and safe

[Pikorua Volunteer]

Hello Peter,

thank you so much for the update...political engagement can be rather frustrating when the focus is not given and a voice only partially heard...

The glass has to be half full, especially in difficult times...there are a lot of fantastic people out there, who are working towards improvement for mums with mental health challenges...in my area it is difficult and always down to lack of money...it is still a lottery game...and in Somerset we are still in our infant stages. I keep going!!!

Yes, hope and passion is my way forward. Take good care !!!

x

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter

I hope you are coping well in the heat ... 34C in your corner of the world today? Here in the UK we are experiencing unusually high temperatures so trying to enjoy the last of the Summer before unsettled weather returns during next week.

I hope there will be some progress in Spain to support vulnerable women and raise awareness about postpartum psychosis.

Take care .... best wishes to Rosa and your family.

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter

I hope you are well.

Five sleeps until Papa Noel's visit to Spain 🎅 ..... I'm sure your daughter's joy and spirit are with you every day along with the blessing of your precious grandchildren and family.

Wishing you love and peace.

Take care .....best wishes to Rosa and your family.

[PeterN in reply to Lilybeth]

Hi Lilibeth!

Sorry that I took so long to reply! You are such a source of joy and comfort for Rosa and me. We had a challenging Christmas/New Years/3 Kings here.

We have a rocky relationship with our son-in-laws family and the holidays sometimes don't bring out the best in our interpersonal skills. We spent the end of the year and 3 kings day (the Spanish traditional Christmas) without our grandchildren.

To top things off it's the 2nd anniversary of Sara's passing, and we both came down with the worst case of Flu!

God is showing us how much more humility and forgiveness we need to have in dealing with others and to trust more in that He has a plan for us. What has happened to us must have a reason and we just need to keep on doing what we can, be patient and try to help others.

There are so many in need much greater than our own, but we are so self centered we can't see it and fail to appreciate all that we do have and enjoy.

I have to confess that I have loss faith (in the humans) involved in promoting PPS and feel that the women, children and their families are lost among the competing "personalities" and "experts" .

I would let my rage boil over on those who would simplify PPS as "un-diagnosed bipolar syndrome" or as "too rare to warrant the resources for more investigation".

The real problem in my twisted thinking is there is no "beautiful, heart wrenching, poster child for PPS". I can only see the horrific images the media showed on TV for weeks of a naked mother, with tangled hair, pulled out of 55 gallon drum, surrounded by 3 police and a snarling attack dog, arrested after she drowned her two infant children in an episode of PPS.

Until we as a society deal with real empathy with the struggles of all mothers (and most especially those who suffer PPS), no change is possible. Change is only possible with dialog, and if we avoid talking about what hurts us most we do a great disservice to society.

You, Lilibeth, and your sisters here on the forum, have been part of the instrument for change, but I firmly believe this discussion must become mainstream, not isolated away in a "safe place" where it won't disturb people.

I understand the mothers need a safe place to go for them to heal and recover and that this forum is for them 1st and foremost, and it needs to stay like that.

But its time people got disturbed about PPS.

All our love to you and whole APP staff

Hugs and Kisses

Peter and Rosa

[Ellie_at_APP Partner]

Dear Peter and Rosa

Thanks so much for your update, I'm so sorry that Christmas, new year and 3 kings were difficult for you, it must be such a painful time of year for you as well. You are in my thoughts a lot.

I'm so sorry as well that you feel there hasn't been any progress with things in Spain regarding raising awareness and getting specialised support for women with PP. It has been many years of raising awareness here in the UK, against the kind of opinions that you detail, that PP is rare so no need to invest or give specialist support, or raise awareness of it. Yes, it's quite rare (though perinatal psychiatrists I speak to here say that it isn't actually that rare, given the birth rate etc), but the consequences if people don't get the right support and early diagnosis can be devastating, as you so tragically know....

Also here there was such negative stories in the media, as you say, where women were portrayed as mad, deranged, evil etc, rather than unwell and needing the right support. And often if tragedies happen it is because the professionals actually weren't trained in PP and so hadn't intervened or spotted the signs early enough, as you know.

Luckily here in the UK there has been massive progress and awareness raising, with specialist perinatal mental health teams all over England, and it's been announced that all midwives here will now receiving training in postpartum psychosis. I think as well we have tried to get out as many stories as possible in the media of women who had PP to try and raise awareness and break stigma, we have amazing media volunteers who bravely do this for us.

Anyway... I'm waffling on, your message with your thoughts provoked a lot, I recognise so much your frustrations, and pain. I mainly wanted to say we are with you all, and thinking of you... sending you love and strength.

Ellie XX

[PeterN in reply to Ellie_at_APP]

Thank you Ellie! So encouraging to hear about all the success stories! I tend to see the glass half empty which doesn't help at all!

Love,

Peter

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter and Rosa

Lovely to hear from you ....you have brightened a cloudy day I'm sorry that Christmas and 3 Kings were challenging for you, especially being your daughter's anniversary and having a bad dose of the Flu!

I can understand how disheartened you must be about the slow progress of awareness of PP in Spain, especially as I noticed the European Institute of Perinatal Mental Health launched the campaign in collaboration with APP on the occasion of World Mental Health Day 2019. You probably know the website at eipmh.com/postpartum-psycho.... As you say it is such a shame that the media focus on women who harm their children when in reality it is very rare. In my own story I never wanted to harm my newborn, only myself, as I was hearing a voice telling me I was a bad mother.

As Ellie mentioned, here in the UK there has been a good response with some great people involved in raising awareness of PP. We can only hope Peter that perhaps the European Institute of Perinatal Mental Health will review this campaign as a priority. I hope your faith will keep you strong.

Thinking of you both ...... take good care. xx

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter

Thinking about you and wonder how you and Rosa are coping with restrictions due to the Cornoavirus? I really hope you are both well and your family too.

It is quite a worrying time here in the UK with social spaces closed and out of bounds. It has just been announced that school in England will close on Friday in addition to Wales and Scotland.

Take care and stay safe .... your APP family is sending love across the miles ❤️

[PeterN in reply to Lilybeth]

Hi Lilibeth!

Hope you and all of yours are weathering the CV crisis without too much distress!

We are all healthy (thanks to God!), as Rosa's mother is in an institution for the elderly (she has dementia senile) and several have been stricken severely by the virus.

We are all in lock down per government order for at least 30 days and it is not pleasant, with only essential outside trips permitted (grocery shopping only, pharmacy, hospital, work for essential workers, and a few other exceptions. No social visits permitted or free air exercise except for children on the spectrum).

Our grandchildren are with our inlaws so we only get to see them via skype or whatsup, but better than nothing!

All our love to the APP family and God bless in this difficult time!

Peter and Rosa

[Pikorua Volunteer]

Hello Peter,

so good to hear from you. As Lilybeth already explained we are just catching up with EU's measures, the UK's politicians "herd immunisation" was totally out of bounce.

I have been in touch with family and friends in Italy, Spain and Germany and 2 cousins living and working in the far East.

Capitalism and greed will not work anymore in a pandemic crisis and people will have to change their mind set quite drastically.

Mother Earth is allowed to breath again, but it will be at a cost of human kind.

I hope that humanity will win and love and kindness is going to be at the forefront of those, who are most in need.

Wishing you well and thank you so much for raising awareness of PPP in Spain.

Take good care and stay healthy x

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter and Rosa

So happy to hear you are all well although finding government restrictions not pleasant.

I was listening to the radio this morning and as it's Mother's Day here in the UK on Sunday, a government official said it should be cancelled to avoid the spread of the virus!

Thankfully we are not in lockdown yet although social gatherings are frowned upon and many restaurants and venues are closed. I've been out today as I care for my elderly father and there is panic buying in the shops ..... which is ridiculous and stressful!

It's good that technology allows you to see your grandchildren I hope before too long you will have their company as they are a joy beyond measure!

Thinking of you in my prayers as we look towards Easter. Stay safe ❤️

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter,

Hoping you are well and coping with restrictions. Here in the UK we have been in lockdown for five weeks now, until a review on 7th May. So different avoiding everyone and not being sociable but statistics are quite worrying. We are allowed out to shop for food and exercise once a day, maintaining a safe distance.

I'm staying connected with my grandchildren via zoom calls As you say, not the same but needed to keep us all safe.

Thinking of you ...... God bless you and your family.

[PeterN in reply to Lilybeth]

Hi Liliybeth!

As usual, your posts bring a little more light into our day! Many thanks for keeping us in your thoughts and prayers! We just past the 40 day point in total lock down (only essential workers allowed out, no outside exercise, only trips by one family to grocery shop or pharmacy!

Today the government relented a little and allowed children under 14 to go outside for 1 hour accompanied by one parent or caregiver (no friends or grandparents allowed). We too Skype as often as possible with our grandchildren (Sammy,4 years old now, told me "grandpa, when are you going to come out of the tablet (his father's mobile screen)?")

We have dropped below the 1% new cases per day (under 300 deaths / day) , they say that means we have "turned the corner" and if things continue to improve, in May the adults will start to be allowed outside in a stages.

I can't help believe that the economics will drive the timing much more that any health concerns, but call me a pessimist. If Spain is not open for business by June, the job losses will be disastrous.

I really don't know how this will all work out, but I'm going to try and take each day as it comes and be thankful that we are healthy and happy, so many people have had heartbreaking losses.

All our love to the APP family the the wonderful volunteers!

Love and Hugs!

Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter

Thank you so much .... lovely to hear that you are healthy and happy. As you say, I think all we can do is try and take each day as it comes.

There was a fundraising event screened last week "The Big Night In" to support charities and projects in the UK. The surprise for me was that during a clip about mental health, one of the APP volunteers bravely talked for a short time about her Postpartum Psychosis experience ... so that was a great highlight in raising awareness. Hopefully when things come together in Spain again, mental health will be a priority, so that pregnant women and mothers will have a voice.

I think our grandchildren have a way of lifting our spirits ... even from a distance. How funny your grandson's comment was that you were in the tablet My grandaughters have sent me their painting of a rainbow, in the post, with 'Never Stop Wishing' written at the top of the page. Bless them all!

Take good care of yourself ..... love and hugs to you and your treasured family.

[Ellie_at_APP Partner]

Hi Peter and Rosa

I just wanted to say hello, it was good to hear your news in these strange times and to hear that you are safe and well. Things are so difficult at the moment aren't they? It must be so hard not to see your grandchildren, so sweet what your grandson asking when you'll come out of the screen I do hope you'll be able to see them soon and give them a big hug.

My parents live in London, and aren't leaving the house at all, so we are in a similar situation, and haven't seen them for a few months, we had been planning to visit at Easter. The most important thing though is that we are safe and healthy. It's heartbreaking to hear of all the people who have died.

Do take care, Ellie X

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter

I hope by now you have come out of the tablet for your grandson and you are all safe and well. Some restrictions have been lifted here so my grandchildren are now allowed to visit, which is the highlight of my week! They have grown so much, bless them all.

I was listening to the radio yesterday and apparently although Churches are now opening to welcome more people, there will be no singing as this might cause a problem in spreading the virus.

Like you, I'm taking each day as it comes and thankful that we are healthy and happy. I use public transport mainly and now have to wear a face covering. Still, we are the fortunate ones.

Thinking of you and Rosa .... love and hugs to you and your treasured family.

[PeterN in reply to Lilybeth]

Hi Lilibeth!

WARMING RANT AHEAD! MOMS DON'T READ THIS

We are out of the screen!! The migrant workers at the peach orchards (living in horrid conditions that were never news worthy before, humm?!) have restarted the flu in a neighboring community, so we are holding our breath!

First it was the workers at the meat packing plants here (then in Germany), when are we going to learn that substandard living conditions for anyone is a risk for all of us??

But if we don't see it, it seems we don't care about it. It reminds me a bit of women with PPS. As long as they stay out of the news (ie front page of the tabloids "Crazy mom trys to kill her own kids, runs naked out of hospital and bites dog!!"), society could care less.

When I feel better I will write sometime more positive!

Love

Peter

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter

It's good to have a rant as we have been cooped up for so long ..... you are only worrying for your family.

I did see a programme with Simon Reeve about some migrant workers abroad and their living conditions ..... it did make me stop to think how lucky we are and how sad that their hopes of a better life were not met. I think there are similar stories around the world.

We are all trying to lift the stigma around PP and hopefully challenge those front page news stories to be seen for what they are ..... a mother's cry for help.

Take care and stay safe.

[PeterN in reply to Lilybeth]

Hi Lilybeth,

Thank you for your calming words! I was out of sorts yesterday! I really do try and stay positive, but the news lately really got to me.

We do have a lot to be thankful for, our grandsons are growing up happy and healthy, we have avoided this horrible virus (even Rosa's 88 year old mother in the nursing home), and we have been able to maintain our relationship with our daughter's husband and his family.

We don't lack for anything and yet sometimes we complain about the smallest things and throw tantrums like a 2 year old child who doesn't get their way. I hope that I can mature just a little bit more before I leave this plane of existence.

Sometimes we are refined by fire, I know I still have a lot of impurities to sort out, but if there is just a smoldering mote left by the end, I will consider myself blessed!

One of my many blessings was to have met (virtually) the moms of this forum whose courage, love, and dedication to others has been of great inspiration to Rosa and me.

All our love to all the Moms and their beautiful babies!

Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter

Good to hear from you.

I do sometimes have to take a break from the news as it is so worrying at times. I worry mostly for my family as we all do.

I am with you on your thought that we don't lack for anything yet sometimes complain about the smallest things. For instance, this morning my internet connection is very hit and miss and I have tried to reply a few times but the screen has frozen ....... very frustrating but a drop in the ocean compared to what some people are suffering.

Thank you for your kind words about the moms on this forum .... we are also blessed to have met you and Rosa (virtually) and shared our views along the way.

I think we are all privileged in helping moms, dads and families who reach out to the forum. There are also 'cafe groups' (virtually at the moment) in some areas for PP moms to meet and talk around the table. So it has been really good to share and reassure new moms who might like to engage that they are not alone.

Stay safe and well. Love to you and your treasured family.

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter

A few months on and I hope you and your family are safe and well. We don’t seem to be out of the woods yet with the virus but try to be positive and patient. Thinking of you ..... love to you and your treasured family.

[PeterN]

Hi Lilybeth!

Another heatwave here, but the good news is that at the weekend a polar air mass will be here! 7º - 10ºC cooler and snow in the mountains in August!

The virus is as bad here as it was in April, but with much less mortality (thank God). We behaved very badly after being "unconfined" and are now paying for it.

Our grands are are bigger and rowdier than ever (a real handful for the grandparents!), but are a true blessing.

The memory of Sara continues to live on through them and their beautiful souls.

All our love to you and the whole APP family,

Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter

Lovely to hear from you ..... I’m glad it will be cooler for you at the weekend. I’ve been in torrential rain today but it’s still quite warm. I think there has also been snow in Australia recently so these are strange times.

I’m sorry to hear the virus is bad in Spain. It does seem we have a long way to go. The Government here are also worried about the winter ‘flu’ season having an impact.

I love the company of my grandchildren too ..... adding their sparkle .... bless them all. So good that we are now allowed hugs It must be such a comfort that your daughter’s spirit lives on through them.

Much love to you and your treasured family from your APP family.

Stay cool and safe.

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello PeterN

How are you coping in Spain? We are in Autumn now so it’s much cooler though we sometimes see the sun

Here in England (Scotland and Wales have different recordings) it’s being reported that the virus is worse than it was in March so it is a worry. Wales are not allowing anyone from England access to their shores except for work.

I hope you and Rosa are keeping well and your treasured family are around for comforting hugs. I’m sure Papa Noel will be wearing his mask later this year 🎅 too!

Stay safe and well. With love to you and your treasured family.

[PeterN in reply to Lilybeth]

Dear Lilybeth,

It is always such a joy to see your name pop up on the email! What a blessing you have been for the family (you and the all the APP volunteers😍).

Zaragoza has two seasons, hot and windy, and wait for it, cold and windy! What possessed the Romans to build a city here is beyond me. I understand they wanted to conquer the rest of the north of Hispania from their base in Taragona, but why here?

It is only not windy when the heat is unbearable or the fog is like a blanket in winter. We have "circular wind", you can walk around all four corners of a block, and the wind will always be in your face! The people from Huesca (our neighbors to the north) call us the "the hunchbacks" because we all walk stooped over from walking into the wind!🤣

But apart from my small attempt at humor, we are all fine here and so far (he touches his head) touch wood, virus free!😊

Sami and Phi are now 4 & 1/2 and 3 years old and are the terror of the school and their grandparents!🤦‍♂️ Just kidding, they are the sweetest and brightest children ever! Drool, drool.

No more for now! All our love the the APP family and stay safe and virus free!

Love and blessings,

Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter

Thank you too for brightening my day and all the volunteers I’m sure with your kind words. It’s a privilege to be in touch across the miles.

So interesting to hear about your part of the world and seasons. Love your humour ... which we all need to keep positive Still no singing allowed in Church!

I’m glad you are all fine and hopefully will remain virus free. We are restricted in visiting to no more than six per household, so my sons and theIr families can’t visit all together Grandchildren are a joy beyond measure aren’t they .... and just like yours, the sweetest and amazing with their special hugs and lovely company, although sleepovers are on hold for now.

Take care and stay safe. With love from your APP family.

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello Peter

I hope you and your family are well. Looking to brighten my day in the middle of torrential rain here so I thought I would ‘speak’ to you.

The virus is not going away any time soon and a new strain has been detected in England which has limited families mixing to just Christmas Day. Thankfully as three households are allowed to meet, I will be with my sons and their families for lunch. It is awful that so many lives have been lost. Some countries have stopped flights from England for the moment until more is known about the new strain.

I hope you and your family are are safe in Spain.

I’m not sure whether you have seen from the APP site that they have collaborated with the British ‘soap’ “Hollyoaks” to help create one of the soap’s biggest storylines for Christmas 2020 and into the New Year? I think it will be a good way to raise awareness.

Only 4 sleeps until Papa Noel 🎅 arrives to sprinkle his magic!! Wishing you, Rosa and your family a happy Christmas ...... good times with your grandchildren who add their own special touch to sprinkle joy in the spirit of your daughter.

Love and blessings.

[PeterN in reply to Lilybeth]

Hi Lilybeth! Your mails are always a bright spot no matter the weather!😍🎅

We don't have brilliant weather either at the moment, it is winter now!

😜

The holiday gatherings here a much more limited (6 people, all family), some provinces are up to 10, but it changes weekly! They tried a term to replace family, "aligados", but it got out of control fast! So they had to go back to family (now no one is really sure who can come over).

Spain is still allowing flights from the UK (at the moment, awaiting EU guidance, good luck there

🤪).

The virus has made us appreciate the preciousness of life even more. The suffering has been intense for many, our family has been spared, thanks be to God. The grands were scheduled to have Xmas in the village with their paternal great grand father, but even that is not guaranteed with all the changes to travel restrictions.

Rosa and I will have a quiet Christmas with her brother and his wife. The boys should be back for the New Year and the 3 Kings day!

The are more like their mom every day with her humor and sense of fun!

Lot of hugs and kisses for all from Spain

Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Thank you Peter and Rosa .... hugs and kisses returned from your APP family

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter and Rosa

Thinking of you .... I hope you and your family are safe in the extreme weather in Spain. Take very good care.

With love and hugs from your APP family. xx

[PeterN in reply to Lilybeth]

Hi Lilybeth,We are hiding from the heat in a village in the north, close to the Pyrenes. The delta varient of the virus is still claiming lives among pregnant women and the elderly. Stay safe! Love Peter and Rosa

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hi Peter and Rosa

Thank you so much .... I’m really pleased to hear you are managing to hide from the heat. The delta virus is such a challenge and as you say, still claiming lives of the vulnerable. It is definitely a worry as new cases rise in the UK while restrictions continue to be lifted. Take care ... be safe.

With love and prayers.

[Pikorua Volunteer]

Hello Peter and Rosa,

I am pleased you can be hiding away from the immense heat.

I can resonate with Lilybeth and just do not understand that suddenly everything is just left to its own devises.

I've been participating in the Covid 19 APP since March 2020 which is run by Kings College London and Stanford University...Those reliable statistics are not compatible with the given figures on the general news channels for the British public. Daily cases 43,728 and overall active cases 646,638.

Because of my anxiety levels (crowds and pandemic) and extreme additional costs of testing for flying abroad/and return (most expensive ones in comparison to other mainland EU countries) I have not been able to see my mum for 3 years now. We've been to Europe in 2019, our last trip and managed to see friends and my aunt in my home country, but not Spain (too far by car at the time for my son).

I often think of you. Wishing you well, stay safe and healthy. x

[PeterN in reply to Pikorua]

I hear you Pikorua!

My sister organized a family reunion (God bless her) at her place in the US last week. We were supposed to attend (we are double vaccinated and have had a negative PCR since), but our flights were from Ireland and they still were holding Spain as Red or Yellow light so...we cancelled.

Our arrival city in the US was Boston (closest to my sister) and their mayor was debating a 72 hour quarantine on all Spanish arrivals regardless of what paperwork you were carrying.

It has been three years since we have been together and she is now 84 and has had the "widowmaker" heartattack , but lives a stone throw from a good hospital and now has three stents in her arteries!

😅

Still won't pay attention to her doctor, stubborn as a mule (can you tell she is my sister yet?).

Any way, you have a great summer, because anywhere on this side of the grass is a good place to be!

Hugs!

Peter and Rosa

[Pikorua Volunteer in reply to PeterN]

Thank you dear Peter for your heartfelt words. Sending you and your wife much love and kindness. x

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Dear Peter and Rosa

What a year it’s been ..... but Papa Noel is still finding a safe way to visit all the children this night 😊

Thinking of you and hope you remain safe and well. The new variant is rising so I think everyone is looking forward to being with family at this time until more restrictions are announced.

I hope your family and grandchildren are well. Except for my youngest grandaughter, my other grandchildren tower above me. I feel a role reversal as they are more than capable of seeing me safely across the road rather than vice versa!

My youngest grandaughter had been growing her hair for over two years and recently donated her long locks to the Princess Trust which make real hair wigs for children affected by cancer. Bless them all .... I’m sure your daughter’s spirit shines on in your treasured grandchildren.

Feliz Navidad ..... stay safe and take care. Hugs across the miles 💕