scared of PP happening again..

[MaryMary007]

Hi I am new to this site and so far I have found it very helpful. I developed Postnatal Psychosis on my first pregnancy. The symptoms started to develop when she was about 2 weeks old. I was on top of the world when my daughter was born, had a c section, and all went fine. First week was busy with lots of visitors calling etc it was busy busy. I was breastfeeding too without any difficulties and I was delighted with that. After the first week my husband had to go back to work as he had just started a new job. I was confident that I could manage great on my own. Unfortunately I was wrong! I had no family close by for support. Both parents deceased and my sister lived abroad. Looking back I think I first started experiencing manic episodes, I was feeding 2 hourly but couldn't manage ever to get back to sleep, I would call my sister and would talk like a mad woman down the phone, at ninety miles an hour. She actually said to me would I not go and see a doctor sure I said I was fine. She knew I wasn't but she lived on the other side of the world and wasn't due to come over for another week. Following the manic episodes came the mind racing non stop with crazy thoughts. I just wanted my brain to switch off but it wouldn't. It kept telling me that I was a bad mother and didn't deserve to have my daughter. I remember on Week 2 I walked to the village with my husband and daughter to get a coffee and I felt like everyone on the street was coming at me and that I was in a bubble and they were all looking at me thinking there was something wrong with me, I said nothing to my husband I just asked him to go and get me the coffee while I continually paced the street with my daughter up and down the road about 20 times! I couldn't wait to get back to the 'safety' of my own house. The next few days I just got worse, I was suspicious of everyone, at one point I thought that my daughter had died in my arms and I had killed her. I imagined my husbands family were trying to take my daughter off me as I was an unfit mother. Then I imagined my husband was leaving me. I used to check all the doors and windows non stop and imagined his family were sneaking around the house trying to get in. I would pull down all the blinds in the house from the time I got up. Thankfully my sister contacted my husband to say I needed to go to the doctor. She was due home the next day. My husband called my GP who is excellent, I tried to grab the phone off him to tell my GP that he was trying to take my daughter off me. She got me a place in a Private psychiatric hospital. (I was so glad i have private health cover when I saw the bill for my stay in hospital!!) He called his sister to come over to mind my daughter. I wouldn't get into the car to go to the hospital, my cousin eventually had to come over to go with me. I tried to jump out of the car a few times nearly causing my husband to crash. The first few days of being in hospital are a bit of blur as I was heavily sedated. I longed for my daughter and thought I was being punished. I was so paranoid and thought I was in 'one flew over the cuckoo's nest' and this was a place I would stay forever. My husband later told me that he tried to bring out daughter in to see me on the second day but I went hysterical when he tried to take her home, I don't remember any of this. They put me on 20mg of Olanzapeine and it started to take effect in that my delusions started to subside but I was still extremely paranoid of everyone from my family to the nurses. I felt so low I wanted to jump out the window. I stayed in hospital for 5 weeks but I fell into a deep depression on my release from hospital. 3 weeks later I was re admitted as I had the racing thoughts again, sleeplessness and felt suicidal. Again I stayed for 5 weeks. When I got home the second time I felt like such a failure. I was completed zonked and detached from the high dose of Olanzapeine and I felt no one understood. Eventually after about 12 months I felt like I was back to myself (3 stone heavier!) I was lucky that my sister and husbands family were able to mind my daughter during my hospital stays and my friends were wonderful I couldn't have gotten through it without them. My husband had a very bad accident nearly 2 years ago and we didn't know If he would live or die. 7 days after his accident and after very little sleep I was back it the psychiatric hospital with my second episode of psychosis I wasn't aware that stress could bring this on again and neither were my family! This time at my worst I thought that I had killed my daughter and I was in jail waiting to be sentenced. It was a complete nightmare..............The reason I am writing this post is because it is nearly 2 years since I have been sick and I have felt really well for a number of months now. I want to have a second baby am I mad I think! as my sister and some friends think I am too! I obviously discussed this in length with my psychiatrist who is brilliant and he said we can manage it if we put the right plans in place and stay on the medication. I am currently on a maintenance dose of 2.5mg of Olanzapeine and also 200mg of Sertraline which is an anti depressant. He said I would be monitored closely though out the pregnancy and he would have to give me a high dose of olanzapeine following the birth, as I write this post I am actually wondering if I am mad considering it! even though I am 2 months off birth control. I wish there was some guarantee that I wouldn't get it again....but I know there isn't but the last 2 times I got Post natal Psychosis and Pyschosis I wasn't on any anti psychotic. I have no history of mental illness. When I look at my daughter who is now 4 it was all worth it and I wouldn't change it for the world but It was such a horrible and scary time. Sorry for such a long post but I really would love to hear from others who have had PP and went on to have a second pregnancy. Thanks so much

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello MaryMary007

I'm glad you have found the forum helpful. Thank you for sharing what must have been a frightening experience for you and family. I'm sorry you only had your husband and sister to confide in during this time, although your sister lives abroad. Do you live in the UK?

I had my first PP many years ago and can relate to the thought of being a 'bad mother'. I also had delusions which were all very real and frightening at the time. I was sectioned to general psychiatric care without my baby and was very ill for months before I eventually fully recovered. I think it took me well over two years to regain my place and confidence.

Like you, I considered a second baby and was assured by my GP that he would support me in my decision. It took six years for my husband and I to decide to take the risk. Although I remembered a lot about my first psychosis, I wasn't aware how ill I had been because it was a 'shame' that wasn't discussed.

Unfortunately, my GP was on holiday when PP hit for a second time and I was again sectioned and treated under general psychiatric care. This time I was mainly treated at home except in times of crisis when I was hospitalised to various mental health units. I also developed an enduring depression which from my notes lasted for over a year. As before, following good medical care, I eventually made a full recovery and have had many happy family memories since.

I would add that there are mums on the forum who have had second pregnancies without PP returning, so please don't be despondent.

Take good care of yourself.

[MaryMary007 in reply to Lilybeth]

Hi Lilybeth, thanks so much for the response. All information is really helpful. I am living in Ireland and we don't have any MBU in the country, therefore I had to be separated from my daughter when she was only 3 weeks, while I stayed in hospital for 5 weeks. this was the same on my other 2 admissions. My fear is if the PP happens again, I will have to be separated from her and she is 4 now so it would really affect her. xx

[Hannah_at_APP Administrator]

Hi MaryMary007 and welcome to the forum,

Thanks for sharing your experience of PP, although each woman is different I am still finding myself nodding along at parts of your story. I had PP after the birth of my eldest child in 2009, and like you it struck "out of the blue". I was admitted to a general psychiatric ward when my son was about 2 weeks old, then was lucky enough to get a place in a Mother & Baby Unit, spending 3 months in total in hospital. It's good to hear that you had good treatment and I'm sorry to hear about your second period of illness. It does show what strong women we are to come through tough times though I think.

Like you, I was scared when thinking of a 2nd child and very apprehensive, knowing that I would be at high risk. We were advised when I was discharged to myself to recover mentally and really consider if it was what we wanted, as it's a big decision after such a major illness. We decided to have a 2nd child in 2013, later than I think we would have otherwise, but I was off medication and discharged from mental health, so it felt like the right time. But it was then difficult to get some input, so it's great to hear that you have a supportive psychiatrist who has offered you some reassurance. Do you have access to a perinatal service locally to where you live? APP offer a consultation with Prof Ian Jones as a 2nd Opinion Service, and this can be something that your psychiatrist or even GP can refer you to (and there is no cost to your health authority(. Here is the link: app-network.org/what-is-pp/...

I found the consultation absolutely invaluable, and it helped us put plans in place, including to take medication after delivery (Olanzapine, which is what I had taken when ill and we knew worked), minimise stress, keep visitors to a minimum, bottle feed (as I had struggled to breastfeed) and things around the birth such as a longer hospital stay for some monitoring. I also put together some things for my eldest child, such as going to family and friends, so that he felt special too, and we got some quiet time with the baby. I had people on stand-by to look after my edest too if I had become ill and thought about where I would be treated. All of these things were written in a care plan that we put together ourselves and when I eventually got into the CMHT locally, they wrote up on their systems and shared with the hospital. I found a lot of professionals hadn't heard of pp, so were grateful for the specialist information and guidance. As there is no perinatal service where I am, it was hard at times (and more than a little scary!), but I found the info on this site and from APP really useful. And the good news is that everything went well and I didn't get ill again.

There were times when I thought, as you have said, am I mad for doing this?! But it was absolutely the right decision for us and with plans in place, I felt like I was doing something to prevent the chances of becoming ill, even if there was nothing that could absolutely guarantee it. Even if pp had struck again, at least people would know what to do and most importantly, we knew I could get better. Our mantras were "it can't be as bad as before" and "we will do all we can and then we know we've done our best". It might sound like an exercise in risk management, and we felt scared at times, but we were lucky and I am grateful for that. I hope some of this is helpful to you, please feel free to ask any more questions and good luck with whatever you choose.

Take care, xx

[MaryMary007]

Hi Hannah thanks for your mail. I really do find this site invaluable since I joined up! It's so good to hear stories from other mums who have come through PP as so many people don't understand what a horrible illness it is and how long it takes to recover too. Unfortunately in Ireland we don't have any MBU, I am not sure why this is as in the later weeks of my illness I think it would have really helped me to have my daughter with me. There is no way I would even consider getting pregnant again if I didn't have a really supportive GP and psychiatrist, both are really good. I am actually still attending my psychiatrist as an out patient following my last psychosis experience in Sep 2014, hence I am still on low dose Olanzapeine and anti depressants too. Your advice about trying to put some plans in place are really helpful. I agree next time round I would benefit from a longer stay in the maternity hospital and very few visitors and of course bottle feed and good help from my husband for night feeds as I think sleep is crucial as I had complete insomnia the first time round. I would be seeing a psychiatrist all the way through my pregnancy so that gives me re assurance. I would just love a second chance to experience being a new mother, I feel I was robbed of that first time round and If I'm honest I didn't enjoy the first year with my daughter, how could I, I was so zonked from the medication and all I wanted to do was sleep. Anyway I am going to give it a try and hopefully all will work out for me. I will let you know how I get on. Bye for now xx

[Lilybeth Volunteer]

Hello MaryMary007

Thanks for your reply. It's awful that MBUs are few and far between isn't it? There's an ongoing campaign for one in Wales .................

I'm glad you have found the site helpful. Have you seen the post from a few years ago now by Rose89 under "Second Pregnancy???" .... which has very good replies with links. If you search for it you should be able to find it. There are also other posts about second pregnancies. I just typed 'second pregnancy' into search and a few came up!

I hope you can weigh everything up and decide. I'm glad Hannah's post was more reassuring than mine. It's all about having a good care plan in place with a support network around you I think.

Take good care of yourself. We are here if you would like to chat ........

[DEb12W]

I have two great kids, after two horrible experiences of PP. Your account is very real to me. Be prepared for it to happen again, so that if it doesn't it is a pleasant surprise!

I would still consider having a third child....

Make sure your husband has his support crew in place too...

[MaryMary007 in reply to DEb12W]

Hi deb12w thanks for your mail so did u have pp on your second child? Were you on medication, I'm not sure if I could go through it all for a third time as I had pp in my first child and then a further episode of psychosis 2 years ago which was triggered by severe stress I was under

I really want to try for another baby though x

[Hidden]

Dear Mary Mary 007,

so much sorrow and stresses in your account, yet I am grateful that you are able to share your life experiences for all the other females on this forum. Thus, thank you.

And yes, I can identify with what you went through, I believe that everybody's journey is a different one and needs and and wishes do vary personally and within the family unit. Energy, strengths and determination is the way forward, with obviously a support network in place including your partner/husband, if you want another baby.

Elaine Hanzak has published a new book last year September I believe, with exactly your topic, ...having another baby, despite Post Partum Psychosis. This is not the title, I would have to look up the details for you. Obviously there is plenty of advise by mums who have had more than one child.

Personally I would not like to experience PPP again and the struggles afterwards. It is such a long path of recovery and I admire everybody who will take the risk. Luckily research and prevention is furthermore developing.

Good luck, take good care of yourself x Sabine

[MaryMary007 in reply to Hidden]

Hi Jasa, thanks so much for your reply. It really is a hard decision to make but I hope I am making the right decision by trying again. Like all the ladies have suggested on this site, putting the right plans in place is crucial. At least by doing this I can give myself the best chance If I am unlucky enough for PP to return a second time! xx

[Jenny_at_APP Partner]

Hi MaryMary007,

It sounds like you went through a terrible time, I'm so glad you came through it all and had/have good support from both family and health professionals.

The decision to risk another baby is such a difficult one isn't it, but I'm sure you'll come to a decision that is right for you.

Just to add my experience, I had PP in 2012 after the birth of my first son. I have gone on to have a second son who has just turned 6 months old, without recurrence.

There's no way to guarantee avoiding PP a second time unfortunately but in our case we planned as best we could for worst case scenario, had excellent support in place from family, friends and health professionals and then just had to trust that if PP hit again, it would be picked up straight away and we knew what treatment had worked first time around so hopefully any illness would be caught early and recovery would be quicker.

I opted to take a low dose of the medication I'd been on the first time, which could quickly be upped should symptoms start. I started taking this 36 hours after delivery in the end and will start reducing off it next week. I chose to formula feed, both to avoid the anxiety I experienced around breastfeeding with my first, and so my husband could do the night feeds.

I've put more detail on other threads that you can read on here, hopefully there is a lot of helpful and reassuring information and advice from lots of mums for you to read.

It's not an easy decision and not one anyone can make for you; I found the decision making one of the hardest parts and was stuck in that place for a while. Once we'd decided to go for it, we could move forward. I found the information and advice here on the forum, in the APP guides and from Prof Ian Jones via the second opinion service invaluable. I had an idea what I should be getting in terms of support and found lots of good ideas for plans to put in place.

Wishing you lots of luck and best wishes, J x

[MaryMary007]

Hi JB thanks a mi for the reply. All stories shared are a great help. I am like you in that the decision making on whether to go again was the hardest but I think I am making the best decision and hopefully I will fall pregnant again and not experience PP for a second time. At least this time I will know the warning signs and can act quickly. I too am still on a low dose of Olanzapeine and this will continue, My pshychiatrist said this will be upped straight after delivery, even though I don't want it to be upped but I scared of the consequences if it wasn't! Like you this time I would chose to bottle feed so my husband could do the night feeds as lack of sleep is definitely a trigger for me. I am delighted that you went on to have a second baby, enjoy this special time xx