Warfarin - Arterial Calcification

[gazaeee]

I keep hearing that there is a risk of arterial calcification in the arteries when on Warfarin>

Something about the relationship between Vitamin D, Vitamin K and the way Calcium should travel to the bones rather than remain in the blood stream.

Now I have been advised to take vitamin D as I seem to always be very low, however I have also been told to be cautious about the amount of vitamin K intake which I have been told is really important for the correct absorption of Calcium.

Could someone kindly explain the relationship between Warfarin, Calcium, Vitamin K and Vitamin D in the context of calcification of the arteries and whether it is possible to mitigate the risk?

Many thanks

[Inchcock]

It's very confusing is it not.

Al;though I fear I know nothing about the technicalities.

I have been warned about taing brassica veg, I've had to stop having sprouts, kale, savoy and other cabbages, and kale.

They tell me they are very high in Vitamin K.

I hope someone with knowledge can help you.

Keep safe.

[moo196 in reply to Inchcock]

no... the benefits of such veg can be obtained if you dose the diet don't diet the dose (as my anticoagulant nurse told me). I have at least 3 "banned" foods daily and definitely worth talking to Yr anticoagulant nurse about this.

[gazaeee in reply to moo196]

Unfortunately if I had listened to my nurse, I'd probably be dead by now!

Just some of the things my nurse has said:

"You can't clot while on warfarin

You won't feel any different when your INR is high or low

Feeling cold isn't anything to do with Warfarin

Eat whatever you want and we will take care of the rest"

Perhaps those that eat a regular diet may balance and remain stable over time, but many of us eat whatever we can find in the market, what we can afford or what we are given. If it were not for me having purchased a coaguchek machine and intervening by reducing or increasing my K intake, I would have shot extremely far out of range before my next INR check! I usually use the coagucheck machine every couple of weeks or when I don't feel quite right.

[moo196 in reply to gazaeee]

consistency is key here.

[gazaeee in reply to moo196]

Agree. So I totally avoid dark leafy greens because of their ability to make my INR drop very fast.

[Inchcock in reply to moo196]

Sorry I've not replied earlier Moo196.

I'll try to remember to talk with her, next week, when she calls. Thank you.

My INR level is suddenly all over the place, and a Vit B shortage found in my last blood test. Having Cognitive Impairment, anything new is not easy to grasp or retain. I can remember clearly when as a nipperoony I had my thumb crushed, and sewn back on again... as if it had just happened... but, what, I had for breakfast, when then deliveries are arriving, and even at times what day is it. can be elusive. I've caught the wrong bus at times, and forgot where I was going anyway. I'd be lost without the carers and my computer. Oh, it was Vitamin K, not B, sorry. I think.

The community nurses have not been to look at the catheter to let me try to pass, but I've not done that for the two years I've had the catheter fitted. Sorry for waffling on.

I hope things can improve for you.

[1498Sandpoet1498 in reply to Inchcock]

As I talked about in another post, my doctor says manage the Warfarin dosing not your food types.

[Jumper99]

I can’t help with your question as I didn’t know about the arterial calcification possibility although I’ve been on warfarin for over 20 years. Have you tried to search on Google etc? I do try to take vitamin d supplements, but I have a very very rare reaction to them so have to go slowly. Did you know that low vitamin D often happens in autoimmune diseases?

[Rassociates]

I too have been on Warfarin now for nearly 20 years. I was warned at the outset to limit taking vit D to the winter months but also anything with vit K including those mentioned will reduce the effectiveness of Warfarin. Unfortunately we all react differently so it is hard to give a hard and fast rule. You obviously know to avoid aspirin and alcohol intake should be limited as well as both will additionally thin the blood. If that is any help you are very welcome.

That's all I can say to help.

[1498Sandpoet1498 in reply to Rassociates]

My cardiologist said most people who went through valve replacement are still advised to take aspirin, too. She modified her advice to match the Stanford doctors advice to avoid aspirin since I have a clip in a blood vessel on the brain. Now, this is a renowned cardiologist who didn’t read my patient history thoroughly before recommending treatment. When in doubt, get a 2nd opinion.

[Warfarin2014]

Hospitalized in September 2014 with PE. I selected WARFARIN, and was on it for 27 months until December 2016. Nearly passed out walking to my car, and friends kept commenting about my paleness. Hospitalized with extreme anemia with RBC 5.8 and it should be 13 or 13.1 - can’t remember. I’m 79 now. I was BLEEDING INTERNALLY, and they never determined where the “LEAK” was. My cardiologist ordered a CALCIUM CARDIOLOGY SCORE EXAM. A good score is less than 100. My score was a WHOPPING 3,756! My NURSE PRACTITIONER CARDIOLOGY ICU daughter WEPT on the phone when I informed her of my score.

DID THE WARFARIN CONTRIBUTE TO ALL THE CALCIUM IN MY HEART? Was it my diet all those years?

Not sure this is any help to your quest for the truth or not. But, I felt the need to share.

The human body is very, very complex, and it amazes me to hear of anyone who doubts God’s existence. It didn’t just happen.

[happy12345]

I have heard you should take vitamin D with vitamin K to prevent calcification. I'm on warfarin I have been taking vitamin D. I was not taking vitamin K as not good on warfarin. Confused now.

[gazaeee in reply to happy12345]

Exactly. Thought id like to know more about this all because I really need to take vit D supplementations.

[Inchcock in reply to happy12345]

Together we are fused in confusion. Haha! Thanks

[happy12345]

If you find answer pass it on lol. Nobody seems to know anything. After 13 years on warfarin I take my chances now. 😂

[Shar28]

When my husband was put in warfarin some years ago we were told patients should adjust the dose of Warfarin to ensure a well-balanced diet that includes leafy greens as vit K helps stabilise INR (as well as reduce it in sufficient quantities). He was told not to exclude or reduce certain food groups like leafy green veg as they have many nutrients that our bodies need.

He takes Omega3, Ubiquinol (a more absorbent form of Q10), vit D3 and eats plenty of cabbage, sprouts, broccoli etc. His Drs are happy for him to do so. He’s considering taking vit D3 with vit K so the calcium absorbs into his bones and like you would welcome some input.

I believe that provided you take your supplements regularly and have the same dose/bioavailability (ie not different varieties that work slightly differently to one another) by testing regularly you can adjust your warfarin dose to maintain your INR.

[1498Sandpoet1498 in reply to Shar28]

Your husband got the same advice as me. I’ve been on Warfarin for 15 years.

[Becky1222]

I have been on Warfarin for over 25 years. I have been looking also at the effect it has on blocking vitamin K. Vitamin K is used in the body to take calcium out of the blood stream and into our bones. I now have Osteoporosis which I am sure is due to taking Warfarin. I have never changed my diet because of warfarin and it has always been quite high in Calcium. I believe Warfarin's block on Vitamin K has caused this. I don't take calcium supplements as having too much calcium in the blood is not good if it is not getting taken out. I too would like to take vitamin K as I believe it would help but have been told not to because of reaction wth Warfarin. I would like to go on other anticoagulants that don't block vitamin K but unfortunately none have yet to be approved with patients with an artificial Aortic Heart Valve. Have thought about taking Vit K supplements but as I don't have my own INR testing machine difficult to keep an eye on levels.

Nice approved years ago we all should have our own machine to self test but that never came to anything. Nice recommendations only seemed to be used when it suits. Now if you are diabetic that's a different story everything given to you including free prescriptions, unfortunately not the case if born with a heart defect.😒