Thank you for all the helpful replies you gave me in my post a couple of days ago.
I have given this a lot of thought. I've started from the presumption that I am determined to go by car to Spain with my sons. I’m an old man and it’s on my bucket list.
OK so I then find out l'm uninsurable, not least because I'm not sure I have the capacity to give full disclosure over the phone, and I don't trust the websites which could well give me a policy, only for a claim handler subsequently to deny the claim on the grounds of non full disclosure.
Is this really a problem? I haven't been in hospital for the last 14 years. Nor have I been acutely unwell or broken any bones.
I think the likelihood of me needing help with medical costs in a 1 month period are remote.
So I’m just going to pack a month‘s supply of my meds in the old suitcase and head off into the sun with my boys.
So I’m wanting members to let me know if they have direct experience of being hit by big medical costs after going uninsured. Yes I know some will say that while it may not happen, you’re no spring chicken. No, more like as my boys would say an “old”’, the sort of fellow who goes to our M&S café with all the other olds.
So they will follow up that with it’s Sod’s Law that you will find yourself in hospital and then will really will be up the proverbial creek without a paddle.
To which I will respond that my boys will simply sign me out even if I’m still in a coma, and stick me in the back of the 4x4. If I’m still comatose 48 hours later, they will have my full unspoken permission, demand even, to roll me off a remote clifftop into the North Atlantic. They will say they had seen signs of improvement, and whilst I was in this old Spanish wooden push chair supplied by the hospital and which had a brake, unfortunately the brake had failed while we we enjoyed canapés and bolly admiring the amazing French coastline and rolled over the cliff top before they could get to me. The French gendarmes will simply say “Spanish, roll their eyes, say mad English and shrug their shoulders”.
They will be happy to have solved the case so quickly, my boys will be happy to have my long known to them wishes not to live into old age disabled and I’ll be happy as I feed the sharks that I won’t have to.
It’s the classic old conundrum that you don’t need insurance until you do. A very low risk (when did you last make any sort of claim?) against devastating costs if we haven’t insured ourselves. That’s why the Insurance companies get rich while their clients get poor, trading on our feeble fears.
Go on, cancel your domestic insurance today and you will join those of us who have become wealthy and wise, saying to them enough already, Just don’t come looking for me when your house burns down.
I went to France this year with insurance for everything except afib.. I went to Mallorca last year. I did have my EHIC card which gets you treatment in Europe in the same way as other European citizens. So depending on the country you will likely get better treatment than here. In Spain it’s all free. In France you have to pay something.
The only thing is getting back home as you say, which you will have to finance yourself.
At least take a European Health Insurance card - apply online, you get the card in a few weeks and at least it will pay for the very expensive emergency treatment your sons may have to pay for when they have checked you out.
Thank you for your reply CDreamer and the link to the guv. uk site to apply for an EHIC card, I will apply today to get cards for all of us.
Your point about repatriation costs is very germane, but although I spoke part in jest about being pushed off a cliff, I have started to believe recently that we should take agency about our end of life plans. Our cruel and unusual laws around euthanasia force us to take the law into our own hands our owe end of life decisions.
If I decide I want to jump off a cliff while I’m still capable, then I damn well will jump off a cliff.
We’ve spoken as a family about this, and everyone accepts that I don’t want to end up dependent in a nursing home.
If it comes to it, if the boys are uncomfortable about my plan, perhaps because they feel uncomfortable about being criminalised, then I will have a back up plan for a local hitman to take me out discretely.
You’re very knowledgeable CDreamer, you don’t happen to know any active hitmen from your sailing days off Bordeaux …..
It’s a discussion I have regularly with two friends and we live close to Beachy Head. I’ll let you know if I reconnect with the French gun smuggler I met (really!).
I get fed up with all the talk about prolonging life - I’m more interested in Quality, not sure I have any desire to live until 120.
My point about signing out is that I’m sure you wouldn’t want to leave a huge debt to your family.
The ehic card is called something else now but you can still get it.As to the bigger question better ask your boys? About 5k Brits die abroad on holiday each year, which is a tiny fraction of the 55 million trips we make, but quite a significant fraction to those 5k. I know of two people in this statistic. If you're lucky enough to only be in a coma then you'll need to be repatriated by medical staff which is expensive.
In the UK you can in all cases discharge yourself when you like, but this is not the same in all countries where they want to make sure you're cured before chucking you out.
I’m disturbed to hear that not all countries allow self discharge. Do you happen to know whether France and Spain are on the list or where there is somewhere I can drill down on this further.
I agree, why leave a job half done . I believe some jurisdictions will hold you if you have a communicable disease, or are still in the intensive care stage (which of course is their determination, not the patient's).
Some people end up in a mess because they did not take out travel insurance, it is usually extended family who pay to sort it out. I would always pay the insurance if it is available and affordable. I pay £250 surcharge to cover for afib. My insurance will cover me for 30 day excursions. I plan to go to Thailand later this year, I have bought a one way ticket. A standard visa lasts 60 days so I will be uninsured if I stay for a longer period. I expect that a further surcharge would be very expensive. If I manage to maintain in NSR I might extend my stay to 90 days. Iam prepared to pay for private medical treatment if my health were to deteriorate. It is all a calculated risk.
Fair comment. I share your sentiment in that Insurance Companies do not always pay up. We all take risks everyday we live. There is no life which is free from risk. Regards.
I have permanent though asymptomatic AF, taking only an anticoagulant, plus asthma which is well managed, lymphoedema in my lower limbs for which I wear compression socks daily and is normally well managed. I also have BPH. The last time I was abroad was in 2018, but only from noon on a Tuesday until 5pm on the Thursday of the same week. I went to northern France to pay homage to my uncle who was killed in the first world war on the centenary of his death, on the Wednesday of that week.
Due to the lack of public transport, I walked the 5 miles back from Vaulx Hill cemetery to Bapaume. I took insurance out for the 53 hours I was in France.
My only comment on your situation, sod's law being what it is, is what happens if both you and your sons are incapacitated at the same time?
I hadn’t considered your very important point. They will definitely have insurance and we will have to make a back up plan for my other boys to come down in a hired bus with their girl friends to pick all of us up.
You're a young man.😀despite heart failure, diabetes and ongoing monitoring for prostate cancer treatment I can still get travel cover for my holidays at a reasonable rate. I just don't have the guts to go without insurance. I have never made a claim but (as you have intimated) when push comes to shove will the insurers play ball?
.Now I understand Bridges4. Thank you for your reply. Do you use a GHIC which I understand allows you to receive at least in some of the countries in the EU the same care available to that country's nationals, like our NHS. Variations will apply and repatriation will be at your expense.Do have a look at 4chickens reply to me in this thread towards the end. It's very reassuring and informative about health care costs.
The EHIC card is only valid until it expires then you have to apply for a GHIC due to us leaving the EU. It gives you access to certain care but you may have to still pay for some treatment and only at public health facilities. Private would be at your own expense.
Can I ask, what is the issue with disclosure you mentioned?
With your joking aside, I'm not sure if you are actually asking for advice or just explaining why you're not going to bother with insurance but I do know someone who has had to be hospitalised in Spain last year and then had to be accompanied back to the UK with a nurse and then transported to hospital here.
He caught Covid (having COPD already) and was in hospital in Spain for nearly 3 weeks. Obviously, his insurance covered all medical treatment and also, hotel accommodation for his friend who was on holiday with him so he had someone with him.
Accompanied by a nurse back to UK and then private ambulance to hospital back home.
The bill, had he not been insured was a touch under £20,000.
Clearly, it's an expensive problem if you decide not to have insurance plus, a possible headache and expense for those travelling with you to take into consideration as well, but at the end of the day, it's your choice. 😊
My mention of full disclosure is that I’m 76 with early cognitive problems, My medical history is complex and goes back to my twenties. I couldn’t possibly detail everything accurately in a way which would prevent the claims handler rejecting the claim because I had not made full disclosure. That of course is their job, and how the insurance companies grow their profits.
I’m sorry that you may feel that I was not actually asking for advice. My intention was to explain my situation and ask for experiential information to allow me to make a balanced decision. There may well be other things I had not considered.
For example, Thomas45 above made an excellent point about all three of us being incapacitated, perhaps due to us being in a car crash, though on reflection my motor policy would cover all expenses in that eventuality.
Ahhhh, I thought you meant there was something you didn't want to disclose, like webbed feet or something 🤣.No need to apologise, I just wasn't sure if you had already made your mind up anyway.
You're very right, insurance companies will try and weedle their way out of paying, if they can.
Myself and hubby were due to take my Mum on holiday, several years ago (in my fit and healthy days) when she passed away unexpectedly.
Hubby had tagged onto our booking so had a different insurer to Mum and I. His insurers were excellent and paid up straightaway whereas mine and Mum's, wanted every document known to man, except the Magna Carta!
Whatever you decide to do, have a great time memory making with your boys........ and make sure you take the doctor one with you. 😁
Loved your reply Ducky2003, made me laugh. No of course I don’t have webbed feet, which would be absurd, I have to say I am a little offended.
I do however have a large spiralling pointed horn projecting from my forehead which people occasionally comment on at cocktail and dinner parties.
Having grown up with it, I consider it perfectly normal , indeed one of my better features. I have to say I have never come to terms with having 4 legs and a tail, which were probably the reasons I got my place at Oxford to study mythology.
I have found that the cheapest option below age 80 is to pay for a packaged bank current account that includes medical cover. When you declare serious medical conditions (as you must), they will exclude them from cover unless you pay an extra premium. But you can simply opt to exclude the named conditions (eg AF). However, don’t forget that you would then be covered for any accidents if you are injured in a car crash or break your pelvis falling over! Not to mention personal effects and luggage.
I understand what you are saying, though I did wonder whether you meant to say that if you excluded cover for say AF, then if any subsequent claim was made which could reasonably be related to AF then you would NOT be covered.
I think my basic point is that I feel the need for me to be hospitalised over such a short (1 month) period is so remote that it isn’t worth preventing me going abroad by car. I won’t be driving. Any motor claims will be handled by my top car and home insurer.
I haven’t been in hospital for 14 years and never in casualty. It is a risk/benefit calculation but if we don’t want to take any risks we would just stay in bed. all our lives.
I may not have many years left and I want to make the most of them, not least to say all the things to my adult sons that somehow we all forget or they are too busy getting on with their own lives and they will wish they had taken the time to talk to me before it is too late.
Have no regrets
Charlotte Brontë whose home I lived very close to for 25 years wrote about regret
I have just come back from a trip to France with my family, similar to your plans. I wasn't driving at all as not insured on any of their vehicles. Also didn't need cancellation insurance for my wife and I as they were going anyway and had their own travel insurance. I very nearly didn't bother but the thought that swayed me was the cost of repatriation, especially if the worst happened and I was coming back in a box!
The hassle and cost of that scenarios was not something I was prepared to land onto my family. My daughter-in-law's grandfather passed away on a commemoration visit to Arnhem, where he had landed by parachute and fought in 1944. The amount of bureaucracy, hassle and cost was unbelievable!
I have a significant number of issues, including AF and a problem that is still undiagnosed. I took the lowest possible level of cover with All Clear Travel Insurance which excluded the undiagnosed problem but covered all my other medical history. Happily I didn't have to claim, and would recommend you give them a ring and see what cover you can get.
Even more outrageous, though I suspect much of the surcharge would be to cover legal costs on their part if it turned out they were the ones responsible.
So sorry to disagree, Jim, but you are wrong in so many ways. I had to put in a claim last year when I cancelled a trip at the last minute due to an unexpected AF attack. OK, so the insurance cost £500 but I got back the rest of the money I’d paid for the holiday without any problems. Also, disposing of your body will not be the walk in the park you’re flippantly suggesting as your family will find itself involved in lengthy legal issues if it follows your advice and drops you off a cliff. And going on holiday without travel insurance is, as a mid seventies guy with a few trivial but potentially inconvenient medical conditions including AF, something I would not leave home without. The financial implications of repatriating you if - god forbid - some medical emergency hits you while abroad are just too expensive to contemplate. Yes. I know it’s annoying that insurers make money but is it honestly worth the risk of going without proper cover? I think not.
A few thoughts, I already consider myself uninsurable for reasons I explained earlier in this thread.
Despite this, again for reasons I have already explained, I consider it impossible to imagine why after 14 years incident free, I should suddenly have a problem requiring being hospitalised just by driving through the Channel Tunnel.
In fact the only important situation in this context, would be if we had an accident. This would be covered by my car policy.
Only 3’of the responders on this thread apart from yourself, have had direct personal experience of making a claim and in your case, you only claimed for something that happened without you leaving the UK.
The thread to date has been a good sounding board for me., for which I am grateful. As I indicated at the start, I haven’t yet heard anything which would make me change my mind.
But I definitely need
1 to get WHIC cards
2 check whether there is any problem being cremated on the continent
3 my sons bringing my ashes back in
4 discuss with the boys the implications of all of us being incapacitated in an rta, but the older boys are experienced drivers who have driven thousands of miles in the states.
Although i did take out very costly travel insurance due to me having a heart attack last year and a cancerous kidney removed. I went to Spain for 8wks i unfortunately ended up in hospital it was a normal hospital not private I was diagnosed with AF my treatment was excellent I just showed my European health card along with my passport and didn’t have to pay anything. Go enjoy yourself life is to short to worry .
You’re the first person to respond with direct experiental information which is what I was really hoping to get. With the bonus that you are talking about Spain which is where I want to go, and it’s all positive. Can I ask how you got home?
T hanks for your reply, Jim. You raise some interesting points but I still wouldn’t contemplate extended travel in the U.K. or any sort of break abroad without health insurance. Unfortunately, when things go wrong medically they tend to be complicated so it’s just not worth the risk of a holiday turning into a nightmare. In my case, no insurance would have meant a loss of over £3000 in travel costs.
You made me laugh with your story 🤣🤣🤣 But.....I would never contemplate travel abroad without insurance. Someone I knew did just that and had to have an emergency operation whilst abroad. The total cost? £48,000 including 2 weeks in hospital. Doesn't bear thinking about
Wow! Did they have a valid GHIC, and which country were they in? For example in Spain, the operation would have been free in a public hospital with the GHIC, I am given to understand.
I’m not advocating it as I’m a worry wart, but my mother goes to spain from oct to April every year, she’s 86 with no insurance, up to 6 years ago she was using the ferry and driving, I’ve insisted she fly’s now.
She only has her GHIC and clams her treatment is fantastic in spain including when she broke her arm, physio 3x weekly once the plaster was off. She now has all her dental treatments there too biggest bill was €60. She has all her winter vaccinations there too.
As for popping her clogs if in spain she will be cremated before we could even get there which is standard procedure and not costly. She says scatter half of her there and sneak the rest back to scatter here.
She buys her statins over the counter as can only get 3 month supply to take with her.€9 a month. When she ran out of her pills post breast cancer I showed the pharmacist what she took he got them within 3 days but they did cost €100 for 3 months worth.
My step father was travelling with her until his demise at 91, 10 years ago.
Only advice if your going over a cliff is make sure it’s a steep one and straight into the sea don’t want to end up on the rocks broken but still around, and do it alone.
Oh 4chickens what a wonderful directly experiental and Spain relevant reply. Your mother sounds tough and perhaps old school or maybe prefers the winter climate there. I'm surprised you can insist that she does anything she doesn't want to. My mother who died at 92 never took the slightest bit of notice of anything I said.
May I ask where she stays in Spain?
Also do you have any knowledge of her possible interactions with medical services whilst driving through France?
Your last paragraph was very sensible but also contained another important caveat, particularly if you are gently hinting that I should not implicate loved ones.
You sound a very wise woman (and after reading someof your posts) sensible and valued contributor to your community.
Thank you for the compliment, I do have trouble getting her to agree, I have to withdraw my labour to get my own way. She lives in Aguilas in spain.
I don’t think she has required medical treatment whilst in France but has a friend who spends 6 months there and 6months in spain, she speaks highly of the French health system for her complex needs
That's puzzling. After digging deeper, it seems that whilst Cyprus (? both parts) is not in the Schengen Area, we can use our new GHIC cards there, (again ? both parts). I wonder if your friend found themselves in a private hospital.
Anyway I sense you are not like me, one of those irritating people who when given a bone won't let go of it until they've crunched it up (yes I know a strange analogy), even when it's not germane to either of us, so please don't trouble yourself with a reply, other perhaps than a small smile of sympathy, although there doesn't seem to be a smiley for that.
It's an unfortunate addiction, the name of which I can't remember, leading to countless hours wasted in the pursuit of information which is not in any way related to the original question. I seem to have passed this gene to both my first and third sons which is both ironically irritating to me and at the same time endearing. It makes my second son cross because I often introduce the information into the conversation, as he rightly suspects to wind him up. My fourth son, being 17, always zones out when I start talking, and immerses himself in youtube.
And yes I have another obvious though I think harmless addiction, in my long standing logorrhoea.
Well I'm off to JAPAN and the first overseas out sine the stroke. AF and Thyroid Cancer.
I had to tell them that I was recalled for the thyroid cancer return in Feb after booking the trip last september.
At the end of the conversation I agreed not to be covered for AF or Thyroid cancer as I felt little to gain to pay large amounts on these conditions.
I'm in persistent AF and my rapid Heart Rate Day is under control with a CCB that I have now had for 2.1/2 years and I've been discharged last December from a cardiac Specialist. Several tests following a recall last Feb on my 4th post thyroidectomy plus has resulted in having another CT scan in November after I come back and 6 months after last one.
I am reminded that Mum got pneumonia on our Alaska trip and Southern Cross paid out $146,000 on her claim. We were jetted back to Anchorage on returning from the Selward Small Ship Glacier & Humpwhale Experience. Mum on an oxygen tank.
But I blame medical for this. She was given antibiotics and cough suppression en route. The antibiotics ran out and the cough suppressant kept back what she should have been expecteranting. Apparently can't have the suppressant without antibiotics.
But Mum even at aged 88 was a strong person and made is out with Anchorage Hospital and me about and staff.
I'd get covered and weigh up the price for what you have now.
Everything is a risk in life.
I say it is mainly for the list of other things that could happen like stolen possessions and money, cancellation of airlines, hotel problems etc.
Think positive. a month away - a long time. Yes take your meds with you and a Dr's signed list of all your meds. Otherwise in their boxes, bottles with prescriptionm your name etc on each. I'm taking 1 month supply for 2 weeks away.
To conclude my part of the chat; I hated Brexit because I love Europe and wanted to be part of this family. Realised the downside and immediately got myself an Irish passport and have now got the same for my wider family. We can all now travel freely anywhere in Europe with all the rights and benefits this gives us including medical cover. It took a long time to sort out but well worth it.
What's more I have found that the treatment in Europe is first class. Of course I still have comprehensive health insurance for all my trips and, as previously stated, I do not want to take the risk to travel without.
You seem to have some health problems which can't be covered adequately which is a great pity. I assume you have tried all possibilities. Anyway good luck with all you do and stay safe.
AF is limiting when I want t carry on walking etc. I need to stop for a few secomds or more.
I am well controlled taking Synthroid and I'm not hypo but the insurance call you hypo if I rely on pills! Sergeon I saw last Tuesday last week said he thinks it is the Thymus 19mm x 9mm under suspicion because it shows calcification on Utra-sound. The 2 lymphs 8mm and 7mm may have been blasted by the RAiodine Pet Infusion Scan. Another CT Scan in November.
As I have no synptoms like pain, palpations or flutters I don't think about my heart in trouble.
If I make a claim for a medical event abroad I guess it will get sorted with any insurance compamy rifling through my notes but the specialists have excellent reports especially a PET scan showing that I am unremarkable! What a funny word with a negative and a positive in the world.
Brexit I never understood it. Overall I thought it was 'all Europeans are welcome here in Britain and your entitlement here is for you too'. I got a 'right of abode' as my husband (deceased) was a Brit. Are I right.
Was ending Brexit could stop foreigners (from Europe) having the same rights as Brits?
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Travel insurance - daylight robbery ?
A-Fib and Travel Insurance
travel insurance advice please 
Travel insurance : a story.
