I just wanted to pass on a danger of too many vitamins, etc.
My brother always worked out and took about 40 supplements a day as well as avoiding sugar, alcohol and anything that remotely seemed unhealthy.
He is 3 1/2 years younger than me.
All those supplements put him in Renal failure and on Dialysis.
He passed away last week.
Just a warning that all this "healthy stuff" is not always the best idea when taken to extremes.
To a point...food is just food.
Bill
so sorry for your loss FootDr . Thankyou for highlighting the dangers of excessive use of vitamins and supplements to the group .
I had a likely kidney stone pass with great pain from vitamin D supplements, and a major panic-style attack with ginseng.
I say it's best to avoid the more well-known risky supplements unless approved by a GP, myself. The internet can a very confused and often poor source of information about them as it is so often covertly supported by PR and commerce rather than objective science.
Steve
If I'm not being too intrusive, can you indicate how/why you linked Vitamin D supplements with your kidney stones?
And what form and strength and frequency was the Vitamin D that you were supplementing at that time?
My questions are genuine as I have been supplementing with Vitamin D to rectify a deficiency and it has helped to significantly reduce the frequency of my AF.
Hi ozziebob, what dose of vitD do you take.
The appropriate dosage for a particular person is a very individual question, as you no doubt already know. I still haven't settled to a dosage or level I want to achieve as best for me, and this is complicated a little by the changing available forms of Vit D available at reasonable prices online. Fortunately, my GP has now agreed to yearly Vitamin D tests (because of the affect on my AF) so I can match my more settled (but still sometimes varying) doses and forms of supplement (soft gel, tablet, dry capsule) to the resultant effects in my blood, and thus avoid under or over supplementation. But my research continues and perhaps explains my keen interest in what Ppiman replies to my question about his pain and kidney stone link to Vitamin D supplementation.
Currently I take a dry capsule with 4000iu D3 + 100mcg K2. My blood level has risen from a deficiency of 22 nmol/L in April 22 to 145 nmol/L 2 years later.
Hope this helps. What about your situation?
PS. If you are really interested in the effects of Vitamin D in a person's AF journey, you really should investigate Stephen Carr's testimony ... remarkable!
Thanks Bob, i have stored Stephen Carrs testimony, it is remarkable, last 18 months i had been taking 5000 iu of vit d daily as in ireland the sun doesnt shine as often as i would like, i had a really bad experience with a kidney stone, and thought at the time after reading somewhere that it may be the vitamin d, but who knows maybe something else high in oxalates caused it,as it was a calcium oxalate stone which i passed ,thank God, so small yet so painful, i also take k2 mk7 and magnesium , always with D as they work in tanden as im sure you know, i have reduced my D now to 4000 iu 3 days per week, i havent been getting my levels tested as its very hard to get an appointment with my gp nowadays.
Please get a Vitamin D test via your GP as you must know your serum blood level, otherwise you are risking your health. Too high and too low are both arrhythmia inducing. I'm not sure what the testing protocol is in Ireland, but explain to your GP that it's essential for your AF control. Good luck.
bob
I cannot find the reference to the order as it was a good while ago. I currently take 1000IU until the summer months. The one I took when I had the sharp kidney pain was a much higher dose but still deemed safe. My GP said it could have been the VitaminD, but, in truth, it's impossible to know. I had never had such a pain before, nor since.
Rectifying deficiency shouldn;t need a high dosage, should it? I was told that 1000IU was sufficient for that.
It's a difficult "vitamin" to understand what dosage to take and is, clearly, one that is contentious.
Steve
"I cannot find the reference to the order ..." ... not sure I understand what "the order" means in your statement.🤔
Interesting though that Tomred also mentioned the same possible link with his report above ... "i had a really bad experience with a kidney stone, and thought at the time after reading somewhere that it may be the vitamin d".
I will have to do more research on this, but at the moment I am not convinced by these 2 half-remembered references.
As to your doubt about what dose is best for you, that's why it's essential to get regular blood tests to keep track of this important hormone. And to ensure you are not harming yourself. Some people cannot absorb Vitamin D at all by supplementation, and this individual circumstance wouldn't become known unless a monitoring blood test was undertaken.
UK and NICE recommended levels of Vitamin D seem very conservative and woefully out of date (and historically based on preventing childhood rickets), and other countries like France and USA recommend much higher levels without harm.
I think the usual NHS treatment for a deficiency does include an initial large loading dose followed by a lower daily dose. If you want the details of my initial dosing regime for my deficiency, then my early Posts talk on this subject. I was concerned that my loading dose may have been too high, and I received some interesting "advice" on this at that time.
bob
There are some apparent leaps there… but I don’t think that either of us were setting out to convince you of anything - just answering your question as best we could.
My experience is far from half remembered: it’s vivid. I was only referring to the online order for the tablets that I couldn’t find, hence not knowing the potency.
By the way, what brings you to conclude that the NICE recommendation is in any way “conservative” or “woefully out of date” (and what can that mean in this context)? I think it will be the recommended dosage considered sufficient to prevent deficiency problems that are those most likely to be met with. In disease or malabsorption states, including rickets, I would think, very different doses would be given, including perhaps injected forms. I haven’t read that an oral “loading dose” was officially recognised as being useful but it might well be. In general it does seem to be non toxic.
I have annual blood tests and have only ever been either normal or on the minimum, hence my taking the supplement.
I won’t be taking higher doses again because of my past experience, albeit unproven.
Steve
supplements, even in tiny doses trigger my heart symptoms. Megadoses can put everything out of whack.
So sorry to hear about the loss of your brother. I've heeded your warning and have cut back on my supplements, thank you for letting us know.
Jean
If you can have them evaluated by your physician. There may be some you need.
Good morning FootDr
Thank you for your message on the Atrial Fibrillation support group.
We are sorry for the loss of your brother.
Thankyou for highlighting the dangers of excessive use of vitamins and supplements and to please always check with a medical professional before mixing vitamins and supplements with other medications.
Kind regards
SamAdmin
How very sad for you, and l send my condolences to you and your family. Thank you for your post and warning us of the dangers of taking supplements, There is always so much in the media advising us to take supplements for health. Wealth is made from this, at our expense. It leads us to think we are doing good for our bodies, when in fact, it is just the opposite. I think we will all take note of this warning. Thank you.
So sorry for the loss of our brother. Forty supplements certainly sounds excessive but would you be kind enough to let us know whether his doctors identified these (or some) as causing his renal failure and death? I don't wan't to be intrusive but it would be really helpful to know what he was taking and how much. I ask because some supplement (e.g., magnesium) are encouraged by many cardiologists because typical diets do not provide enough. Others (e.g., CoQ10) have not been shown to have negative side effects but have been suggested to reduce A Fib.
brlund
Hi
I understand that if we take too much of a vitamin or element our body deposes (eleminates) it.
But with supplements it doesn't. Then it actually overdoses us.
You can have your blood test give you levels so you should keep an eye on what and how you take your adding on supplements.
A friend ended up with a colloidal silver toxity as it built up and wasn't excreted.
B12 does excrete if you have too much also it stores until too much.
Interesting though.
cheri JOY
Sorry, no one put a specific suppiment on the list. He was taking 40 pills a day and doing other things.
My Brother was very bright, and he researched everything. He exercised regularly. He did a lot of research but mostly on the internet. We all know the dangers of that. If he thought something was a good idea and had enough "information" he would start taking it. As you know with some of these products we don't fully know where all the ingredients came from. Eventually he had some urinary bleeding (after 40 yrs. or so), he was 76 1/2 yrs old when he passed. It was impossible to tell what did the damage. Perhaps it was cumulative. He had some urinary bleeding and the test that were done showed Renal failure. He spent several weeks in the hospital, but it could not be reversed, so he was put on dialysis. The MI was probably the end result of all of this. He did not have a diagnosis for each item he took. I myself take about 8 things but have a diagnosis and indication for each one, and I try to buy reputable products....in the end...we can never be certain about most of this.
Hi
Oh dear how sad.
40!
I take only B12 under tongue as I am B12 deficient.
He certainly was not counting his food vitamin intake.
I lost a cousin who ate too much comfrey in his salad. His mother was into yoga and healthyeating.
My cousin was 21 years.
cheri JOY. 75. (NZ)
Sorry to learn of your loss.
Remember folks - horses for courses - as well as my AF I am also Coeliac and supplementation is important due to malabsorbtion. Fortunately (!) I also Have a blood cancer and get very regular blood tests so many factors are monitored and clearly my vast array of supplements and medications are having the desired effect of keeping me healthy (!) and active (now 80 with my pacemaker recently replaced), and daily dog walks....🙂
Do you happen to know specifics about the supplements he took? I understand you must be grieving.
I'm asking because I have some kidney failure, probably from high BP and/or too much aspirin and ibuprofen for joint pain, though kidney damage doesn't leave a signature, you just have to guess after the fact. Sometimes there's an actual disease at fault, or too much protein in his diet, or creatinine supplements, or the wrong antibiotic.
There are several herbs that can cause kidney damage. Some cheap supplements have heavy metal contamination that can damage kidneys, and the fat soluble vitamins, A and D can rarely build up in kidneys, and high dose C can cause damage that is reversible. Chromium can damage kidneys. That's all I know.
Very sorry for the loss of your brother.
Thanks for sharing your story which is informative for all. Supplements, including Vitamin D, should be discussed with a GP and blood tests given to determine need and proper dosage.
We all can be guilty of following the media advertising without consulting with our doctor.
really sorry to hear that foot Dr. 😢
Oh goodness, I’m so dreadfully sorry to read this. I have always been a bit dubious about all these supplements & try to keep my diet as healthy as I can .
Sending condolences to you and your family.
That is sad news, indeed.
I suspect that you are unlikely to convince those who take them, in my own experience, anyway. I had no idea until recently just what quantity and variety some people take, and how many take at least something. It is an utterly huge marketing exercise and one that is reaping billions of pounds from people who must accept the flimsiest of evidence and turn their backs on scientifically validated health advice from the authorities. Good luck to them.
Steve
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