First of all, I'm sorry for pasting the following text in other threadsđ I just want to make sure I get a lot of eyeballs on this, in that way a lot of answers aswellđ
I Have Persistant Afib
I'm on 60 mg lixiana one time a day (or night if you want). I have ordered Nattokinase because I suspect that all the anticoagulants will give you problems in the long run making the arteries calcified. I want to completely stop with Edoxaban but it's too dangerous, so I'm thinking about reducing the dosage over time. Has anyoune tried to reduce the dosage and completely stop taking it?
Since Nattokinase also makes blood more anticoagulant I guess taking Edoxaban (Lixiana) at the same time, could be dangerous even though Nattokinase apparently doesn't "thin" the blood as much as Edoxaban.
So, my thought is to take HALF the dosage of Edoxaban (Lixiana) 30 mg at night and take the Nattokinase at daytime, approx 12 hours after the 30 mg of Edoxaban. I guess in theory that would be safe...? đ§I don't know how many mg or FU of Nattokinase you have to take to make it dissolve plaque and clots, but I've heard around 4000-5000 FU a day should do the work. Anyone who knows?
Nattokinase also start dissolving clots pretty fast after only 4-6 hours, according to different articles, not me. That gives me a window of 6-8 hours for the Nattokinase to work and be absorbed (?) by the body before taking my 30 mg's Edoxaban at nighttime.. Anyone who's done anything similar? Only asking because the doctors doesn't know any of this and they are biased and indoctrinated by the compendium made by big pharma.
If you have a clot you don't know about and takes nattokinase, can that clot in theory dislodge and travel to the brain, heart or lungs or will it shrink so it doesn't get stuck in the big arteries only in the smaller ones?
As you may see I been doing a lot of thinking heređ and I would be very grateful if anyone has some answersđ
Have a great day!
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ZodiacLeo
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đ Here we go againâŚâŚNO and I wouldnât even think about it. Reliable, fully tested as far as possible drugs are âpushed by big pharmaâ, unreliable untested ânaturalâ products are pushed by who?
Depends how much you enjoy Russian Roulette. There are no quantifiable " herbal" anticoagulants and such practises are very dangerous. Dont even think about it!
According to the National Blood Clot Alliance replacing Edoxaban with Nattokinase, or using the two together is something to be avoided.One reason , as they state , is that despite claims of one study on the internet there is no credible evidence that Nattokinase could be used to replace Edoxaban as an anticoagulant , and even if it was fit for the task there are no guidelines to state what would be the correct dose of Nattokinase which could theoretically do the job.
They also point out that most supplements are not regulated enough to ensure that the doseage would be accurate .
In their words , avoid this option until further evidence proves that this would be a safe alternative.
I was thinking more like a supplement to clean the arteries and take care of possible blood clots (4- 6 hours) than as an anticoagulant, though the anticoagulant part of it is more on the "bonus" side of it. 2 birds with one stone. I know the lack of guidelines out there, but I know that it exist many good doctors that may have tested it out. Check my link in my previous comment. If we have a supplement that can dissolve blood clots, then the risk of stroke is 0.... "We can't have that, now can we.." I'm not pointing at you, I just know how it works. The fire extinguishers are fast in heređ
The trouble is it's not just as simple as that , partly because the process of using both the medication and the supplement at the same time could cause you to end up with an increase of the Edoxaban in your bloodstream even if they were taken 12 hours apart, and partly because you already require the medication itself. You could actually do more harm than good.I read the link , I had read the research before but just wanted to recheck the facts.
People whom are advising you , and others , to err on the side of caution with this are doing so not because they are against Nattokinase being used some time in the future to help prevent various conditions but because as yet there isn't enough evidence to be able to administer it in a way that it could be guaranteed to be successful , or even make a significant change.
It really isn't as simple as buy the supplement, take it and it will definitely work, take care of your clots and bring your scores down to 0.
To summarize the research , for anyone whom doesn't have the time to read it.
The tests on rats were done on generally healthy individuals for seeing it's usefulness in reducing cholesterol and lipids for potential use as an anti atherosclerotic and as a future statin alternative, promising , but not yet reproduced for universal human use.
The human tests to see if it could be used as a antihypertensive are in very early stages and although the results were interesting it was done on volunteers whom were pre-hypertensive or with Type 1 Hypertension whom did not already require to be on medications . The doseage has also not be universally tested or decided upon.
The tests using this as a potential future anticoagulant were not tested on humans only mice and gerbils , and so it's efficacy for use in the preventative treatment of humans has not been proved at all. Furthermore, it was only tested as an alternative to the use of aspirin not Edoxaban which has other health implications.
The most well used word in the review of research into Nattokinase was the word , " promising".
Which proves that although this cheese derivative may have practical applications in the future ; researchers are nowhere near being happy to suggest that this is definitely worth using as a substitute for tried and tested medications yet.
So , in reality , you can't really state that you know it works , because nobody knows that it works consistently as a preventative for generally healthy people , let alone that it would work as an alternative for people whom already require daily medications to manage their long term health issues.
It's sounds fantastic, I know , it's why I read the research in the first place .
I can't wait until, hopefully, it's been proven , and safe doses discovered which could mean that many generally healthy humans with no diagnosed cardiac or cholesterol issues could possibly take it in the future to delay or prevent them getting the health problems that many of us have , including AF.
But that useable hasn't been proved yet either and it would be unlikely to be used as a replacement for Edoxaban in people whom already have preexisting conditions, even if the Big Pharma companies created their own formulation.
So , with this in mind , would you still think it would be worth taking the chance of swapping a prescribed medication that works for a Supplement that may not be fit for purpose and hasn't been tested on humans as an anticoagulant yet?
Really , not being mean , just concerned , take care , Bee
The irony with heart "medicine" such as anticoagulants is that in increases progression of plaque calcification and atherosclerotic disease, so "we" end up with stiff arteries and complete blockage no mather how anti coagulant the blood is. Glad I'm taking so many antioxidants and K2 in order to help my body get rid of calcifications in the soft tissues. It has been tested and proved to remove clots. As I said, the anticoagulant effect was just a "bonus"
I would like to learn more about anticoagulants increasing plaque calcification and atherosclerotic disease, can you provide any links to information about this? Thanks in advance.
Well, my CHADS score is 0 I don't smoke or drink. Nattokinase has been around for hundreds of years and they use it regularly in Japan. I take Magnesium, B.vitamin complex, CoQ10, K2-D3 combo, Omega 3, L-Carnitine and L-Arginine. Sometimes D-Ribose if I need a boost in the ATP energy. Works like magic! I also eat 1 clove garlic every day.
Nattokinase probably isn't "documented enough" and regulated by the pharma because they can't patent it. It's a shame when we see the potential it has; ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... But, no patent=no money I guess.. 99% of the "medicine" used today only address the symptoms and not the cause. Wonder why....
If your CHADS score is 0 you wouldnât be offered an anticoagulant, not in the UK at least. In which case itâs not a choice between nattokinase or an anticoagulant if youâre not taking an anticoagulant in the first place or have been advised you donât need to because of your CHADS score. Neither then would it make sense for you to combine an anticoagulant with nattokinase.
If you are not on an anticoagulant then the choice for you is between nattokinase and not taking nattokinase at all, in which case you donât need to worry about how it will interact with an anticoagulant. So itâs entirely up to you whether you take it or not, if the alternative is not taking anything.
It seems to me you have already decided so I donât know what the point of your post is. You donât need anyoneâs permission or approval, so what you choose to do isnât anybody elseâs concern, is it?
If I wasn't on Lixiana and had Afib there would be no point posting in here, now would it.. I'm not from the UK, but that's good to know . The reason why they recommended Lixiana was obviously because of my Afib, since the risk of stroke apparently is higher than when the heart beat in normal sinus, right..? And the reason why the risk of stroke is higher with afib is because the blood pools and becomes sluggish and can lead to the forming of blood clots.. Knowing that Nattokinase can dissolve blood clots was the reason of my comments in here.. If I do NOT need anticoagulants, please let me know..
You are an absolutely correct about stroke risk and AF, and whether there are risk differences between paroxysmal, persistent or permanent, and whether or not the risk persists after a successful ablation or is lower when more time is spent in NSR has been discussed at length in this forum. Opinions differ and itâs not easy to tease out any hard and fast information. Oneâs risk is always going to be a combination of many different factors so an internet opinion expressed by a stranger may not be relevant to your individual situation. That goes for everyone.
In the UK the CHADS score is used when determining to prescribe an anticoagulant to people with AF. If your score is 0 you wouldnât be prescribed one, so Iâm a bit confused about that. Perhaps if you are in permanent AF your healthcare providers thought it prudent? But thatâs what I mean about individual risk, itâs all on a spectrum, isnât it? You will have a different risk profile compared with a 75 year old with several comorbidities, who may have a CHADS score of 4 or 5. I donât think it would be wise to advise a high risk person to throw away their meds and buy a supplement that might show a small benefit for mice and gerbils living in laboratory conditions. If someone is young, seemingly healthy and wants to prevent the onset of a condition they may be genetically predisposed to from their family history, thatâs a different scenario entirely. A supplement in combination with a healthy lifestyle may prevent that person being diagnosed with that condition until much later in life, and hopefully not at all.
Combining herbal remedies with prescription medications can be unwise because of potential interactions, so if this is what you plan to do you will have to be alert to this. I donât think the risks, if any, are known. So as long as you know you are proceeding at your own risk, and you are sure you want to do it, then OK. You seem to be keen, so you do you. Nobody here wants to see anyone suffer, thatâs all.
I was absolutely NOT correct but you implied otherwise. The stroke risk and AF according to Professor Richard Schilling doesn't change even when getting rid of afib. (link provided by "secondtry"). So why I'm on anticoagulants is a mystery. Like you said, I wouldn't even been offered it, or "shouldn't" is a more correct word. The stroke risk doesn't change even if I get rid of the Afib for good, hence why Afib isn't on the CHADS score-list and my score is 0.
See YouTube, Professor Richard Schilling, anticoagulants.
Also re Nattokinaise, more information may well be around the corner as medics are just starting to use it along with with other supplements to remove the Spike protein re the pandemic/C-jab; see covid19criticalcare.com/pro...
Thanks! I'll check it out. Yes, I've heard about Nattokinase and its ability to take care of spike, it's really good, let's hope they continue the search. Vitamin C, D, Nigella seed, Curcumin, Zinc, Ivermectin and NAC are also on the list.
Double post; Boy, am I glad i didn't listen to the "experts" in here regarding not to take nattokinase... I posted this yesterday but forgot to put the answer as a reply. I re-studied the info you linked to, followed the crumbs and started with a supplement that has Nattokinase and K2 and felt a big change in only a couple of days. Nattokinase is known to dissolve clots in only 6 hours and I feel a lot better. My heart doesn't have to work so bad in order to pump the blood around. At least it is what it feels like. It feels like an obstacle or something has been taken care of or something. Idk how to describe it, only that my breathing is lighter/easier, I'm not jaded and I can't feel my heartbeat in the same eerie way anymore. It's more normal now and it is a BIG relief!
I could only guess, but I think I maybe have dissolved ( a/some ) clots or/and soft tissue calcification.
I add it with CoQ10 and all the other supplements mentioned earlier.
Anyway I also want to thank you guys, because all of the different answers made me think and analyse and make this decision. Excuse my imperfect English. As mentioned earlier, it's not my native language but good enough for you to understandđ
With that said, if you're on the fence, I'm not recommending anything, I just stated what worked for me. Have a nice day.
Boy, am I glad i didn't listen to the "experts" in here regarding not to take nattokinase... I started with a supplement that has Nattokinase and K2 and felt a big change in only a couple of days. Nattokinase is known to dissolve clots in only 6 hours and I feel a lot better. My heart doesn't have to work so bad in order to pump the blood around. At least it is what it feels like. It feels like an obstacle or something has been taken care of or something. Idk how to describe it, only that my breathing is lighter/easier, I'm not jaded and I can't feel my heartbeat in the same eerie way anymore. It's more normal now and it is a BIG relief!
I could only guess, but I think I maybe have dissolved ( a/some ) clots or/and soft tissue calcification.
I add it with CoQ10 and all the other supplements mentioned earlier.
Anyway I also want to thank you guys, because all of the different answers made me think and analyse and make this decision. Excuse my imperfect English. As mentioned earlier, it's not my native language but good enough for you to understandđ
With that said, if you're on the fence, I'm not recommending anything, I just stated what worked for me. Have a nice day.
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