Can I stop my blood thinner?

[Ecuadorlover]

I was told I had A.fib last year after getting covid for the 2nd time. I was put on the blood thinner, Lixiana 60 mg daily. I got covid again for the 3rd time. I have had chest tightness, SOB and increased heart rate since. I am already on Nattokinase 2 capsules twice daily and want to start Serrapeptase for the inflammation, etc, caused by covid. They say not to take these two supplements while on blood thinners. I would like to stop Lixiana as it is not helping my long covid symptoms. My calcium score on a virtual angiogram was 0% x 4. Any suggestions? My INR is 1.47

[Paulbounce]

Hi Ecuadorlover.

Forum members are not medically qualified. We can only tell you of our own experiences. Perhaps someone on the forum has been through the same thing and can give you their own personal take on it. I can't.

I think you need to speak to a medic about this for the best advice. A call to your local pharmacy might be an idea but I think you should check with a doctor. It's not a good idea to stop an anticoagulant (blood thinner) without medical advice.

Happy Friday.

Paul

[Ecuadorlover in reply to Paulbounce]

Thanks. I'll start with the pharmacy and I have a cardiology consult. I started serrapeptase along with the lixiana and the elephant on my chest is pretty much gone! However I'm on too many blood thinners and need to get professsional advice. Thanks.

[BobD Volunteer]

Do not make any decisions without careful discussion with your cardiologist. You were put on anticoagulation for a reason.

[BenHall1]

Lixiana is also known as Edoxaban. It is an anticoagulant, therefore, it is hardly likely to impact on any CoVid symptoms. So far I've never had any CoVid symptoms or indeed CoVid either. I have taken Edoxaban and Warfarin as anticoagulants ... quite successfully for years. Suggest you discuss this with your GP or some other qualified healthcare professional.

With the benefit of reading many posts on this forum I wouldn't dream of stopping Edoxaban ... but its your call, you do what you feel you need to.

[Ecuadorlover in reply to BenHall1]

Thanks Ben. The serrapeptase is definitely helping my long covid but I'm now on too many blood thinners so I'll discuss with my cardiologist.

[Espeegee in reply to BenHall1]

Could I ask why you take blood thinners? Do you have Afib or other heart issues?

[BenHall1 in reply to Espeegee]

Hiya Espeegee,

Sure ....... I was diagnosed with paroxysmal AF with a bias to being asymptomatic aged 65 in January 2010 ( 15 years coming up ). The worst of all odds !! In other words I could be experiencing an AF event and not even know it ......... no symptoms, nothing. Thus my Cardiac Consultant at the time determined I should go on anticoagulant for life and also long term Bisoprolol. These were additions to my existing party bag of drugs which already comprised, Simvastatin, Ramipril and Felodopine.

In those far off days (2010) Warfarin was just about the ONLY anticoagulant available to the community. These 4 new ones, like Edoxaban, were still very much in the research and development stages. I have tried Edoxaban a year or so ago but for my trouble I was cursed with the most horrendous, graphic and vile nightmares resulting in sleepness nights and I put the whole product in the bin and went back to Warfarin.

My AF is still highly controlled however every 4 or 5 years an event kicks off for a short while. I might add, due to constant coughing my GP has approved my dropping Ramipril, however in doing so - it has had very little impact on my BP and HR, which is running at around 132/78 with HR 70. Good enough.

John

[Espeegee in reply to BenHall1]

Gosh! My husband drove me mad with his coughing, every night as he got into bed he started. After a few months I told him he needed to do something. Went to the GP who said oh that's probably the BP meds and changed it, second one was as bad and then he said you probably don't need it and stopped it. Never a problem with the cough or the BP since, makes you wonder. Having AF with no symptoms, that's unusual, at least you didn't have to worry about it! Statins, well, I just wouldn't, My mum was put on Warfarin following a mini stroke. When she had a second stroke just over a year later it was catastrophic, I very much suspect the warfarin was to blame, she never recovered. I've had paroxysmal AF for years, I don't take anything. I once read that it's not likely to kill you, good enough for me lol. It's unpleasant but no more than that.

[BenHall1 in reply to Espeegee]

Well the latest update is that the coughing hasn't stopped that much, even so, I still plan to stay off the Ramipril. My GP has now decided to have me checked out for lung issues and I have to have Lung Function tests ( a 5 hour round trip in the car to Plymouth and return ) a Spirometry with Reversibility Test -they are trying to identify Asthma or COPD. Oh well, so long as the weather is good it'll be a nice day out. 😊

[Ecuadorlover in reply to Espeegee]

Told I had A.Fib after getting COVID and had trouble breathing with any exertion

[Cavalierrubie]

l was told l would be on an anticoagulant for life because of my diagnosis of AF and the risk of having a stroke. AF causes the blood to pool and form into clots. I wouldn’t advise stopping your anticoagulant if you have been diagnosed with AF., because it doesn’t go away and can only be treated not cured. Anticoagulant shouldn’t have any effect on Covid symptoms.

[Espeegee in reply to Cavalierrubie]

The stats I saw were that 75% of those with afib didn't have strokes, I think those are pretty decent odds. I've never taken anticoagulants and I've had paroxysmal Afib for at least 10 years. Individual choice of course.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Espeegee]

Where did you see that please? I dislike taking warfarin. I don’t tolerate the new DOAC’s and only just tolerate warfarin. It makes me tired etc.

My dad had a stroke, and my grandad, so l consider myself to be higher risk.

[Espeegee in reply to Cavalierrubie]

I can’t remember where I saw it originally but I’ve found this: “There are different types of heart rhythm problem (arrhythmia), and atrial fibrillation is the most common. Around 1.4 million people in the UK have AF. It’s a major risk factor for stroke, and around 20% of all strokes are caused by AF. ” from here groups.stroke.org.uk/what-i... which means that 80% of strokes aren’t related to Afib. I’m not sure where their figures come from but having looked at lots of papers on Afib and Stroke it’s not quite as easy as saying Afib might cause stroke because there appear to be other relevant factors that may also predispose to stroke not all of which are present in everyone who has a stroke or who has Afib. It’s tricky trying to disseminate all the info because I don’t understand how the figures used.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Espeegee]

Thanks for info. I agree there are most likely other relevant factors that predispose to stroke, but surely the risk is there for all if the blood pools and forms into clots during an attack. I would think the more attacks we have and, the more prolonged they are, that it poses more of a risk to stroke. As we are all so unique, it makes sense that we all take an anticoagulant to be safe. It would be very difficult for any medic to say, for certain, that we are not at risk for having a stroke, unless of course our ChadS. is 0. It would be like playing Russian Roulette. For this reason, l feel that the anticoagulant is the most important treatment for AF. There is research going on for taking it as a PIP which would be much better, but what if you are not symptomatic ?It’s all difficult. What we need is a cure.

[Espeegee in reply to Cavalierrubie]

My mother had a TIA after which she was put on Warfarin. A year or so later she had a catastrophic bleed from which she didn't recover. I very much suspect that if she hadn't been on blood thinners she might not have died, that makes me very nervous about taking them so I don't. So far so good and it must be at least 10 years since I started with Afib maybe even longer.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Espeegee]

Yes, l understand how you must feel. Under those circumstances, l would probably do the same. I think when we have our parents genes it has to be taken into account. I am sorry for your mum, that must have been an awful time. Do you take supplements? I think certain foods and additives like tumeric can help and have anticoagulant properties, but you have gone 10 years so………. I do agree with you that we should question everything that we put into our bodies. The medical profession are quick to write a prescription with not always investigating the cause. They have made a few blunders with me in the past, so l am extra vigilant with medications. You take care and keep well. X

[Espeegee in reply to Cavalierrubie]

It wasn’t a good time, Mum was fit and well up until then but she was in her 80s and curiously was hypothyroid and had PA and had had pneumonia which affected her heart. She went to hospital in an ambulance reasonably compus mentis and was left in a side room with just my sister who wasn’t medically aware really, no one saw her for 2 hours by which time she was unconscious, she never recovered. I take turmeric and boswellia as I have arthritic knees, Vit D3&K2, B3, B12, folate, Vit C, and Akkermansia. I do swap about a bit though lol. I also self medicate with Levothyroxine and T3 because the NHS refuse to accept I’m hypothyroid or that my B12 levels are too low despite both my sister and Mum having PA, my mum being hypo and I’m sure my sister was too. I strongly believe we all need to be proactive with our health because GPs seem to have lost a lot of the ability to diagnose or to know about advances in treatment despite it all being out there on the internet.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Espeegee]

You sound as if you are doing fine. Only we know our own bodies and how we feel. We have also been given intuition! You just have to shout a bit louder today! X

[ForensicFairy in reply to Espeegee]

20% is 1 in 5 people. Will you risk being that one of a group of 5?

Although when you say 4 in 5 won’t have a stroke it sounds better, realistically, it’s a very high number of people who have strokes caused by AF when you look at all of the causes of strokes.

[Espeegee in reply to ForensicFairy]

What I was saying though was that there is no indication of what else they may have that predisposes them to a stroke too. Diabetes for example is also considered a stroke risk, obesity another. Possibly those who have Afib and other disorders are more represented in the 1 in 5nthan just those with Afib?

[ForensicFairy in reply to Espeegee]

Yes, I understand now. Thanks for clarifying

It should be noted though that some of the additional risks are because they increase your chance of AF - such as obesity. Anyway, regardless, it’s a high risk. Smoking, obesity, lack of activity and diabetes are all risks and we can do something to help lower these risks. Medications reduce them as well.

My experience with strokes was lived through my father who suffered a stroke and was left unable to sit, stand, talk or walk for 4.5 years before he died. In an instant he went from a man who wasn’t entirely healthy, but was ok, to a vegetable in a bed wearing nappies. Admittedly he had previous brain damage which didn’t help his outcomes.

[opal11uk]

No drug should be stopped without seeking medical advice, if you have been prescribed then there is a good reason. I did not take anticoagulants when first diagnosed and subsequently had a stroke, this would not happened had I been taking an anticoagulant , so seek medical advice.

[Espeegee in reply to opal11uk]

Not necessarily! The GPs just follow guidelines and prescribe by rote. When OH was diagnosed with T2D he was immediately prescribed Metformin, statins (!), and an anti-hypertensive and aspirin because it's what they do. There was no sign of any heart issues or high blood pressure. They never mentioned he should lose some weight though, he was 20st at that point. He doesn't take any blood pressure meds, aspirin or the statins. I don't have much faith in them any more.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Espeegee]

I agree that there is not enough individual diagnosis and the blasé attitude is quite worrying. I think one has to be very alert with that. My concern is for the people who are not in a position to query because they can’t cope. Mistakes must be made because of this lack of care. However, l do think that there is a risk of stroke with AF as poor Opal has experienced and many others. l would not be prepared to stop taking an anticoagulant but as you say, it is an individual choice.

[Omniscient1]

I would be thinking that the Lixiana has been prescribed by a medic who is aware of your situation. Did they know you were already taking natto? By taking it you are potentially adding some unmeasurable level of anti coagulation to the measured dosage you're getting from the Lixiana.Id drop the natto and check the Serrapeptase with a pharmacist.

[Omniscient1 in reply to Omniscient1]

I would not in any circumstances stop the prescribed meds without a Drs advice.

[Sixtychick]

I had an ablation last year, but have been told that I have to stay on the anti- coagulant, Edoxaban, for life. I wouldn’t stop it, unless advised to by a Doctor.

[Budken]

You should not be asking here, you should be asking your Doctor, or at least your Pharmacist.

[Ecuadorlover in reply to Budken]

Thanks. Indeed I'm just seeking experiences and will discuss this with a pharmacist and my cardiologist.

[RoyMacDonald]

With any arrhythmia you need to be on an anticoagulant or you are at risk of a stroke. I had a major stroke being completely paralysed down my right side because I did not take my prescribed anticoagulant. I have the Covid jabs regularly without any side effects as the anticoagulant can have no effect on Covid of any type.

All the best.

Roy

[Wilkie1]

Hi I think the wise counsel given here is to take medical advice. Whilst some people may say that everyone who has atrial fibrillation should be on an anticoagulant that's not the guideline advice. There is a small risk of major bleeding/hemorrhagic stroke with anticoagulant use therefore that needs to be weighed against the risk of stroke associated with your atrial fibrillation. That requires an individualised assessment of risk using a CHA2DS2-VASc screen. My understanding of that is for men if your score is 0 then the risk from the anticoagulant medication is greater than the risk from the atrial fibrillation and vise- versa for scores of 2 and above.

[Ecuadorlover in reply to Wilkie1]

Thanks. I even question, Do I really have A.Fib or was it because of the severe covid inflammation in my lungs causing an increased heart rate....

[Buzby62 in reply to Ecuadorlover]

Hi, you may find it helpful to read the AF Fact File to understand the different types of AF (Persistent or Paroxysmal).

Link to patient resources heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...

My paroxysmal episodes were mildly symptomatic usually but covid was always a trigger for a symptomatic episode prior to having an ablation. I’ve had covid since and no AF with it.

There’s lots to learn and knowledge is the key so my advice is to read as much as you can from the above link and maybe learn how to check your pulse for AF to know if you are in it or not.

Only your medics can stop anticoagulant so don’t make that decision.

Best wishes

[Ecuadorlover]

Thanks I was told I had a fib in emergency, but I was also experiencing a lot of long covid issues. I’ll ask my cardiologist about it