Helloš does anyone as afib and doing nothing like me, I have persistent chronic afib for 4y now but NOT feeling it, only the cardiologist see it with control! He advised me to take Eliquis or I could have a stroke or heart attack! Iām sure and respect heās medical knowledge and not against medication to save lives but in my case when I feel nothing and read all the side effects I refuse to take it! Instead I prefer the natural herbs, oil, vitamins and healthy lifestyle! Iām good with that, but doc says no way and heās angry with me and that gives me stress because he says Iām gonna die š«£ anyone the same experience, thank you ā¤ļø
Experience with no medication! - Atrial Fibrillati...
Experience with no medication!
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BobDVolunteer
We all have free choice but that should be from education and knowledge. AF related strokes account for only 20% of all but 80% of the least recoverable. You really are playing Russian roulette so I understand your doctor's reaction. There are no proven natural anticoagulants.
in reply to BobD
Thank you very much BobD, I know Iām playing Russian roulette but Iām always having my cayenne pepper with me! One can have a stroke or heart attack without having afib! ā¤ļø
Not enough information there to help me make a useful comment.
in reply to BenHall1
Hi BenHall1 , 4years ago I ask my husbandās cardiologist to control my heart and then he said I have Afib they did all the control necessary and concluded persistent afib! I have a pulse in rest 60 to 80 and when I exercise it is up to 120 when I sleep itās 55 to 60. So thatās why I didnāt feel it! Iām 68y old no other health issues, 60kg 1,72m blood pressure 70/110 and cholesterol 195 high HDL and low LDL triglycerides 79. So 4y ago they did a cardio version on me and I had to take Elequis before it, I was very sick of this but did take it because of the cardio version! They said it was successful after 1 shock! But one month later I was back in AFib! Then the cardiologist said I had to take Eliquis again, then I refused because I was very sick of it! Since that time I take natural blood thinner curcuma, ginger, vit.E Omega 3 and healthy foods as blood thinner! If you have more questions just ask and thanks in advance for reply ā¤ļø
I had a TIA .I was not not on an anticoagulant thinking I knew better. Cardiologist said I may not be so lucky next time so I started on Warfarin and then changed to Apixaban. It was a better choice for me than to risk a major stroke.
in reply to 10gingercats
Sorry 10gingercats to hear you had TIA , hope all is well now and thanks for info I know š«£ Iām taking a risk everyone is telling me but my weight is 60kg for 1,72m , blood pressure 110/70 , cholesterol 195 and feeling healthy! Meds gonna put me down I know ā¤ļø
CDreamer in reply to
None of which lowers your stroke risk. I stopped Anticoagulants after āsuccessfulā ablation, few months later I had TIA - couldnāt get back on them fast enough. Itās only heart Med I take but one I would never risk stopping again, I had to learn the hard way though, hope you are luckier.
Treatments for AF, other than prophylactic anticoagulants, are mainly to improve QOL so if meds donāt then I agree no point in tsking them. I felt dreadful on the meds and much happier and healthier without.
Your body, your choice.
in reply to CDreamer
Soo sorry to hear you had a stroke CDreamer , hope all is good with you now ā¤ļø
I am slightly surprised at your question on this site, effectively saying you know better than a Cardiologist. The experts live eat and breathe their specialism, case by case, and research and epidemiological studies. You were happy to use their time to be diagnosed then ignored their considered advice. You haven't provided in your question any evidence to explain what your self medicating remedies do for your condition a d to prevent any future health issues.Here's my experience. Fit, healthy 70 year old layed flat by a full right side stroke, I literally felt the life draining away from me and fought hard to keep my brain alive until help arrived. I've written elsewhere about the brilliance of the NHS.
Immediate investigations showed no detectable issues so medicated with antiplatelet medication.
But medicine progresses and the NHS/NICE based on the evidence are running a programme to improve heart monitoring with the aim of reducing deaths from sudden stroke by 6500. I was fitted with an LINQ implant, monitoring my heart remotely as a 27/7/365 ECG. After two months a paroxysmal AFib was detected. This resulted in an immediate change of meds to anticoagulant to reduce the probability of a further stroke.
Had I had this opportunity before my stroke, as some people are, including you, I would have grabbed it. I guess you've not come across too many stroke victims.
Sorry to be so strident, yes its your body, but see a witchdoctor for your confirmation bias not the NHS.
in reply to Chinkoflight
Thank you very much for reply Chin, and NO I didnāt say I now better then the specialist, I respect there points and study! I say and ask I donāt want to take medication because of the side effects, wanna stay healthy and take curcuma, opc, ginger, vit.E Omega 3 , multivitamin en Cayenne pepper in my tea and eating healthy, no drugs no alcohol and I have thin blood of my own! I read a lot of comments on the internet about the risk of anticoagulant and internal bleeding! So Iām afraid of this! Thank you very much ā¤ļø
CDreamer in reply to
PS - I also take the supplements you mention but also the anticoagulants. Iād like to see the āevidenceā on the internet which says a/c cause bleeds? They can exacerbate existing bleeds but that could be a good thing as GI bleeds can go unnoticed. This happened to my husband, it was checked out and dealt with. Depends really which you fear most - stroke or bleeds. Bleeds can be and are stopped, even serious ones, strokes cannot be undone.
Iām far more fearful of stroke.
in reply to CDreamer
Hi CDreamer š if you take anticoagulants you must be very careful with taking herbal supplements, taking both can cause more bleeding! Itās written in all notice of supplements or medication to be careful! ā¤ļø and I fear both, really ā¤ļø
Hi Natural
I do understand where youāre coming from in your reluctance to take meds. The problem is that, as your cardio has said, AFib, whether you feel it or not, does increase your risk of having a stroke and, as Bobd has mentioned, strokes caused by AF tend to be the most serious type. In addition, if your heart rate in AFib is persistently high, that can lead to heart failure if not controlled. Your cardiologist should have discussed the risk with you using a scoring system called ChadsVasc. This awards points for additional risk factors you may have such as being over 65, having high blood pressure etc. The more points means the higher your risk of a stroke. The problem with natural anticoagulants is that they are untested and so the effectiveness and dosing strategy isnāt known. I am aware of at least a couple of members on the forum who experienced a stroke whist taking Nattokinase, a natural blood ā thinnerā.
At the end of the day it has to be your choice, of course. Iām also in persistent AF but not yet taking an AC as am 58 and have no other risk factors, so only score 1 on ChadsVasc by dint of being female but I will revisit that choice once I get to 65.
All the best to you, whatever you decide, TC
Hello Naturalforever, whilst I recognise your right to ignore the advice of your Doctor, you really are taking a huge risk which is likely to result in devastating circumstances. Think of stroke as being a silent killer, no symptoms, no warnings and no escape if it happens, unless possibly, if you are close enough to a hospital to be treated when it happens.
We know the cost of drugs in the US is a major issue and generally why there is a desire to find cheaper alternatives or seek all means possible to limit the expenditure. Iām going to approach the problem in a different way. Below is a link to a paper produced by the BMJ (the British Medical Journal) which is a recognised and highly respected source of medical information. That said, itās also very boring and I certainly donāt expect you to read it!
heart.bmj.com/content/107/1...
In the UK current we are very lucky, the cost of drugs are strictly controlled and pensioners and others with serious health issues donāt pay anything although we all pay contributions from our wages/salaries.
According to the BMJ, the NHS spends around Ā£770,000,000 to provide the population with anticoagulants to reduce their risk of stroke and this is the conclusions they make:
Conclusions
Despite nearly oneāmillion additional DOAC prescriptions and substantial associated spending in the latter part of this study, the decline in AF-related stroke led to incremental savings at the national level.
Please understand, no government would invest that amount of money unless they were convinced it was the right thing to do to save lives.
However, itās your choice and you must decide to do whatās best for youā¦..
mjames1 in reply to
.FJ ..In the UK current we are very lucky, the cost of drugs are strictly controlled and pensioners and others with serious health issues donāt pay any....
No doubt you will hear more about (PIP Anticoagulation) from your fellow compatriots but please, please donāt be tempted to try it before the results are published and always discuss with your doctorā¦good luck...
----------------------
The OP clearly states that she is concerned about the side effects of thinners, not the cost. Both the US and UK healthcare system have their plusses and minuses. Please let's keep thread on topic.
As to PIP anticogulation, your mention of it in this thread suggests a misunderstanding of the concept. PIP AC's (trial or off label) are only for people with few and far between afib episodes that are monitored. The OP is in "chronic afib for 4 years" and would not qualify for PIP AC by a mile. In fact, by definition, PIP anticoagulation is irrelevant for someone in chronic afib.
So why would the OP "hear more" about it here? I certainly would not have mentioned it to the OP as a choice and only bring it up now to clear up the confusion you have created about it.
Jim
Itās always difficult when Brits try help folks from over seas and vice versa because methods of treatment are always so different in different countries. As I understand it, there are trials underway in the States to look at the possibility of taking anticoagulants as a PiP (pill in the pocket). That will take at least 5 years to draw its conclusions and even if it is successful, itās only likely to be suitable for some AF patients. No doubt you will hear more about that from your fellow compatriots but please, please donāt be tempted to try it before the results are published and always discuss with your doctorā¦good luck.
in reply to
Thanks FlapJack āŗļø I always have my cayenne pepper in hot tea with me itās a life saver for heart attack and stroke it was said by my husbandās cardiologist ā¤ļø
Hi!
Finally somebody who thinks like I do! I am 71, male, with AF at night, almost every night, and on no medication and without any treatment for AF. I do not need it!
My resting HR is about 48 bpm, when in AF it is about 80-90 bpm, no symptoms at all, so no medications for me. As for the anticoagulation, I am with you - I may suffer a stroke, but may not... But, those ones who take anticoagulants will do it for decades, trying to prevent something that might not happen anyway. They will put through their kidneys a lot of medication, their liver will have to deal with all the chemicals they take and last, but not least, internal bleeding is something that may happen for a long time without being noticed. I am also low weight, healthy and active, so why to spoil it...? Personal choice, in any case!
in reply to
Hi Nesko š thanks so much, completely agree with you ā¤ļø my husband is a heart patient for 8y now and all the drugs he must take āto stay alive ā from doc advised as made him to a zombie!!! Thank you very much ā¤ļø
in reply to
You will have to answer all the comments, which will come today or even tomorrow, so you will be busy. When the storm is over, I offer you a chat via Personal Messages, just to see where both of us are. During the past 10+ years of my being with this forum, there have not been many people with the attitude like ours.
To my knowledge asymptomatic afib, as an afib subset, has never been studied for stroke risk, so that stands in your favor, although I stand to be corrected if wrong.
On the other hand, without data, it would be wishful thinking to think that you would be less prone to stroke than someone with symptomatic afib.
Your lifestyle choices also stand to your favor, but being in persistent afib does not.
I certainly get your reluctance to take thinners and respect your choice, but I was in your exact situation, I'd be on thinners
As to "natural" thinners", do check the source of any claims they work to the extent that they prevent strokes, because you do not want to be making a choice based on faulty information.
Jim
in reply to mjames1
Thank you very much Jim āŗļø yes soo true what you said, thatās why I joined here on the forum for help on my choices! I know taking much of natural supplements is also a risk! Thank you ā¤ļø
If you have been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation (AF), there are changes in the upper chambers of the heart (atria) which means they no longer contract properly. Blood within the atria can slow down and stagnate, making the chances of a blood clot forming more likely. For everyone with AF (even those who are asymptomatic, or do not 'feel it'), these changes mean the blood is more likely to form small clots in the heart. If these clots move out of the heart and into the general circulation then they can block the blood vessels that supply the organs, such as the brain, and cause a stroke.
AF increases the risk of stroke by 500%, a five-fold increase. It is imperative that an AF patient classed as āat riskā is prescribed anticoagulant medication to inhibit the coagulation of the blood. This reduces the risk of clots and stroke.
There are no proven natural remedies that can take the place of anti-coagulant medication.
You may like to take a look at our booklet on Preventing an AF-Related Stroke here: api.heartrhythmalliance.org...
If you have any questions regarding anti-coagulants or stroke risk, please feel free to contact our Patient Services Team : info@afa-us.org
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