Go ahead with another ablation or not.? - AF Association

AF Association

22,879 members27,719 posts

Go ahead with another ablation or not.?

Jetcat profile image

I’m in a little bit of a dilemma and want to know what you guys/girls think. Iv had 3 PVI ablations for PAF and I’d say I’m doing rather well. I had a fourth ablation cancelled 12 months ago because of the covid situation we’ve all been in. When it was cancelled I started myself on multi vitamins and daily dose of 300mg magnesium as my ectopics were driving me mad. It has indeed stopped my ectopics by 90% and it also lessen any afib episodes greatly in length and frequency. But out of blue last week my EP secretary called me to tell me my EP is going to call me with a phone appointment regarding my fourth ablation.!!! The only time I know Iv had any afib is when I check my wrist monitor and there maybe a high spike in heart rate for no longer than a hour sometimes only five minutes. So I’m wondering wether to hold off for now or go ahead with it.!I know My EP won’t be pleased that I put myself on magnesium as he was dead against it when I mentioned the subject two years ago but out of desperation due to not been able to see my EP because of the covid situation I did start the magnesium supplement. I’m going to tell him what Iv done and hope he’s ok with it.?? I’ll probably get a telling off.?? So that’s where I am, I’m hoping he says we will leave it a while as I don’t want to spoil things at this present time. I’ll let you what happens after my phone call appointment.👍 thankyou.

50 Replies

I'm interested to know why your EP is against Magnesium?Personally , as your episodes are not affecting your QOL, I would hold fire.

I've also had 3 ablations and have my 4th scheduled for 10days time. I have delayed and dithered over having this for the past 2/3 years and finally decided it had to be when my tally of DCCVs exceeded 20 ( had 22nd last week...)

It's your choice at the end of the day and no one can guarantee how successful the outcome will be.

Good luck !

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to Jalia

Hi Jalia, thankyou very much for your reply I appreciate it. my EP is lovely chap and I show him a great deal of respect and thanks for all he and his team has done for me. but for some reason he really did not like it when I asked him for advice/ permission to try magnesium. He told me he does not treat arrhythmias with magnesium and that’s it.😳 so I left it there.

Jalia profile image
Jalia in reply to Jetcat

I understand! It is often only later that we wonder why we didn't ask for further elucidation !

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to Jalia

That’s true jalia. And This unwanted afib friend of mine is a dam nuisance sometimes but I’m so glad Iv got you guys and girls.👍x

Diver2 profile image
Diver2 in reply to Jetcat

Magnesium helps your body process vitamins and minerals like vit D and potassium. My EP suggested I try them...... finny how each person/doctor has a different view of vitamins and minerals depending n what he's been reading!

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to Diver2

Yes it is because I have seen some cardiologists/EPs praise magnesium and some other supplements too.

Diver2 profile image
Diver2 in reply to Jalia

Please take into consideration that every time they do an eblation, they are buring your heart and scar tissue is developing. Thry are damaging your heart. I actually had a student ddoctor stop by my room after my third eblation and advise me to not get anymore ablations. There was already too mch scar tissue in my heart!

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to Diver2

I would suspect heart tissue to be very sensitive and delicate.? I may be wrong I don’t know. But yes I can imagine how it would scar after been burnt.! It’s bad enough when you burn your finger etc.😳

Hi Jetcat, I am in a similar situation regarding a third ablation and my EP was happy to wait and see before now committing to a having it. I don’t think they will have a problem filling the slot but you will probably have to go back to the end of a very long queue if you later change your mind. I believe most EP’s would acknowledge that there may be benefits in taking a magnesium supplement and I doubt he would be critical about you doing something to help your situation. I suggest that you are open with him and tell him how you feel. If he suggests discharging you then you may want to take a different view and go ahead with the ablation......good luck

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to FlapJack

Thank you flapjack, i really appreciate it.👍👍

Bambi65 profile image
Bambi65 in reply to FlapJack

I usually agree with FlapJack but not on this. " you are open with him and tell him how you feel. If he suggests discharging you then you may want to take a different view and go ahead with the ablation." Absolutely NOT!

My belief is that a doctor is Your consultant, not a parent, not a boss. He can offer suggestions based on his/her experience, education and make recommendations. You live in your body, you know your body, you make educated decisions based on your experience, education, information gathered from difference sources, but never make a decision out of fear, nor ultimatums. I use to tell my kids from the time when they were little, to make decisions; look for 3 or more options. If you only have 2, then that is not a decision, its an ultimatum.

Momma use to say, "when in doubt, dont." Ablations beget ablations. Try everything else before burning/freezing the inside of your heart, destroying the cells. If the Magnesium is working for you, GREAT! Keep it going regardless of what your doc sais. If he dumps you, consider that a blessing. He is not open and listening to new information.

Make informed decisions about your body, without being "pressured" or "told you have to" , into doing something you are not sure of. Many here have had great results with Magnesium, many other reputable docs have also suggested taking it. Try other non-traditional methods that have worked for others as well. The Old standby method of multiple ablations, will unfortunately be there.

Take care of you. Be your best advocate. And live your life with zest and without regret. Best of luck, and good fortune to you.

FlapJack profile image
FlapJack in reply to Bambi65

I don’t disagree with you Bambi, but I think our health care process here in the UK is very different to what generally happens in the States. Here, if you are lucky, you get referred to see a specialist by your GP (general Doctor) and then you remain under the care of that Specialist until such time as there is little more he/she can do to treat you. That level of care and treatment is free to the patient although funded by national insurance which is effectively a national tax. Jetcat has indicated that his EP is likely to have strong views about using supplements therefore it is quite possible that if he categorically refuses to go ahead with the ablation then there is a possibility that he will be discharged and that could have serious consequences for him. What is perhaps not clear in my response that I was due to have an ablation in 2020 but it was postponed until 2021 due to Covid. However, due to having thyroid treatment, we agreed to wait six months and at my last review earlier this month, we agreed to review the situation in 12 months unless my condition deteriorates. This suits me fine because it keeps my options open and removes the concern of being discharged.

As you know, I am aware and totally respect your views about medical intervention (July is getting closer 😉). All I was doing was attempting to make Jetcat aware of the possible consequences of cancelling the ablation. Telephone appointments are sometimes more difficult to manage so in my opinion, it’s best to be prepared.

Hopefully you are still flying out to Kansas next month! (I think it was Kansas)......take care

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to FlapJack

Cheers flapjack,👍 I think you’ve got a good point regarding how our health care systems work over here.👍

FlapJack profile image
FlapJack in reply to Jetcat

I was lucky enough to meet Bambi in New York in 2019....once seen, never forgotten, a lovely lady!!

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to FlapJack

👍👍

Bambi65 profile image
Bambi65 in reply to FlapJack

You are way to sweet. I must raise your retainer if you keep saying these good things about me.... LOL

FlapJack profile image
FlapJack in reply to Bambi65

Didn’t mean it, I think you’re ‘orrible really 😉😂😉 Kansas is only 800 miles from Houston so I wasn’t far out 😂 and our medical system generally works Ok but it does vary around the country and Covid hasn’t helped. I like a forceful woman, that’s why a married one but compared to you, she’s a pussy cat 😂😂😂😂😂

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to FlapJack

I bet nobody messes with bambi. She sounds great.👍

Bambi65 profile image
Bambi65 in reply to FlapJack

Ii had no idea that your medical system was that constricting, and without choices. That's dreadful to me. As you know, Ive gone through 4 EP's in 3 years due to their inability/refusal to allow me to make my decisions for my body when it conflicts with their suggestion, recommendation. They take it personally. My current EP is awesome.

Is it possible that Jetcat can suggest postponing it for "family reasons" just to stall for time? Since he has QOL, and not much reasoning to do such a drastic procedure that may or may not help, and may or may not make things even worse. But if he informs the EP of his supplements and the EP gets pissy about it, can he actually refuse to treat or this???? I just can wrap my head around this.

And yes, July is way to near. It is Houston, Texas. and I still have 32 days that I can cancel everything. I'm already down 20.2 pounds in 6 weeks, so needless to say I'm stressed, and terrified 24/7. On the other hand, here, I have that choice, without any repercussions.

baba profile image
baba in reply to FlapJack

"if he categorically refuses to go ahead with the ablation then there is a possibility that he will be discharged and that could have serious consequences for him."

The doctor /EP can only advise him to have an ablation. It is not his place to give ultimatums. The days when you did as you were told by doctors is well and truly past.

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to baba

Iv been thinking.!!!😳😂 when my EP gives me my phone appointment I’m going to tell him that I started the magnesium and multi vits out of desperation of been unable to get a appointment/ examined due to the covid situation we were in. Which is the truth. But how much it has helped me since starting the magnesium and multi vits along with the 3 PVI ablations he and his team carried out so where do we go from here.?

baba profile image
baba in reply to Jetcat

Good luck with whatever YOU decide, your decision.

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to baba

Thanks baba.👍

Diver2 profile image
Diver2 in reply to Jetcat

If your EP is giving you ultimatums.....GET A NEW EP..... He is not GOD his is a doctor. A doctor who is not explaining a medical issue to you. I had an EP who tried to force me to take amiorderone . Even tho my mother had just passed away from Cystic fibrosis which she developed from taking amiorderone!.. I spoke to my GP because I was so upset and my GP told me to get a new EP. Best decision I have ever made! I not only have had less Afib/Flutter incidents, but the medications that turned out to work best , for me were the old tried and true medications.Listen to your intuition. When you leave the doctor's office you should feel god about the plan of action, not feel like you are being bullied into doing it his/her way.

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to Diver2

Good point. That’s good advice diver2. Thankyou very much.

FlapJack profile image
FlapJack in reply to baba

Totally agree, but I think you are taking my comment out of context, and Jetcat seems happy with my reply.

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to FlapJack

I am mate. and I think it’s brilliant we can all have a talk and share our views things.👍

baba profile image
baba in reply to FlapJack

I don't think anyone should feel pressured to have a medical intervention unless they are totally happy to have it. Threat of discharge should not be a factor.

FlapJack profile image
FlapJack in reply to baba

Agree, not sure why you need to push on an open door. Jetcat is concerned as to how his EP might react to a number issues such as using a supplement which the EP has already poo pooed and how the EP might react if he says he does not want to proceed with a 4th ablation scheduled imminently and all this is to be discussed on a telephone appointment which for some, is not easy anyway. All I have suggested is that as much as possible, he needs to be prepared for every eventuality. It may be unlikely, but if he (categorically) says that he does not want to proceed with the ablation, the EP may say “well ablations are what I do and if you don’t want one then I might as well discharge you as there is nothing more I can do for you” especially as this might look good on his results. Using my personal experience, I have suggested Jetcat prepares to seek a postponement and agrees a new review date should it be necessary and he seems happy with that advice.

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to FlapJack

that’s one of the bits I’m actually concerned about flapjack. Him just saying I’m discharged.! I suppose I’m just guna have to wait and see what he says.? 😳

FlapJack profile image
FlapJack in reply to Jetcat

When he asks how you are feeling tell him the truth and say that at the moment, the ectopics have significantly reduced and that according to your wrist monitor, so has the frequency of your AF episodes. Then say that whilst the current improvement is encouraging, YOU ARE VERY MUCH AWARE THE SITUATION COULD CHANGE AT ANY TIME therefore you would prefer to hold off having the ablation now but to have the situation reviewed in 6 or 12 months time and would it be OK if you contacted his secretary should the situation changes before then.

That’s exactly what I did and my EP agreed. Hope it works for you, please let us know how you get on. Best of luck......

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to FlapJack

That sounds the best thing for me to do. I will do that when he calls me in next 2 weeks. I now have a plan.👍 thankyou flapjack for your help. I do feel better now.👍

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to Bambi65

Thankyou bambi, some good points there.👍

Bambi65 profile image
Bambi65 in reply to Jetcat

We here, (state side), and especially a strong, independent, farm raised women, raised by brothers, with a no BS tolerance, and pretty much have a highly developed total dis-trust for the medical community, based on experience..... Lets just say women like me have larger testicales than many males, and do not have any problem speaking up for themselves. My husband, a surgeon, is a great, patient, and loving man. I know.. the irony of it all....

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to Bambi65

I wouldn’t want to get on wrong side of you bambi.👍 but what you say is rite.x

Bambi65 profile image
Bambi65 in reply to Jetcat

Im really as gently and a kitten, and always open for laughter and 2 way communication ...... unless... How does my husband puts it ..The fiery gates of hell open up as she heads directly to the offender, whereas Satan himself is hiding in a corner in the fetal position. When I pounce (mostly verbally) on the insensitive, ignorant, asswipes, there is no doubt they have a clearer understanding of my boundaries. Takes a whole lot to get me to that point. LOL

lovetogarden profile image
lovetogarden in reply to Bambi65

lol! I love feisty! And feisty is what women in particular need in dealing w many in the cardiology biz. (Just my humble opinion…. ) I’m on my 3rd EP, the first two just didn’t listen to me, this 3rd one is learning. 😂

Bambi65 profile image
Bambi65 in reply to lovetogarden

That's the trick... If you can get them to listen to what you are saying, and them not taking it person, ya got a winner. I pay them to be my consultants not anything more. Give me your suggestions, back it up with data, and I will make the final decision.

Diver2 profile image
Diver2 in reply to lovetogarden

Good for you!

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to Bambi65

Love it.😂👍👍

"I’m going to tell him what Iv done and hope he’s ok with it.??"

Tough if he is not ok with it, it is your body and if it's helped your problem he should be pleased for you.

"The only time I know Iv had any afib is when I check my wrist monitor and there maybe a high spike in heart rate for no longer than a hour sometimes only five minutes".

If you are mostly asymptomatic now why would you have another ablation? Totally your choice of course.

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to baba

You’ve got a good point there baba I didn’t think of it like that.?👍

Hi Jetcat. I have had 3 ablations and I still get af lasting up to 36 hrs. I had a telephone consultation with my cardiologist and we agreed not to go for a forth but have an Av node ablation. If I had symptoms like yours I would not go any further . I would stay right there and manage my symptoms as you have. I have tried to find the answer for my af and sometimes there is no other way than to go forward. It sounds like you are doing ok as you are. It's your decision but you don't have to rush into anything. It's your heart not the Ep's. Keep well

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to Adalaide2020

Thankyou adalaide, this is what I need. Some good advice and I really appreciate this.👍x

I had my first ablation both RF and Cryo in 2018 and mostly it’s been pretty plain sailing after that, but I do get runs of ectopics and SVT especially when walking fast and uphill or carrying heavy things. The EP suggested a second ablation and like you I’ve been on the waiting list a year, but this is more for my comfort but I’m inclined to go for it as I think it will further increase my QOL. They said this second will be more in depth and they have a good look about in there to really make sure they get all the naughty bits.

Thankyou mate. Let me know how it goes.👍

Sometimes I find situations of not knowing what to do for the best stressful, with me ectopics can be worse when I am worrying. If it helps I have a few thought to share. First tell the Ep what you have taken and why and exactly what you are concerned about re delaying ablation. He might suggest monitoring with the 2 week Zito ECG. From experience after my ablation I know the 3 month recovery is a lot longer. After 4 months I had runs of ectopics that were getting too much for me, after a few weeks they stopped, the only different thing I did was drink more water, which could be a coincidence or not. Good luck hope all goes well for you

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to Foxglo

Thank you foxglo.👍

My EP from the Cleveland Clinic (one of the best facilities in the USA for afib), actually prescribed magnesium for me years ago, actually wrote on a piece of paper the type he wanted me to take. Cannot image why your would be against this?! The experience level of your EP is crucial when considering ablations BTW. Don't be afraid to ask how many afib ablations he's done...it matters BIG time.

Jetcat profile image
Jetcat in reply to sdweller

Yes I find it strange but more surprising that he seems dead against it too. I could understand it if I had any condition that made magnesium dangerous to take but Iv no other health issues going on. Not at present anyway but as time goes on I’m sure I’ll get some.?😢

You may also like...