Good morning,
Does anyone know if there have been any reports of the current spring covid vac affecting afib or arythimas [sorry spelling appalling]
Many thanks
arythmia and spring covid vac - Atrial Fibrillati...
arythmia and spring covid vac
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Renault4
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Hubby has AF and had his jab last Sunday with no affects whatsoever. He had Pfizer. Hope all goes well for you.
Thank you so much for your reply. I did have my spring vac a week or so ago, not sure what brand but have had a few episodes of arythmia and just wondered if there might be a connection!
Quite a lot of people I know have had the spring vaccine and had more arrythmias. I’ve just got over having reactions to the last one so no more for me!
Me too CD! I haven't felt quite right since my second booster! I'll take my chances with covid if necessary. I wish you well, Tom
Same here CDreamer
Thank you again for your reply.I too am a great believer in vaccines and had no adverse reactions to the previous ones but just wondered if the current intermittent spate of arrythimas might be a reaction. I will resume exercising shortly hopefully but will continue with the breathing techniques i have learned from this forum.
It may well be. If you get more arrhythmias if you have flu or another viral illness, it’s not surprising that the vaccine could provoke the same response. Your immune system has been provoked into building an inflammatory response and that may well irritate your heart into firing off at random. My arrhythmias started with a nasty viral illness in the pre-Covid era so it doesn’t have to be the vaccine, it could be any other virus, or more accurately, it’s how your immune system responds to an invading pathogen. It’s always a risk/benefit decision.
Hey, may I know how your arrhythmias started? You write that it started with some virus. Maybe it's with me as well. I don't know for sure. I have heart palpitations and I've been struggling with it for years. I've tried various pills, but nothing particularly helped. I'm currently on bisoprolol and Flecainide. I don't know what to do anymore.
I had a holiday bug last September in Menorca, sickness and diarrhoea, a few days before coming back to UK, pulse 140, I stayed that way till we got home thinking it would go down, any had to call ambulance, doc in a and E said Atrial Flutter, and referred me to cardiology, so on list 4 Ablation, but they said it could be months, so I paid on credit card to see cardiologist, he put me at ease and said amount May it could happen, so having Ablation 10th May, he did say any infection can cause blood pressure, AF symptoms and fast pulse,, good luck
I wonder if vaccines per se despite their different methodology of action, could have a possible psychosomatic effect that causes arrythmias. We know stress can be a trigger, and some of us get a bit jittery about needles. I suffer from anxiety and had my pneumococcal booster last year and had short bouts of irregular pulse for a couple of weeks after, same occurred when I had my annual 'flu a month ago (I'm in the South Hemisphere). I'm not a scientist so I have no informed basis for my hypothesis, but it seems to be what happens to me !!!!!!!!
'Psychosomatic effect' Isn't that the medical term for 'we have no idea'? 😀
This is more accurately referred to as the “nocebo” effect where someone expects symptoms after consuming a food they believe themselves to be “allergic” to (when they are not) or expects an adverse reaction to a medicine when they’ve actually been given an inert sugar pill.
It’s impossible to say. There’s the perception of symptoms feeling worse when it’s all part of how symptoms fluctuate from day to day or over the course of weeks or months. In reality, if everything was accurately measured for a period of weeks, there may be no overall change in symptoms but there will be bad episodes and episodes of relative calm.
I never believe it’s just one thing that makes symptoms worse but a combination of factors.
Many thanks Autumn-Leaves that's very helpful if it is as a re3sult of the vaccine hopefully it will be a transient result as you say risk/benefit and as I had and have a fear of getting covid I have taken what I hope will be a beneficial decision!
Yes, my heart rate took off after every covid vaccine 2 x AZ and one Pfizer. It made me decide that I wouldn't have any more.
Jean
I've had 3 jabs and reacted to all of them but my cardiologist said I was imagining it so take your pick
My super-fit son, who’s in his 30s, passed out in the clinic after his first jab and suffered episodes of AF for weeks afterwards .
Ouch. My EP cardiologist agreed there could be a link re the booster and whatever set off my Afib for the first time. But he said it was a rare event compared with the impact of covid on the heart and suggested that with such a massive vaccine programme there was bound to be shrapnel. So there you go, been hit by shrapnel!
I had a really frightening reaction to the first vaccine (AZ), so declined having any more. Have had covid itself, but then again so did my partner who was fully vaccinated.
Having been sick with Covid is the best 'vaccination'. You'll both will be okay for a long time.
I'm meant to have the booster now but too scared
Only around 5 instances of atrial fibrillation per million doses have been recorded in the US, with around 300 cases of AF reported in total in the UK with the Pfizer vaccine. These are minute numbers given the number of doses administered.
Given the risk of damage to the heart and immune system following covid-19 itself, and given the current state of the health service if you should need hospitalisation for any cause, then, if you are in a high risk category, it seems very sensible to me to follow the best advice given with the best intentions, and have the vaccine.
Steve
Agree Steve. As my EP explained, with such a massive vaccine programme there's bound to be shrapnel. But the numbers are tiny compared to the number of people theyre seeing impacted by covid. I still don't like it though, being shrapnel. And I'm not sure I'll make the logical choice if and when I'm offered another booster.
Our elderly friends’ daughter has kidney failure from covid she had last March and the booster vaccine she then had in October did seem to make it much worse, (although her specialist isn’t convinced), so they’ve decided against the booster for what are, I suppose, emotional reasons. They’ve both had covid themselves last Christmas, too, so that’s another reason they think it’s too soon to have the booster.
I’m not sure what I would do but would almost certainly have it. My wife, Wendy, certainly would. I’m not being offered it as I’m a mere youngster, though, at 69! I most certainly wouldn’t want covid again, though. Our two neighbours in their seventies but healthy and active have only just got over theirs from about six weeks ago and were thoroughly shocked and frightened by just how badly it affected them. It’s far from a simple illness. My brother and his family continue to refuse all covid vaccines though, sure that it’s a social engineering experiment and far more dangerous than the illness ever could be! Oh my.
Steve
Sorry to hear about your friend's daughter. We have neighbours on our allotment who've had covid and been surprised at how long the fatigue has lasted. I guess we all hope we'll be one of the people whom covid hardly touches, a bit like Afib!
It's a sad state where people feel so distrustful of science they don't recognise how the misinformation they follow is a form of social engineering in itself!
Having said this, I shall never again agree to having both flu vaccine and covid booster jab at the same time!
Have your refusenik family had covid?
He seems to be dwelling in a parallel universe at times. Yes he, his wife and one daughter had covid in January 2022. His sense of taste was disturbed for months and, we only learned today, it’s now looking possible that his wife might have developed some lung issues from it - but that’s being investigated and no one is sure of the cause as she smoked when young.
This virus can certainly be nasty. Its ability to bind to ACE2 and disturb the immune response is looking deeply worrying. Another friend, on warfarin for AF and who had covid when we did at Christmas, has only just begun to see his INR levels stabilising and had to go on heparin for a while.
Steve
Thank you everyone who very kindly replied to my query. Its really reasurring to be able to discuss this with others.
My decade of paroxymal AFib changed into permanent Afib 5 days after my 6th covid jab. So am I now locked into being breathless and weak for the rest of my 84years? I have tried riding my trike to effect cardioversion, but it hasn't worked. Where do I find those breathing techniques? Due to an a chance conversation with my GP at the time I was also on 1.25 mg bisopoprolol daily for the first time ever, and I was thinking that might have had something to do with the Afib not reverting after a maximum of 3 days which was the well established pattern. By the way, I did have a piece of shrapnel in 1944 but I swapped it for a German bayonet with a school chum.
I wonder if you have seen a specialist EP cardiologist and considered a CV, or change of meds? I'm 70 and considered "young" by my cardio team - age these days tends to relate to underlying state of health rather than years. My mum in law had various medical procedures through her 90s and lived to 100. Don't give up!
Hi
6th COVID JAB!
I'm NZ and the 5th jab with Omnicron part in it offered from April 1st.
6th? Perhaps you are keeping up to the gaps! Cause I had a gap from Dec 22 to now May 2023.
cheers JOY. 74. (NZ)
I got shingles after the Pfizer Bivalent vaccine so it's a no for me at present. Apparently it's a known response. Very glad we had the vaccines earlier on however.
I live in a retirement village and we have been offered the vaccine here, on site, next week. However we won’t know ‘til the day which vaccine. We have had Pfizer throughout and are reluctant to change So it really depends which. Neither myself or partner have had any adverse reactions thus far but I am reluctant to push the boat too far.
We have ours coming up in a few weeks and hope it will be ok though we both had covid despite the jabs, in late Jan, early Feb, - very mild without a temperature but did have an AF episode around the time I must have been infected and later on though it was around the time I was given a different brand of Flecainide and now back on the Accord one that keeps heart behaving! We are all different and hope it works out ok for you (and us!)
Hi
I'm in NZ so I had another Pizfer strain injection. 5th Omnicron.
No effect on AF but I have 1/2 banana before and after with a cup of water.
Diagnosed with Rapid persistent AF H/Rate but since given CCB Calcium Channel Blocker NOW Controlled.
cheri jOY. 74. (NZ)
Hi
If scared have an antibiotic before and have 3 doses after. It will prevent ant inflammation around the heart.
cheri jOY
Wow! Please can you tell me where you got this info, looks interesting...
Hi
I self manage my health.
Thinking back probably on every vac day I was on antibiotics,
It has now pointed to an infected tooth which has now been extracted. And prior to that I was fighting Johnson and Johnson mesh internal damage which was removed March 2022.
I am an ex nurse. I had a course of amozil as I stopped a course when my infected tooth's pain after a filling was not settling. I was given Amozil and clav which did settle but when it brioe it was removed.
It is relevant to prevent the heart inflammation. If you can prevent urine infections you can prevent anything.
I told the nurse injecting me. On the 3rd jab I had a problem with jab going to a nerve instead of muscle. (I have a plate and screws in my left shoulder and right shoulder waiting for op with tears). It surfaced with a huge round red sore and itchy circle. I had to be given antibiotics then.
The treatment for heart inflammation are antibiotics.
cheri JOY. 74. (NZ)
I don’t think I would take take antibiotics if there’s no infection going on, for the purpose of preventing inflammation. I’m wary of antibiotics because they deplete the gut microbiome and that has implications for the progression of many chronic conditions. I’m also penicillin allergic so my choice of antibiotic is limited and there are also concerns about anti microbial resistance. I’d like the ones I can take safely to work if/when they are prescribed to treat an infection. So I think I’ll pass on that idea for now.
However… if reducing inflammation is the purpose, then why not take anti inflammatory drugs instead of antibiotics? Would that not be the more logical approach? I know that inflammation has an important role to play in the immune system’s response to infection or injury, and some immunologists are now questioning whether people should be taking medication to lower temperature or alleviate flu-like aches when they have a viral illness, because it slows down or hampers the immune response which will likely resolve during the next phase when the body switches off the inflammatory response. But then again, a vaccine isn’t the same thing as an infection so I don’t know if the same caveats apply. It’s an interesting question though.
Hi
You are forgetting the fact we are AFers and most of us are on anti-coagulants!
You are not the person scared that a vaccine could potentially case inflammation around the heart so my advice was just that.
I am aware the COVID itself can cause inflammation.
We are all in a state for making decisions.
Life is full of decision-making.
For your interest the Johnson & Johnson Mesh was causing inflammation in me from 2003 when it was inserted inappropriately.
Just like a risk from taking anti-coagulants which may be causing internal bleeding without you knowing.
cheri JOY. 74. (NZ)
We all have to weigh up our pros and cons. In your case antibiotics may well be the right prescription but does it have the potential to do more harm than good when it’s not necessary in another individual? Anti microbial resistance is becoming a very serious problem and we’re all going to be impacted by it.
As for the anti inflammatory drugs, that’s more of a theoretical question, not actually a suggestion that people on anti coagulants should glug down NSAIDS! Even people who are not on AC medication can have stomach bleeds etc.
Sorry to read you have been a mesh victim. That was truly a horror story.
Hi
Ultimately I personally feel that she is better to have the jab.
Then if she is 'scared' about symptoms my suggestion is sufficient.
Your stance on antibiotics is a worldwide issue. It is our food if we dont
eat organic food e.g eggs and meat etc. I do.
It is not a problem if used as a 4 dose time.
Check it out.
Yes I am a victim and as the arms have been left still are.
In NZ the mesh is still being used for abdominal closing by surgeons not trained to use it. Its being talked about now. The surgeon who put it in is banned from using it amongst all surgeons in the Northland area.
ACC stops us from suing the surgeon, our DHB or taking the claim to Johnson & Johnson USA as they are paying out millions around the world.
A friend of mine under my surgeon has been told that she is so badly damaged she will need more training to help her. And this friend has told me that her husband of 34 years has walked out on her earlier in this year.
NZ Metsafe had reassurance from Canada and Australia that the kits were a miracle. But USA J&J lied about the research in progress and what happened to the sheep being used as guinea pigs.
So unfortunate.
cheri JOY. 74. (NZ)
I changed to the 110mg x 2 a day PRADAXA. My friend aged 82 left off taking it for 4 days and she experienced a mild stroke. She has MS and has antibiotics for life as the 15 year old pig's valve is infected and the valve replaced but surgeons in Auckland cannot remove it. (not another pig's valve this time)
That all sounds horrific. I’ve seen it on the news and heard the women who were dismissed for years but were finally acknowledged. It’s an absolute horror story. I’m sad to learn that you too have suffered, and your poor friend. I wish you both well.
Hi
ACC requires proof of damage before accepting to pay for an operation.
In 2019 they could have prevented as the 3D scan was not clear. In 2021 the surgeon could see but I had another 3D scan.
The original surgeon said it wouldn't travel any more like others.
Probably the surprise that I couldn't get it out publicly either in 2019 with all the proof contributed to my stroke within 6 weeks of this notification.
Not many of us (removal) as my surgeon is tops, experienced and she works privately too.
Will we get any compensation? ACC gave me a lump sum request form! I have not filled this in. I have no apology from them.
I feel lucky as many of the removal operations have been disasters too.
Inflammation can cause cancer. Then my thyroid cancer caused AF. Its such a circle of disease and disability.
I complained about an acidic tummy from 4 years. You know Milk of Magnesium well that was my med then. Finally at 50 with acute symptoms and I told surgeon my grandfather had his out. Operated and surgeon found my gall bladder had completely disintegrated!
Be your own advocate and fight I reckon. In NZ we have ManageMyHealth.
cheri JOY. 74. (NZ)
I had the Sanofi jab a week ago. Some Flu like symptoms for a few days, and some AFIB but pretty much OK. Sanofi jab seems worse (more after effects than the Pfizer one I have had previously
My two friends in their 80s had theirs last Saturday; husband has multiple heart problems. It had no effect on his heart but they have both been so utterly tired out all week they haven't been able to do anything. It was apparently a new version specifically for over 80s they were told. Began with an S.
When I went for my last covid jab Oct 22, I was in Afib and had been for a week, 2 days after jab my Afib stopped and touch wood hasn't come back.
Heart issues have definitely become statistically relevant in the COVID vaccine studies. It's not a huge percentage but has still affected enough people to be mentioned. Reading the studies, it appears the heart issues reported (arrhythmias, wall enlargement, etc ) are very similar to ones reported by people contracting COVID. Also was statistically noticable that the vaccine heart issues affected younger people a bit more than older. It's been a while since I read it, but those are elements I remembered. I was reading up on it once I came up on booster time and deciding whether I wanted to get it. I had very occasional paroxysmal AF for a couple years before COVID (I didn't even know what AF was at the time..just that I had weird heart days every few months). So two weeks after I got my second dose of COVID vaccine, so basically right when I would have been at my full vaccination level, I went into persistent AFib...was in it for 6 weeks and finally checked into the hospital and 4 days later had cardiversion...and thus started my journey down this AFib treatment road. Did the vaccine cause Afib out of nowhere? Seems like I was already having bouts here and there...but circumstantial evidence would say it sent me into persistent. At that time there wasn't the study published that talked about rhythm issues being a potential side effect in a small percentage of folk. But I would have had the vaccine anyway. Eventually I would even get the booster because I wanted to spend time with my elderly father and other higher risk folk I knew .. my choice.
Not sure but after my last booster in November 2022 triggering a very nasty attack of afib lasting over 30 hours, I have decided not to have the spring booster
Hi
I've just read that air pollution and af go together!
But we all know mine was caused by thyroid cancer.
I live up higher that a beach bay 4 hours up from Auckland NZ on the east coast.
But my surgeon asked if I had worked in radiography as a nurse. Answer no.
But I had had an Xray by a Chiropractor who used her old equipment and I had to open my mouth!
I said check it out as it was 4 years prior.
cheri JOY. 74. (NZ)
AF is certainly multi factorial and what triggers an episode of AF will not be the same reason that we became susceptible to developing AF in the first place. I see a lot of people wanting very simplistic explanations when it’s likely to be more than just one thing. I feel certain that air pollution plays a role in many chronic diseases. I think the statistics are supporting that now. We probably all have a genetic vulnerability. It does become more common with age. I’m an iron overloader, and we’re statistically a lot more likely to have arrhythmias, whether that’s due to iron deposits in the heart of oxidative stress in the blood vessels. I’m sure that if people consume alcohol and cocaine in their youth it probably puts them at risk, but it can also affect us goody-goodies too, we all have different risk factors. Covid infection certainly predisposes people to developing AF and statistically those people have a higher mortality risk than people who already had AF before they were infected with Covid. I don’t think there’s ever one cause, there are probably many precipitating factors and blaming one thing is probably over simplifying something far more complicated.
My reaction was akin to a full-on 24h flu with a slightly raised temperature and an increased HR, plus all the aching and shivering that goes with flu. And then I woke up the next day feeling perfectly fine. I know that it’s my immune system kicking back against what it detects as a being an invasion from a virus. I was tested for antibodies after vaccination and I mounted a robust response with a very high level of antibodies. For me, that’s the whole purpose.
The downside of making any kind of immune response is that it is inflammatory and puts a stress on the body. Infection does the same, which probably explains why my arrhythmias began with a respiratory infection which made me very ill for a very long time, and left me with other problems including neuropathies and “atypical facial pain” ie problems with the trigemimal nerve. The neuropathies slowly improved over the course of a few years but the arrhythmias didn’t and eventually AF appeared. I don’t take the issue of vaccines lightly. We can’t predict how our bodies will respond. I expected to spend a day in bed after the autumn/winter booster and sure enough I a needed to. My husband had no reaction whatsoever. He had his vaccine in the morning, had a very normal day and went to work the following day as usual. Not even any pain at the injection site. So we’re all different and unique. There are always risks with any treatment or procedure but often the “do nothing” option carries a risk too. No matter the decision there’s never a zero risk.
There are too many reported issues to interest me in a mRNA jab.
I had the sanofi vaccine on last Monday morning, VidPrevtyn Beta.Usual sore arm and felt a bit "off it" for a couple of days ( but I often do) Had run of tachy for about 3 mins last Thursday but about every 4-6 weeks this does happen so couldn't say it was vaccs.
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