Which eating plan should you adopt? The Liver Diet, The Atkins, The Low Carb high Fat, The FODMAP?? Do any of them work?
This question has bugged me for the last 40 years so I bit the bullet and signed up to the Zoe App and testing regime and although I am still waiting for results, quite interesting what I have already learned.
The idea of the programme is that as we all react very differently to all foods, even identical twins, and our bodies’ digest and absorb at different rates depending upon what bugs we have in our gut biome, how our biology processes the food, how much we exercise, when we eat as well as what we eat and how long we starve between meals.
This is what I’ve learned about me:-
My blood sugar levels stay pretty constant and well within normal range, mostly between 5-6 most of the day even when I eat high carbs rich in sugar - yeah! Bring on the cake again! I had one low reading 3.9 and one high of 6.9 and believe I now know which fruit triggered that episode but need to experiment a bit more as I could have been quantity.
I strongly suspect that my body cannot clear fat from the bloodstream as quickly as it should and therefore I need to be more careful with fats. I haven’t had those result back yet but purely by coincidence, I had my blood draw with my new surgery on the day of the prescribed foods and my triglyceride level was elevated at 3.2 - but ratios good however, the usual Statin conversation ensued
My best controlled days were when I was only eating the prescribed food which comes with the pack ie: Muffins and I defy anyone to eat 3 of them within the prescribed 15 mins for breakfast! Which was a bit of a surprise - but I learn as I progress through the course why that might be.
So what I now do is ensure I eat protein and fat before or alongside carbs so the banana now goes after the eggs for breakfast for example. I always like my fruit first thing in the morning.
A brisk walk after eating helps control sugar spikes and dips.
I am still waiting on the more interesting test results ie: gut biome but as I’ve had those tests before, I will be interested in the difference as so much more has been learned since I did that test 5 years ago.
Bloods will show how well I clear fat and therefor if the High Fat, Low Carb plan I had more or less been following was sensible.
Outcome - lost 3lbs in 2 weeks following the programme and had some fun experimenting with foods I’d avoided for a l o n g time such as Coffee and Walnut cake with butter icing! Occasional treats are allowed!
Enjoy the tennis and the weather which here is a steady 22-24C and wall to wall sun.
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CDreamer
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I wouldn’t say onerous but you need to follow the daily routines for best results. You are supplied with a continuous glucose monitor so Day 1 is just applying that to your arm and learning how to use it with App - it’s really simple and stays on for continuous readings for 14 days. Then Days 2&3 are more time requirements as it’s a matter of eating specially prepared muffins for 3 meals, fasting for at least 3 hours following & taking your glucose readings. Following days you take poo sample & pin prick blood on special test & post back within 24 hours. After that it’s following the daily lessons - optional - and experimenting with different food combinations & exercise. It’s all a bit American with the usual - WOW & Good job! Which is irritating to us stiff upper lip types & you do get help through a Chat function.
It’s not as expensive as going through the whole process of testing & seeing a Nutritionist which worked out at about £1300 for similar testing & feedback!
I’ll reserve judgement on recommendation until I get the full results back but quite impressed so far & all info is fed back to Imperial for their research on personalised nutritional requirements - if you opt into that.
This is really interesting. I thought I’d signed up to it but haven’t heard anything so maybe I didn’t do it properly. Now I know what’s involved perhaps I’d better leave it till I get a run of days when I’m not looking after grandchildren (if that happens!) I’ve been following a largely plant based diet but I do still have chicken and salmon. There seems to be a lot of conflicting advice as to whether that’s ok or not!
No I didn’t get a response but was on the waiting list for 6 months - till I got an invitation through a friend to buck the waiting list. They are rolling it out very slowly & carefully so they aren’t overwhelmed.
They should get in touch to let you know where you are on rhe waiting list. They have with me. Or find the original email of acknowledgement and chase them
This sounds so interesting .. thanks CDreamer! I’m going to go look for the app..
I have been eating “very well” (no cholesterol mostly vegan etc) for several weeks .. and am not losing .. thinking this may be why.
I tend to overdo it n carbs and snack on low fat popcorn or ice milk bars (all natural of course) - and those can add up.
I’m checking out this app.., also I have been reading about Lumen.. have you read about it?
I’m considering it.
I only need to lose about 10 lbs . But I’m very active these days with summer.. so thinking I’m just eating too much overall.
Also I recently started taking Ozempic .. have you heard of it?
Many people who are insulin resistant or pre diabetic have great results with it.
For most people, including myself, it reduces appetite. It’s only been a few days but I’m hoping it helps lower my cholesterol…along with my vegan focused (some chicken and fish) diet.
That sounds fascinating CD, thank you for sharing. I certainly think that there is no “ one size fits all” when it comes to diet plans and establishing how each individual metabolises fats, sugars etc. is the way to go in the future. I look forward to hearing more about your results. Pleased that cake still features and doesn’t cause your blood sugar to go into overdrive👍😀
Oh I'm so envious! I'm on the waiting list to get started. With my defective vagus and subclinical hypothyroidism I'm anxious to know which foods work well for me. My cholesterol also tends to be high but I'm.sure it's poor absorption. When I did the Blue Poop test last year it took 72 hours for anything blue to make an appearance! And a further 24 hours before it left my system. Drink more water they told me. Wasn't constipated though, had been moving bowels regularly - just processing food from.days before. TMI 😉
I find it easy to follow a low carb, medium fat (Keto) way of eating. I have lost over 60lbs in about 20 months and reduced my BMI by 8, reduced my blood pressure and cholesterol. I cut out all added sugars, gluten, bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, ultra refined oils.I replaced them with green vegetables, eggs, butter, olive oil, ghee, coconut oil, cheeses and meats.
Well done but this is not a diet and not the point. It’s about knowing which foods your body processes well so that you receive the nourishment it requires. There was a good blog recently by the team on the Keto diet on how it can impact gut health - which therefore impacts immune response - you may find it an interesting read:-
True - because it is a study itself and there is so much to learn yet and because it’s outside of medical research, these studies are extremely difficult to get funding. Zoe team is led by Prof Tim Spectre who is working with Kings & Imperial so good provenance. Most of gut research is done by Nutritional Organisations to sell supplements so to get impartial information without self interested parties is extremely difficult.
I listen to Dr Gundry podcasts and he has a new book coming out called unlocking the Keto code. Does anyone else listen to him? He is a heart surgeon but I havn’t heard him talk about AF but I haven’t listened to him that long either.
Low carb and low cholesterol is difficult.After a time on low carb I begin to not feel well.. I blame it for my high cholesterol to be honest as carbs creep in. Then next thing you know you’re getting too much fat AND carbs… this is after a long period of low carbing..
Wow CDreamer you are such a fount of knowledge. I love this site and have learned so much. I don't think I'd go through with the test because I have so many allergies and intolerances and am already very underweight but it is good to know there are such helpful things out there and I find your posts are very helpful
If someone in the UK has been waiting - I have 1 more referral I can use to get to fast track the waiting list. PM me with your e-mail address as I have to make the referral through the App.
Good to hear you are getting …in the motor vehicle parlance…the full “under the hood” checkup.For a less expensive experience, may I suggest downloading a free app called MyFitnessPal …the title is that it’s a “calorie counter” but it is way more than that. It breaks down everything you put in your mouth into macronutrients, presents each food value and percent of fats, sugars, fibres etc, and cross references with your height weight age etc.
the bloodwork should be free by asking your GP…well it is here in “the colonies”
BTW, a quick note about plans, methods, diets and foods, everyone drops about 12-20lbs in short order at the beginning…after that, is when it gets tricky.
No matter what, you have to burn more calories than what you take in.
The initial quick loss is what gets people hooked on many diets and plans.
I have struggled with my weight since developing hypothyroidism even after optimising my thyroid meds, vits minerals. My weight was always constant before. The best combination for me is low carb (Peatfield said this too) and gluten free. Its not a diet but a way of being. Its easy to follow and importantly if I'm out easy to eat out too. Low carbohydrate means you do eat carbohydrates but less....focusing more on veg for them with a small amount of grain cards once or twice per week. Avoiding added sugar. It does work - my problem is I have a sweet tooth! Lol....
How does the Zoe Food App help you with different health conditions to manage your food intake? I personally wouldn't like the oh well done nonsense or anything that makes me feel I'm doing something special as for me it woild then feel like a programme and in the end I will drop it.
Yes the WOW and well done bugs me too but I put up with it for the info and I have learned a bit more about how I personally process food. Still waiting for the full results so I’ll post when they are in but basically this is not a diet or advice but testing by poo sample, blood sample and continuous monitoring of glucose levels. I’ve done the low carb eating plan - I thought it was helping but have discovered actually I can’t clear fat from my blood system well and carbs do not give me glucose spikes - a little dip a few hours after but generally my glucose levels remained well within good tolerances no matter what I ate.
The recommendations as to which foods best suit my unique biology are yet to come so I’ll keep you informed. This is about testing, not an eating plan. What I’ve found in doing the experimentation is that eating some fat with protein before my carbs works for me and then exercising (brisk walk) after eating helps. My weight is stuck at the moment and I could do with losing 10ths+. Many plans advise the opposite ie: fruit, carbs before protein/fat.
It’s the gut microbiome which is important, as well as how we respond to fat and glucose as we all have unique microbial in our guts which is really the determining factor on how we respond.
I wish Drs would get on the band wagon with this. They learn very little about nutrition in med school. Such a shame. When it's so important how our bodies are nourished.
Thanks for the information, never heard of it. Is there a way to get more detailed info on the program without filling out the step-by-step detailed questionnaire on the website? Got into it about ten minutes worth and then stopped lol. I have no problem giving them any info they ask AFTER I decide I want to proceed, but for now, just want to know the particulars.
Also, what does the program cost? And do you need an rx from your doctor for the blood glucose meter and blood draw?
I'm currently on high dose PPIs which I'm sure would significantly affect the gut biome testing. So do you think it would make sense to do the program now, or perhaps wait until I wean off the PPIs, which is my intention at some point, if I'm able to?
No there is no way to get more detailed info without signing up for interest. They are collecting information anonymously but I’ve been contributing to the Zoe COVID app in UK since it started and so have a track record with them already. If you are already part of that programme you will get the Blogs for free which are very interesting in themselves. There are certain people with conditions they exclude - I think if you were on certain meds, diverticulitis, cancer, diabetes and the like but they only get into the detail after you express interest.
If you go to YouTube and look up Prof Tim Spectre and look for some of the early videos you will find a lot explaining how he got into this and what his hopes are for personalised medicine through food. His original research was with identical twins. Zoe just had a paper published in Nature. Or follow him on Twitter where he posts updates and latest findings or links to the papers.
Price - £259 or so up front for the testing and then monthly/annual subscription thereafter. The continuous glucose monitor they use is LibraLink which is about £50 on it’s own and you have to have medical supervision to use it. To get extensive gut biome testing circa £150-350 for the test kit and then the expertise to interpret and report circa £120/appointment. Lipid testing - cheapest I’ve seen is NHS £29 - circa £40. The kit includes 3 meals which are muffins which have a measured amount of protein/fat/carbs and you have to test so many hours after eating them.
After that it’s bite size information for you to experiment with certain single foods and then particular combinations and measure and record your findings. I get it’s not for all but I find it fascinating.
Shamed to say I can’t remember the monthly figure and they haven’t taken anything more yet so can’t check my statement - I signed up for 4 months and compared with the costs of seeing a Nutritionist and getting the testing done through them, it seemed very reasonable circa £30/month?
Hi - I too have started Zoe - I got my test results on the 21st August. Currently loving the foods and finding it quite easy to follow the guidelines. How are you getting on?
I looked at doing the ZOE assessment too, but decided against for me as they do warn that the food recommendations may worsen the symptoms of people with IBS. So that rules me out at present. Perhaps in time, more research will enable ZOE to help a wider range of people.
I do know my blood sugar would react badly to the muffins, and likely get me craving sweet food again. There's never been concern about my lipids - don't know if the test on clearing fats would tell me something different? Like you I follow a high fat, lower carb way of eating.
It will be interesting to hear your microbiome results.
This seems very similar to the test I did from a company local here in Seattle called Viome - after which I'm now taking made for me pre/probiotics. I have not completely stuck to their food suggestions yet, but I did eliminate the ones they told me were bad for my unique system, and try to eat more of the ones they said were really good. I've been doing really well for 3 months now, but I've made so many changes I can't tell which ones are truly helping at this point. The test you are talking about sounds a bit more involved and better than this one though.
I know I did really well on a low carb diet many years ago. I also did really well at one point when I was doing "intermittent fasting" in which I didn't eat from 8pm to noon the next day, and would have a green smoothie with chia, various fruit including pineapple, spinach, yogurt, avocado etc for lunch every day, and pretty much whatever I wanted for dinner. I may go back on the intermittent fasting soon, after seeing how well I'm doing with an empty system this weekend. 😂 By far, intermittent fasting helped me lose and keep weight off the most, and it also seemed to have me feeling better overall - way less bloating or other upset.
Pleasingly the blood test from Viome told me my Biological Age is 28. 👍🙃
They also told me I have pepper mottle virus carried in my system, which was so interesting to learn about. They said I should avoid eating bell peppers.. which I haven't listened to - mostly because they didn't say why exactly. Hopefully I can't pass it to my garden peppers🤣
I've been doing IF for the past few weeks. I was on 16/8 but I've now (just today) extended to 20/4 every other day. Today is my first 20 hrs fast.....ten minutes to go and I'm reading this forum to take my mind off my growling stomach
That's a real nuisance for you that you had to reduce your IF hours due to meds. I'm lucky that my meds (for hypothyroidism) are taken on an empty stomach.
But my gall bladder was found to have disintegrated in 2000 so out and I continue to eat a LOW FAT FOOD DIET.
Also have your B12 test done. It is a different test away from full blood test. Try and be between 400-500.
Shoot, 3.6 triglycerin is very high. I got reprimanded on 2.5! I had eaten a pie and a fruit square within an hour prior. 6.5 cholesterol! And I wasnt taking my STATIN 10mg Avorastatin.
Cardiac Specialist said he would like my cholesterol @ 4.
I eat a healthy diet of salmon, 1 egg daily, avocado, oats in water with fresh fruit, fish, meat 99% twice a week, fish 3 times a week, veg with cheese 30% twice a week.
I don't eat cake or cookies regularly.
There is no such diagnosis of PRE DIABETIC. You are either diabetic or NOT.
I have no sugar in tea, coffee and I drink no sugar chocolate drink.
My Dad had to watch sugar he was told when he was 25 and off to WW2 as a mechanic.
Monitor your diet with fat and sugar. I drink lots of water. Take it before a meal and after. I have freh tank water, no chlorine and no floride. I've lived here 32 years by the sea.
cheri JOY. 73. (NZ) Still have my own natural teeth.
According to diabetes.org.uk "Prediabetes means that your blood sugars are higher than usual, but not high enough for you to be diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. It also means that you are at high risk of developing type 2 diabetes. You are unlikely to be experiencing any symptoms with prediabetes.
Prediabetes is also sometimes called borderline diabetes. Higher than normal blood sugars can be detected via blood tests. The medical terms for higher-than-normal blood sugars are:
Impaired Fasting Glucose (IFG)
Impaired Glucose Tolerance (IGT)
Impaired Glucose Regulation (IGR)
Non-diabetic hyperglycaemia"
So it doesn't mean that people will actually progress to diabetes, but is a sign that things aren't metabolically right. We're all different. I have impaired glucose tolerance, and when diagnosed, the practice nurse told me there was no point in having a blood glucose meter, as it would only depress me, I was bound to deteriorate to diabetes! I bought one anyway, and by adopting a fairly low carb diet, 10 years later I'm doing fine. But probably wouldn't be if I adopted the standard plenty of starchy foods recommendations!
Nutritional advice is to drink plenty of advice but not right before a meal as it dilutes stomach acid which will mean you won’t be able to break down protein well. Half a glass sipped during a meal. Is sufficient.
I, like Belle, just disagree with you and my post had absolutely nothing to do with Diabetes.
In UK pre-diabetes is taken very seriously. Thankfully, I’ve never had a problem with blood sugar levels.
I have signed up to Zoe and should have testing pack through in Feb. Just wondering whether you had your final results and how beneficial you have found Zoe programme. Thanks GS
Hi - my results were more or less what I expected & I found the results & the glucose monitoring very useful. Experimenting with the foods whilst wearing the monitor helped me work out how & when to exercise.
The follow up app & meal plans I didn’t get on with at all - too American & I found very uninspiring meal plans as I prefer much more spice in my foods so follow The Doctors’ Kitchen.
For someone who really needs a lot of hand holding maybe it would be helpful?
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Rhythm and Diet/Way of Eating
Definition of ‘processed foods’ - what’s yours?
AF and cake.
