Lichen planus

[Profound15]

I’ve posted before about my mouth soreness and skin itchiness. I was looking at potential treatments which wouldn’t interact with my maintenance doses of flecainide and bisoprolol and this site gave some really helpful answers. However, I had an appointment with my dentist today and she advised that she was of the opinion that I had lichen planus of the mouth. This can be caused by an auto immune reaction apparently. Im pretty convinced that it’s been caused by the three vaccines I’ve had last year but clearly it can’t be proved as it’s too early to determine that.

Does anyone know if you can have lichen planus without a rash on the skin as I’ve been on anti histamines from the GP for the last couple of weeks. They do help in addition to itch cream. The prognosis for lichen is that it should clear up within a couple of years but I wondered if anyone had experience of it please?

The dentist has referred me to the hospital for further tests and possibly a biopsy to determine if it actually is lichen planus. However, it’s with the NHS so it could take 4 or 5 months for that to happen (fingers crossed it’s earlier but I know they’re under pressure), Thanks

[Dawfor]

Hi,I actually developed lichen planus last year but it was all over my body and not my mouth. Luckily it wasn’t itchy and eventually responded to potent steroid creams. The dermatologist actually told me that it is likely the bisoprolol caused it as bet-blockers apparently can. I stopped the bisoprolol straightaway (switched to diltiazem)and although I had a couple of areas develop many months later it has largely gone. I have read that lichen planus of the mouth is a different beast but it may be worthwhile having a discussion about the bisoprolol in case it is contributing.

[Profound15 in reply to Dawfor]

Thanks Dawfor it could be the bisoprolol. However I’ve been on the medication for 15 months and the problem only arose from last December onwards. I’ve read loads that the MRNA vaccine can cause this problem. Had my last jab end of October so it kind of fits the timeline rather than bisoprolol. An assumption on my part but there’s loads of research papers out there suggesting this could be an overactive immune issue

[cbsrbpm]

Hi, I was diagnosed with Lichen Planus of the mouth some years ago after a biopsy of my tongue. My mouth was very sore but there was no actual treatment for it except some mouthwash which made it worse. I had been on the same medication for years so not that which caused it. It did subside quite a bit but would flare up on occasion, and still does. I too am suffering very itchy flare ups which has been diagnosed as urticaria which is also due to an autoimmune response. I take Dronedarone, Edoxaban, Diltiazem, Losartan and Sertraline. It’s best to avoid very spicy food and use a very mild mouth wash that does not contain alchahol. Not connected to the Covid Vaccine as it started way before I had that. I definitely feel it is autoimmune related. Hope you manage to get some relief.

Brenda

[Profound15 in reply to cbsrbpm]

Thanks Brenda. Hopefully the hospital appointment will involve a biopsy of the mouth which will confirm or otherwise LP. When that’ll happen is anybody’s guess. Not complaining as we are where we are re NHS currently

[Mouchkin]

I have Lichen Planus of my mouth…got it after years on beta blockers. I was advised at the hospital to have a child’s toothpaste and avoid very spicy foods. The steroid mouthwash helped too. I am taking Sotalol now. Lately I have had a rash on my chest ..and it improves for a while and comes back again. It can give me little blister like spots and they are quite sore. My mouth is in good nick at the moment except for some gum disease which I am trying to irradiate . It is thought I might have Sjorgrens disease as well…the blood tests indicate it.

[Profound15 in reply to Mouchkin]

Thanks Mouchkin. I have really itchy skin particularly on my back but no rash. Just trying to determine if it’s LP causing both the sore mouth and itchiness. Is it possible to get the itchiness with LP but no rash.

[Mouchkin in reply to Profound15]

I am not sure. I certainly have a lot of itchy ness ..to the point that it disturbs my sleep. I am quite old and I know dry skin can be a problem in older age

[Auriculaire]

Try Quercetin. This is good for over activation of mast cells that can cause lots of itching problems . Mast cells are part of the immune system and it is when they release too much /too often the chemicals they are meant to release that symptoms can occur.

[Profound15 in reply to Auriculaire]

Thanks Auriculaire. I’ve read that it can cause arrhythmia issues. I’m on flecainide and bisoprolol and wonder if there’s any interaction as well

[Auriculaire in reply to Profound15]

That's interesting. I have been using it this winter to control hives and itching that I have suffered from for the last few winters. I have noticed a slight increase in events. I'll try stopping it and see if it makes any difference.

[Profound15 in reply to Auriculaire]

Oh that’s interesting Auriculaire.

[momist]

My wife suffers terribly with this complaint, and also has Lichen Planus in other areas with mucus membrane (think about that). It started many years ago, and has gradually got worse over that time. Sadly she has also been diagnosed with a sensitivity to benzoates, particularly benzoic acid. Benzoates are frequently found naturally in many foods, particularly green vegetables (think of the slight spicy sensation from the ribs of cabbage). Because it is so common, and has bio static properties, it can be added freely to food stuffs without being declared. White flour is bleached with the stuff, and I have heard is added to the ice supplied to trawlers to help keep their fish "fresh". The damage that can be caused by this permits the Lichen Planus to spread more easily.

You should avoid spicy foods, as someone else said.

I've been told that strong steroids are the only treatment, but these are very difficult to apply to mucus membranes, and prolonged use can dangerously thin the skin, giving even more problems and opportunities for the Lichen Planus.

[Ablation7]

I’ve not had Lichen Planus, but have Sjogrens. Years ago a pharmacist suggested swishing a liquid antacid around my mouth for pain relief. He said, think how it heals esophagus. And it does help a lot. Good luck!

[Profound15 in reply to Ablation7]

Thanks Ablation 7

[SuziElley]

I have Lichen Planus in my mouth on and off. Likely caused by my asthma inhalers. Important to rinse the mouth after using them! It could be your medication but your dentist should be referring you to maxilla-fallacial department of your local hospital.

[Profound15 in reply to SuziElley]

Yes my dentist has referred me to the maxilla department. Waiting on an appointment but it could be a long wait

[SuziElley]

Let’s hope not too long.

[Profound15 in reply to SuziElley]

Thanks Suzi

[docmar]

Hi I had lichen planus all over the body (literally) for about a year a few years back. After several duff diagnoses, resulting in chemical burns and near poisoning in one instance, I got referred to a dermatologist who said it was probably caused by flecainide (I was on flecainide and bisoprolol at the time and had been for 6-7 years IIRC ). Was treated with a very strong steroid cream which cleared it up very quickly. Have recently been diagnosed it in the mouth although I take flecainide rarely as PIP. It doesn't cause me any problems and dentist keeps an eye on it. I'm still on bisoprolol.

[Profound15 in reply to docmar]

That’s very interesting Doc. I seem to be getting on ok with the flec (50mg twice a day) and bisoprolol (1.25mg once a day) so im hoping they aren’t the cause. The itching and sore mouth have only really happened after my third vaccine though

[docmar in reply to Profound15]

Mine certainly wasn't an instant reaction to medications Profound15 and in my case the itching only gradually became worse. Once I'd been given the right steroid cream it cleared up quite quickly (took about 3 weeks if I remember aright) but I'm pretty sure I've got some small patches lurking around the body. Once I knew what it was I wasn't too bothered. Was referred to Maxillar-facial department (took about 6 months for the referral to come through)who took a sample for biopsy. confirmed as lichen planar. I suspect it's likely to come and go until my body comes up with a new way to annoy me.

[Profound15 in reply to docmar]

Thanks Doc. Guess undergoing a biopsy will clarify for me.

[Dadtoalad23 in reply to Profound15]

hey did you find out the cause ? I’ve been referred to have a biopsy and I have grown to white patches in my mouth that are sore. I’m on Apixiban and bisiprolol and I’m wondering if this has contributed.

[Profound15 in reply to Dadtoalad23]

It was confirmed as lichen planus of the mouth but the symptoms have eased in the last few months. My guess is it was caused by the covid vaccines but that’s only my hunch. I’m on flecainide and bisoprolol but don’t think they’ve caused this issue. My dermatologist said that medication can cause skin issues but not really the mouth

[Dadtoalad23 in reply to Profound15]

I’m freaking out I’ve got mouth cancer. Only diagnosed with Afib two months. Been bloody hard work stressful and anxiety ridden which isn’t helping anything. Did they biopsy the patch ? Mines on my tongue.

[Profound15 in reply to Dadtoalad23]

The specialist did a biopsy from the inside of my cheek and then stitched it. My tongue and gums were very sore with the lichen planus and I couldn’t really eat anything that was ‘crunchy’ due to the pain it would cause. He prescribed an oral steroid which was a mouthwash and that worked a treat. Can’t say it’s bothered me since but he did warn that it will come and go over time.

[Dadtoalad23 in reply to Profound15]

thanks for the info. Praying I haven’t got tongue cancer 🙏🏽

[Dadtoalad23 in reply to Profound15]

my dentist said today he’s convinced it’s lichen planus and won’t order a biopsy. He had the condition himself and said he’s convinced. Can you advise on what steroid mouth wash you used please ?

[Profound15 in reply to Dadtoalad23]

it’s called betamethasone but I think it’s prescription only. It’s one tablet in 10mls of water and used as a mouthwash four times a day until the pain subsides. The specialist advised me only to use it when it’s really painful

[Dadtoalad23 in reply to Profound15]

thank you.