I’ve been reading that in the uk in the winter we should be taking a vitamin D supplement especially to help the immune system. This is important given the new covid variant I understand. I am on 50mg of flecainide twice a day and 1.25mg of bisoprolol once a day. Does anyone know if a vitamin D supplement (vitabiotics 400IU) could interact with my maintenance dose please. I don’t want anything to rock the boat as they are working very well. Thank you
Vitamin D supplement: I’ve been reading... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Vitamin D supplement
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Profound15
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BobDVolunteer
I doubt it but best ask your pharmacist.
Yes will do. Can’t see any interactions with flec but don’t want to take a chance
I concur, but always consult your pharmacist or doctor.There was some controversy here in the "great white north" about vitamin d suppliments. Not sure if it's conclusive yet, but my bloodwork revealed low levels, so my doc prescribed 1,000 per day. My sheets no longer have "D" added to it, so maybe it's not a thing here anymore?
Google; "do we really need vitamin d supplements"
Are you really just going to take 400IU? Or do you mean 4000IU. If you intend to take the higher dose of Vitamin D, I believe you should also take vitamin K2 - this can be tricky if you take the anticoagulant Warfarin as it reduces it's effectiveness. I watched a talk on it recently and will see if I can find it for you. I take 2,000 vitamin D and am trying to increase my K intake naturally.
Jean
Here is the talk:
youtube.com/watch?v=w9h-XQm...
Thank you Jean, very informative 👍
I watched that too jeanjeannie. In fact I watch most of John Campbell vids. It's good to inform yourself. Look at all evidence you can find or understand and try and make an informed choice. 400iu is really nothing to worry about. I first read about vid D by Soram Khalsa M.D. this is where my eyes were first opened to the lack of vit D especially at our latitude (uk). And it's not a one solution fits all either. We have to consider our age, weight, skin colour, air pollution, work indoors/out of doors, how much clothing we cover our bodies with, how much sun block...the list goes on a bit. I once heard a nutritionist remark 'as long as your hands and face are in the sun, you will get adequate vit D' . I nearly laughed out loud! That is preposterous. But I wont tell anyone what they should take. There is enough evidence out there. Go find.
Yes, I've subscribed to his talks more or less since covid started, so get them all as he releases them. By the way do you know that if you click on Subscribe it doesn't mean you have to pay anything. I used to think it did.
Jean
Thank you, Jean
Hi JeanI watched this video hence my query. I’m on the maintenance dose and it seems to be working well for me. I don’t want to jeopardise that. Been on it for a year now but have never taken Vit D. NHS site is advising 400IU
400iu is a waste of money. A recent German study has shown that a minimum of 4000iu a day is needed for people with low levels to get their level up to 50ng/mL ( 125nmol/l in uk measurements) .This is the level at which deaths from covid drop to almost zero. Dr John Campbell has an interesting video about the latest studies.The NHS recommendations are actually based on what is to prevent rickets and do not take into account any of the recent research on vit D and the immune system. They are out of date .
Thanks for the link that was really interesting l have been taking Adcal for many years l get it on prescription.
This info about vitamin C is interesting too:
youtube.com/watch?v=pKBOAMm...
Thank you for posting this. Recently I have just started taking 1000mg of vit C as part of my Covid prevention regime . It will be interesting to see if it has any effect on my afib frequency which is running at about 7 episodes a year at the moment.
I've been taking 1,000mg vit C daily too. As much as I can recall I've probably been doing so for about 18 months. Do you remember the post on this forum from the man who had cured himself of AF by diet and vitamins? He said to take it.
I don't see that it can harm. I would be thrilled if it reduced the number of attacks. Up to the end of 2019 I had hardly any afib attacks . Last year 7 and this year so far 7 . I'm blaming the pandemic and all the stress the passe sanitaire here has brought. I lost mine on Weds so it's back to the test at €25 a throw if I want to go anywhere.
Do you remember the post on this forum from the man who had cured himself of AF by diet and vitamins?
Do you mean Steven Carr ?
He uses cranberries for his Vitamin C
Yes I do. Have got a copy somewhere will re-read.
I have been taking Vit D with 200mgs Flecainide for over a year now and have had no problem.
In a week I will typically take 400IU on somedays and 1000 IU on some but not every day; I deliberately avoid a level dose and continual as I do eat oily fish & get outside a lot. I avoid taking a combined Vit D & K2 (Lamberts in UK) as K2 could increase clotting risk and I have plenty in my diet.
Higher levels of Vit D are suggested for Covid prophylaxis but I need to do more research on any downside risk for us AFers at those levels.
It is K1 that is involved in clotting.
Thanks, I had forgotten.
If you have low vitamin D you need at least 4000 iu daily. My Vit D was low my Doctor advised me to take 4000 iu daily.
Yes, I should get my level tested.
400 iu ? Is a total waste of time you need at least 4000 iu daily.
Ask pharmacist. I take vitamin D but asked my local pharmacy first .
You may be interested in this article:grassrootshealth.net/blog/p...
I take 2x100 Flecainide a day plus 1000 Vitamin D3. Have been doing so for years without problems.
I have been taking 4000iu d3 for 3 weeks since watching the above.
Last 10 days have been taking 8000iu with 2000iu vit k2. Just to make sure I have high levels, but won't continue so high forever.
I took a high dose last year too after listening to Anthony Faucci in the USA . He was advising 6000 iu daily if my memory is correct.
But having said all that I have developed sore throat/ swollen glands in my neck yesterday despite all my immune system boosting !
( not COVID according to lateral flow test)
Too much Vit D can be toxic. You should have your blood tested before and after you start dosing with Vit D. An ideal level would be a serum vitamin D level maintained at approximately 160 nmol/L (approx 64 ng/mL).
Not medically trained but Toxicity levels quoted appear to vary very widely
One site is this:
healthline.com/nutrition/vi...
It would appear you need a lot for a long time to get toxicity.
I have also seen studies where people with low levels of vit d have been given up 12000iu per day for 3 months for a variety of reasons inc spinal pain WHERE THAT PERSON WAS TESTED AND SHOWN TO HAVE LOW VIT D.
NOTE I am not recommending anyone to take extra vit D AS I CANT. I posted the link to the John Campbell video for info on an existing topic. You can make up your own minds. John Campbell is not telling anyone to take it either, although he is clearly enthusiastic.
However I am personally going to follow the study levels quoted by John Cambell and hope it helps me to avoid Covid even if this is not proved.
I doubt I will CURRENTLY have too much being based in Northern England in the winter!
I am also going to take the vitvK2 2000iu per day.
Should I become unstuck by this I will advise!
Hey, I agree. The video was informative. I thought I was low Vit D, so I took 10-15000 IU's for a couple weeks, then 5000 IU/day for another month. I didn't feel great cardiovascularly for about a week and then had a blood test. It said 85 ng/ml. It took a week of not taking any for that bad feeling to almost disappear. So pay attention to what you are feeling if you are upping the dose. It was extremely unpleasant.
It's a pretty safe thing to take and so might be worth trying. From what I can see, the evidence for its effect on the immune system is not supported scientifically, and not at all for covid.
A program on TV separated three groups into using different strategies to boost Vitamin D levels and, although sunlight was the best, a standard daily capsule worked well, too. Ultra-high doses have become fashionable, but I would take care in that case as it then becomes a drug and might have consequences such as increasing the chance of kidney stones.
This study was interesting:
medicalnewstoday.com/articl...
Steve
I guess the key issue here is that Dr Campbell is stating that taking Vit D can help prevent getting covid whereas this study is taking Vit D after they have covid if I’ve read it correctly. The dosage his video has suggested appears quite high and doesn’t take into account current levels already in the blood. I’d like to have a blood test to check my own level but this could be difficult given current NHS workloads.
Exactly. Read my reply to ppiman.
This study is flawed. Of course a dose ( even 200,000 iu ) of cholecalciferol will not make any difference to seriously ill patients. It has to be processed by both the liver into calcifediol and then the calcifediol has to be processed by the kidneys into calcitriol before it starts to affect the vit D receptors in the body. This process can take up to 2 weeks - so far too slow for seriously ill patients . A much quicker way is to give Calcifediol or Calcitriol directly and studies using these have been positive. Your first sentence astounds me. There is an enormous body of scientific research supporting the effect of vit D on modulating the immune system. There are also studies which do support it's importance in covid. Umpteen studies which show that prior good levels of vit D prevent not only poor outcomes but also can prevent you getting infected inthe first place. This Brazilian study only shows that cholecalciferol will not work on seriously ill patients .
We do hold different views on this. I have no doubt that vitamin D might yet be found to be important as a drug rather than just as a supplement but is it really true to say that the scientific community is settled on this? I can't find such evidence.
Also, when the "immune system" is suppressed, wouldn't the first evidence be an invasion from opportunistic pathogens that are normally commensals such as candida? So, a candida infection can very occasionally be a sign of a person being immunocompromised; but very few normally healthy people indeed are walking around with reduced immune systems. Surely much of this is a marketing ploy or myth generated by PR companies operating for various agencies and perpetuated by pseudo-scientific covertly commercial websites? There may well be some people who can be helped, but by far the majority of people are not needing their immune systems "boosted" - surely not?
Steve
There is plenty of scientific evidence for the role played by vitamin D in the immune system . Vit D receptors are found in every type of immune cell. There is no doubt whatsoever about the importance of vit D which is an essential hormone that has been around for millions of years in sustaining life and health. What is in doubt is the role of oral supplementation for those who cannot make sufficient vit D from sunshine . This is because the majority of RCTs have not been conducted well. A fixed amount of vit D has been given to the treatment arm . Given the large individual differences in the assimilation of cholecalciferol this is the wrong ( though simple) approach. Dosing needs to be done to reach a set blood level. An anecdotal example of this - I was only able to reach a level of 24 ng/ mL ( insufficient range here) on 3000iu a day whereas on the same dose my husband reached a respectable level of 48,5ng/mL. Most of the vit D trials that end up in meta analyses are not even giving as much as that often between 800 and 2000 iu a day . It is not a question of the immune system being suppressed - just not functioning as well as it could. Vit D is far better promoted here than in the UK and in the nursing homes where a loading ampoule was given at the beginning of winter there was far less covid. Yes this is anecdotal but there is no harm in getting people into what is accepted as the normal range - though of course the uk's normal range is lower than those in most of the rest of the world. The science is not a marketing ploy. It is possible to have adequate vit D levels with sufficient exposure to sunshine and consumption of foods which contain lots of it - at least for younger people . Old skin does not make vit D nearly as well as it is thinner and drier. But vit D deficiency is at worldwide epidemic levels because people avoid the sun too much -in some places because it is too hot but also because of decades of indoctrination about the sun causing skin cancer. Sensible sun exposure messages are muddled. How many people eat herring or mackerel these days ? Farmed salmon has less vit D. How many people can afford wild?
But what is the result of this epidemic of lack of vitamin D? And, yes, there’s evidence of its cellular metabolic role but that hasn’t translated into meaningful health benefits that can he shown clinically - has it?
I’ve looked pretty closely at this since the days when it’s role in MS began to be touted, and that proved a sad misreading and exaggeration of the science.
I have found lots of research as you point out, but not much evidence that taking vitamin D will produce actual health benefits beyond those that health regulators like NICE suggest.
Its benefits do seem to be massively over-promoted on the internet and by health food stores.
Steve
Poor health? I think you are actually looking at this the wrong way round. If there are internationally recognised levels for sufficiency ,insufficiency and deficiency then surely this should be addressed so that people have sufficient levels - and as the sufficient level range goes from 30ng/mL to 100ng/mL then aiming for the middle of this range is not going to do any harm. Especially as the median level for east African tribes still living traditionally with lots of sun exposure is around 48ng/mL. White skinned people who do jobs like pool and beach guards have been found to have even higher levels in summer . Since covering became obligatory for women in Iran (hijab from 6 years old) there has been an increase in a very aggressive form of breast cancer. Middle Eastern women have some of the lowest levels of vit D in the world. In his blog Dr David Grimes a retired GP and gastroenterologist in north west England describes the dire levels of his Asian women patients and their myriad health problems and how he was able to help them by getting their levels up. Incidentally I grew up there and in the 50s when I was a child I was sent for uvB lamp treatment and my mother was told to dose me with cod liver oil. I just cannot see what the problem is in wanting to address deficiency. How is it different from addressing thyroid hormone deficiency? It is not as if vit D supplements are expensive. They are not. Heaven forbid that greedy Pharma companies should try and turn it into a patented drug and then charge an arm and a leg for it. I believe people should be encouraged to get as much vit D from the sun as they can as sunbathing has other benefits but in most of the Northern hemisphere this is not possible for many months of the year. I do not get my vit D on the internet or from a health food shop. It is prescribed by my doctor . Same for lots of old ladies here. I was tested , found to be deficient and treated. Severely deficient despite spending lots of time outdoors , eating oily fish and taking the 400iu a day ( in a calcium supplement) touted by the NHS. The latest studies that Dr John Campbell talks about say thay at a level of 50ng/ mL and above covid deaths are virtually eliminated. Give me one good reason why people should not be encouraged to get their vit D up to that level. What harm can it do.?
All I can say is - as I see it - that Vitamin D seems to suffer in the clinical world by no one actually knowing either what level is required for health or what illnesses it can cure.
Each study I have found has the writer using mitigating language such as “might improve” and similar. There seems to be a great deal of work that has been done but which isn’t actually able to show truly conclusive results (but with trialists clearly sold on the benefits yet forced into mitigating their statements).
I’m finding it fascinating to follow.
Steve
There are internationally consistent ranges for sufficiency, insufficiency and deficiency. The only controversy is where in the sufficient range (which admittedly is large) it is best to be for various health markers. My view is that it is a bit like thyroid hormone levels How one feels at various levels in the normal range is individual . Some people feel fine with a TSH of 5 , others feel like death warmed up and do better with a TSH at the bottom of the normal range. But there is no excuse for leaving people with levels of vit D that are agreed to be deficient - under 20ng/mL . Because there is massive correlation at these levels with umpteen diseases. So why not improve them? Again where is the harm?
Well, correlation or not, the evidence is strangely wanting for many of the hyperbolic claims for this panacea. What’s fascinating is how many trialists I’ve read who are keen to show its wide benefits and effectiveness, yet can’t show it scientifically. That’s unusual.
Thyroid is surely different but also fascinating.
Steve
And how much are these trials using? Are they dosing to blood level or just giving a fixed amount? If you look at vitamin d wiki there are plenty trials were benefit has been shown.
I'll look at that Wiki site. What I explained was my observation after a general search for trials looking at vitamin D to boost the immune system and similar. As I say, I remain dubious about the ability of anything doing such a thing since I doubt immune systems are generally "weak" and in need of "boosting" in the first place. This seems more like popular / pseudo-science speak that has no real medical meaning at least for most otherwise healthy people. Clearly, there are many elements to the "immune system" beyond the anti-bodies that can be created by disease or immunisation but whether these can be (or should be...) "boosted" isn't something that I have yet been able to find out about (including vitamin D's possible role in this).
As for using high doses of vitamin D, then this would be using it unnaturally and thus as a drug. This might possibly bring benefits but would also possibly (likely?) bring toxicity and side effects.
Steve
Research into vit D has shown that very high doses 15,000+ iu a day over many months are needed to have any toxicity. You have to look at the very large amounts that sunshine can generate - thousands of iu in 10-15 min of full body exposure to midday sun . The body has a mechanism for dealing with this so you cannot overdose on sunshine created vit D . But we evolved to have these very large amounts of vit D generated in our bodies. Oral intake is not the same of course but toxicity is overhyped. I read somewhere about how the recommended daily dose is out by a factor of 10 and that this is due to a mathematical calculation mistake made some years ago and never corrected but I cannot remember where I have read it. The danger of kidney stones arises if you take large amounts of supplemental calcium . I believe far too much calcium supplementation was advised for women to combat osteoporosis. Vit K2 should be taken to prevent this. More important with high calcium supplementation is artery calcification. I have maintained vit D levels between 65 and 75 ng/mL for years now on my Calcifediol treatment . I take a small amount of calcium as I don't eat much dairy and 100mg K2 a day. No sign of kidney stones.
I take 200 mg Flecainide as well as Adcal and an additional 1000IU Vit D without any obvious problems.
Thanks Finvola. I asked a pharmacist this morning and she said the recommended dose is 400 international units
just a thought , a profound one, if you went out in the sun, summer time did it harm you , remember also vitamin d is fat soluble so best taken with meal containing some fat and for proper absorbtion take some vit k2 and magnesium , im not a trained professional , but never harmed me.
Hi Profound 🙂 I was prescribed Flecainide by an Electrophysiologist who knew I was already taking VD3 800iu a day on prescription from my GP for VD deficiency.
I no longer take Flecainide but do take a winter dose of VD3 supplementing the prescribed dose to total 4000 iu daily . If I don't take a high dose in winter I have difficulty walking due to pain in my legs and lower back.
Thanks Doodle that’s helpful
I have taken 2000iu Vitamin D for many years. Does not interfere with Eliquis or metoprolol. Check with your physician on your medications.
Would be good to have a blood test to determine your Vitamin D level and confirm appropriate dosage. Vitamin D supplement for older people is highly recommended by many medical professionals.
I'm with Jeanjeannie on this one. 400mg is nothing. My wife and I have been taking D3 5000mg daily for over 2 years now. No issues, no flu, no covid. Just had a test today as we plan a visit to reno NV for a Christmas party at one of the Casinos. I have AFIB and take Diltiezem 360ER 1xdaily and a 240 DiltiezemHR 1 x nightly. We also take Zinc 30mg daily.
Many of you will say I'm uninformed or crazy, but I have had absolutely NO shots of any kind since 1980 and no issues. I rarely get the flu and IF I do (hasn't happened in 4 years) I take liquid acidopholous 1 tablespoon twice daily and flu gone in 24 hours. We also take 1 tbsp a week during flu season as a preventive.
As for the Covid 19 vaccines, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole until they have more years of testing. If this was like ebola or something which has a much higher death rate, then I'd consider a shot.
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