Vitamin D Benefit to AF: This interesting... - AF Association

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Vitamin D Benefit to AF

jeanjeannie50
jeanjeannie50
111 Replies

This interesting info was in an email to me this morning.

medicalnewsbulletin.com/is-...

What do forum members think re vitamin supplements? The only one I take is vitamin D (liquid form), preferring to get my vitamins from the food I eat.

Has any vitamin helped calm your AF?

Jean

111 Replies
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Frances123

I had heard about vitamin D before but as I have to take adcal D3 for osteoporosis I don’t know if it does help with Afib. Only other thing I take is magnesium taurate after watching Sanjay Guptas video some years ago. I’m positive that does help and was only worsening Afib this year that kicked the ectopics of all over the place rather than the magnesium not working so well. Fingers crossed ablation has kicked it into touch, hopefully for a long time.

Love Frances xxx

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jeanjeannie50

Hi Frances

So many members here feel that magnesium really helps prevent AF. I put it in my bath and have an oil to spray on too, but can't really say for sure if it's helped me or not. I started taking vitamin D after having really bad flu a few years ago and haven't even had as much as a cold since.

Jean x

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Frances123

Thanks Jean. If I’ve had a particularly strenuous day and I’m know for overdoing things then I do have a soak in Epsom salts/magnesium bath. Don’t know if it’s the warmth or salts but it feels so good. I have occasionally rubbed spray oil onto a joint at bedtime. Funnily enough when I lie down in bed the aches never bother me and I sleep well!

Thanks

Frances xxx

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Jalia
Jalia
in reply to jeanjeannie50

Well if it helps on the cold front I shall look certainly look into this Jean .

I always get at least one horrendous cold each year which really knocks me for six. If it helps in the AF dept also that will be a bonus !

As you know I am a great fan of Mag Glycinate which I hold responsible for my longest gap in episodes in recent memory .

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jeanjeannie50
jeanjeannie50
in reply to Jalia

What make and strength of Mag Glycinate do you use? I may well give it a try, citrate gave me reflux type stomach soreness.

I tell you what, if I get through the next few winter months without a cold or flu I'll be singing the praises of vitamin D as loud as I can. I use a liquid vitamin D3 by Nature's Garden. One of the many benefits it states on the front is 'Contributes to the normal function of the immune system'.

Jean

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Jalia
Jalia
in reply to jeanjeannie50

I buy my Mag Glycinate from Amazon although you can buy direct from Your Supplements.. They have to be capsules for me as tablets are too big and get caught in my throat! Capsules are 100mg each and I take 2 at night. Delivery is very swift from this UK company ....same day despatch

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jeanjeannie50
jeanjeannie50
in reply to Jalia

What make are your magnesium tablets?

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Jalia
Jalia
in reply to jeanjeannie50

They are produced by the company known as Your Supplements....so that is the make. You'll find details on their website.

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Surreychica_1

I have some trouble with the Citrat . At least I think it was the citrate. I got stange sensations in my stomach when I bed over or turned and also had a bit of a runny tummy so I have stopped taking it.

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jeanjeannie50

It gave me stomach soreness and had no effect on my bowels at all.

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Surreychica_1

I was taking just ordinary Magnesium when I palpatation and that seemed to work really well but then I saw an article and it recommened the citrate but since I have been taking it my stomach is really weird. Apparently it takes fluids from other areas and puts it in your intestines and is good for constipation which I do not have and so I had a very runny tummy as well.

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Surreychica_1

Do you mean that the magnesium helps you Afib but not your ectopics. Because I have that and started to ectopics far worse when I started Megnesium Citrate. Not sure if it was that but have stopped taking them. Can you tell me what you take for ectopics beats!!

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pusillanimous

I have osteopenia and some osteoporosis, and I was prescribed Vit D and Calcium tablets (one a week) and a bisphosphonate tablet once a month. As my Afib is symptomless, I'm not sure if the Vit D helps.,but I like to believe it does !

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Kaz747

Magnesium certainly helps.

Re Vitamin D - Living in Australia, I get plenty of sunshine and eat lots of good Vitamin D containing foods. In blood tests my levels have always been good so I don’t believe in my case there is a correlation between Vitamin D and AF -there may be in others though.

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jeanjeannie50

That's an interesting point Kaz, yes you'd think that living in a country with a lot of sunshine would provide enough vitamin D. I guess you'd have to be out in it frequently though. I just find it interesting how new ideas on preventing AF pop up, but am always keen to find out more just in case it's the cure! Maybe it's a combination of certain vitamins, exercise, etc, that help.

I feel sure our bodies must be lacking in something, or is it like EngMac believes and to do with misalignment in our spines. Honestly, I could talk about this subject forever.

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Auriculaire

Being out in the sun slathered in cream ( as promoted in the past by the Slip Slop Slap cancer prevention drives in Australia ) will not result in a good level of vit D. The education round vit D is on the whole abysmal. In order to make sufficient in the skin to attain a good level and not need supplements full body exposure without sunscreen (ie swimsuit/bikini) for 10 minutes to midday sun several times a week is needed for fair skin. The opposite of what the cancer preventers say and impossible to achieve in winter. The darker your skin the longer the exposure needed. The older you are the less well your skin makes vit D. The torso and legs make most so telling people that walking about exposing just their face and arms for a few minutes each day is sufficient is rubbish especially if their skin is brown or black. The pollution in cities reduces the amount of vit D that can be made as does taking a statin. The education about supplementation is equally bad. The absorption and mobilisation to various tissues of vit D by individuals varies enormously depending on such things as obesity level and liver function. On a personal anecdotal level I was unable to maintain my blood level in the normal range on 3000iu a day whereas that dose was fine for my husband. The only way to know if you are taking enough is to get your levels tested . The recommendations for supplementation are for most people woefully inadequate. Most of the vit D researchers recommend far higher amounts and take these themselves. They also recommend far higher blood levels -not just making it into the normal range. The UK normal range is lower than those in European countries so that you get classed as having sufficient at a level that here in France would get you treated. And not just told to go to Boots and buy some -as happened to a friend of mine who had her levels tested at the lab here. They were rock bottom even by UK standards and that was the response she got when she showed the lab results to her doctor. No advice on how much to take to get her levels up quickly, no offer of testing to see if they were coming up. Doctors here are far more proactive as regards vit D supplementation as they see it as a weapon in the preventative medicine armoury. And we have more sunshine too - though not at the moment!

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Horse57
Horse57
in reply to Auriculaire

You are so correct about vitamin D. Many people do not absorb it and they need to take higher doses of supplementation. I take a plant-based vitamin D 3 and I take 10,000 iu a day and I still cannot get my levels past 40. 80 is optimal for prevention of cancer osteoporosis and other diseases. Magnesium malate Is a great supplement for detoxification. Magnesium taurate is wonderful for the heart. I don’t think that magnesium citrate does much good other than irritate people. Vitamin D cannot be over emphasized even if you eat salads all day long every day for six months and other foods rich in vitamin D you will never achieve the goal of 80. In the United States they treat you with50,000 if you are deficient once and then supplement recommendation is quite low and so peoples vitamin D3 level drops again and they think that they are covered. There is ample evidence to suggest that all women with breast cancer have one thing in common and that is a low vitamin D three level at the time of diagnosis.

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Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Horse57

The only foods that contain vit D in any quantity are oily fish, liver and egg yolks . And the animals have to be raised outside . My GP prescribes drops of Dédrogyl a vitamin D analogue - calcifediol- which is what comes out of the liver after the first step of vit D metabolism. It is 4/5 times as powerful as cholecalciferol and 3/4 drops a day keeps my levels between 60 -70 ng/l. I also sunbathe year round if there is enough sun ( even in the winter here the sun is strong enough for 30mins or so round solar noon. Though there is no vit D to be made the UVA stimulates the formation of nitric oxide which relaxes the arteries. It also stops the tan from fading too much which gives some protection when the UVB is strong enough to make vit D from mid March onwards. Today it was just warm enough to work in the garden in a t shirt. The skin cancer scaremongering ( hyped enormously with the money of companies like L'Oreal to sell sunscreens) has been a public health disaster . There needs to be massive education programmes on sensible and health giving sun exposure. Without the sun there would be no life - we evolved with it and we need exposure to it.

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Horse57
Horse57
in reply to Auriculaire

Thank you for the excellent information. I wholeheartedly agree with the fear mongering that’s going on about the sun.

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Lilypocket

Hello where are you in France. I live in the Paris region.

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Auriculaire

Bonjour-In the Limousin between Limoges and Brive.

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pusillanimous

I live in South Africa, and although I love the warmth of the sun, I do not like sitting in the sun, unless I'm well covered up, too many people I know have developed malignant melanomas, so consequently as I'm very fair skinned I always wear long sleeves and hats if I'm to sit in the sun in the shade, and my Vit D is low, hence the need for supplementation.

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Auriculaire

Vit D has been shown to protect against melanoma. You do not need to expsure your skin for a long time especially as fair skin makes vit D much faster than black or brown skin. 10 minutes is sufficient. The surge of melanomas is due to people with fair skins either moving to countries populated normally by dark skinned people and spending too long unprotected in the sun , or people spending most of the year working indoors and then grilling themselves for a fortnight on holiday. In Mediterranean countries where people people started their sun exposure early in the year( I can sunbathe here in the Limousin from late Feb onwards though their is no vit D to be made north of Madrid till about mid March) they built up protection in their skins gradually and there were no epidemics of malignant melanoma till mass tourism started. Agricultural workers actually have lower levels than office workers.

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Kaz747

We’re recommended to get our exposure before 10.00 or after 4.00 and make sure we slip, slop, slap in between (slip on a shirt, slip on sunscreen and slap on a hat). My husband had major surgery for a melanoma on his chest when he was 16 and he wasn’t a beach bum - he had fair skin and freckles.

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pusillanimous

Much the same advice here, although most people do not realise black skinned people can develop melanomas, but strangely they mostly get them on the soles of their feet - lack of VitD in that area maybe?

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irene75359

My father died from melanoma and the first indication he had was a flat black blister under one of his toes. He was treated by the nurse at his GP's, was given antibiotics and an attempt was made to lance it. This went on for at least a couple of months, and it wasn't until he went to a pharmacy and showed the pharmacist the blister that he realised it was serious. The pharmacist went into action mode, rang his GP and told them and my father that urgent treatment was needed.

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Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Kaz747

Fair skin and freckled people evolved to take advantage of northern and cloudy climates. They are not adapted for life in places like Australia and South Africa! Sunscreen is dangerous - full of nasty chemicals that are being absorbed into the skin many of which are carcinogenic themselves. There has not been any diminution of skin cancer rates with their use. They give people a false sense of security leading to overexposure and many do not actually have the sun protection factor they claim. Much better to cover with clothes and a hat and lurk in the shade once enough sun exposure has occurred for vit D formation . All people should know their skin type and how long they need to expose themselves for.

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Pattering
Pattering
in reply to Kaz747

Did you follow the article through to the bottom where a reply stated too much Vit D can also cause arrhythmias? Bit of a Catch22 for us maybe?

Pat x

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jeanjeannie50

Yes, but that person wasn't involved in the AF study. Just giving his opinion, which is fine.

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wilsond

Interesting! I always seem to get far more AF in the winter. The article seems to make sense to me!

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jeanjeannie50

Yes, I always seem to get it in the winter months too. I think the more we talk about AF and what could be the cause, the more chance we have on stumbling on the answer. I wonder if there's a common link that has an effect on all of us? Could be something as simple as using a microwave oven, or not sleeping well.

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cassie46

I have been taking Vitamin D for about 2 years now. I read an article that as we get older our levels of vitamin D go down. Another reason that I started is because I was doing less walking with my dog because of mobility problems (hip problems) so was getting far less exposure to sunshine. I do not know if it has helped the AF, I think I am less tired so I will carry on with them.

Cassie

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jeanjeannie50

Hi Cassie

I too have read that as people get older they need more vitamin D and certainly feel more energetic these days. I also strongly believe that overeating is one of the most damaging things we can do to our bodies. We put more food in our bodies than they can cope with!

Are you hoping to have a hip replacement?

Jean

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JanetMayne

My AF ha been worse in the winter for the past few years. I am now taking vitamin D and using magnesium oil and think it's improved it a bit.

I read some articles a while back which said vitamin D helped with the ABSORPTION of minerals so possibly we get more magnesium into our system when we take vitamin D. Who knows??🤔🤔

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Auriculaire

You need to take magnesium alongside vit D as the two work together. Also as vit D increases calcium absorption taking vit K 2 ensures that the calcium ends up where it should ie in bones and teeth and not in arteries and breast tissue.

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JanetMayne

Thank you, that is interesting to know. How does the vitamin K2 affect NOAC anti-coagulants like Apixaban? I know they are not vitamin K antagonists, so perhaps not a problem? Are you also suggesting that extra calcium absorbed because of the vit D could be harmful by ending up in the "wrong" places?

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Auriculaire

This is I think only a problem if calcium supplements are being taken. I think there was some research that showed that women taking high levels of calcium supplements and vit D to prevent osteoporosis had more heart problems. I don't think K2 affects NOACS. I have seen suggestions that taking K2 supplements when on Warfarin makes it easier to manage the Warfarin as it blots out the ups and downs of the K1 in green leafy veg.

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JanetMayne

Thanks. Will check it out!

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jeanjeannie50

Yes, that's the problem for us, I don't think anyone truly knows what does and doesn't help with our ailments. So many people on this forum have reported how magnesium has helped reduce their AFattacks, that I feel sure that must help.

I found this link interesting:

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

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MIC1

I take magnesium, CoQ10, omega3, and vitamin D. I have been in NSR for 3 years. I really have no idea if these products help with a fib, but I think there is a psychological benefit. The interesting point of your post is that you take a liquid form of vitamin D. A few years before I experienced a fib, my vitamin D level was very low. My doctor prescribed mega doses of vitamin D in pill form over a couple of months. My levels barely increased. Thanks to my wife, a research librarian, she discovered the liquid vitamin D was much more effective than pills. In about three months our levels were on the high end of normal. I take three drops (1000 IU per drop) per day. Solaray is the product that I use.

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jeanjeannie50
jeanjeannie50
in reply to MIC1

That's interesting and a good recommendation. I know that others on here take CoQ10. I took the liquid vitamin D so that I didn't have to consume the fillers in the tablet form. Was your AF really troublesome before you took the supplements?

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MIC1
MIC1
in reply to jeanjeannie50

My afib was not too troublesome. I had one incident the night before the US Thanksgiving holiday in 2016. I went to the ER and I was diagnosed with afib. A lot of stress and worry for a couple of months culminating in a week of afib in Feb 2017 that began while I was sleeping (vagal). Basically, after dealing with a cardiologist for three months, saw an excellent EP who told me that I could ride out the afib event for up to 48 hours, as opposed to my cardiologist who told me to go to the ER within a couple of hours. I think that the EP removed a lot of stress and I went back to almost leading a normal life. No afib since Feb or March 2017. An occasional run of tachycardia while exercising but it resolves. Knock on wood!

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jeanjeannie50
jeanjeannie50
in reply to MIC1

It sounds like you were able to beat AF by taking your supplements before it really got a hold on you. I'm envious, I've had it for 14 years and been hospitalised many times in the past. Three ablations later I still have AF.

Long may your good health continue.

Jean

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MIC1
MIC1
in reply to jeanjeannie50

Thank you.

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Surreychica_1

That is awful. Poor you what an awful thing Afib is.

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Lahodges10

I’ve just started with magnesium (I’m newly diagnosed so only a few days in taking it!) so I’ll let you know. id be interested to hear from others as to what they take as I’ll do anything to feel normal again. Xx

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jeanjeannie50

Please do, which one are you taking?

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Lahodges10

I’ll absolutely let you know. I’m taking Viridian Magnesium Taurate as recommended by a nutritionist in a local health shop (and some kind members on here - not sure what I’d do without popping on here everyday!)

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dmjtanner

My EP recommended magnesium for me 5 years ago to help with ectopics. He told me it would take several weeks before I would notice a difference. It did make a lot of difference in the frequency of my PACs and PVCs.

My endocrinologist checks my vitamin D level every year. Even though I live in sunny Florida, as we get older we do not convert the sunshine on our skin into vitamin D as well as we used to. She likes my levels to be in the 40’s to 50’s. Not too high and not too low.

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jeanjeannie50

Hmm, don't think I've ever had my vitamin D levels checked, may look into that. Interesting that not even the Florida sun gives you enough of the vitamin. I too had heard that we don't convert vit D from the sun as much as we grow older.

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dmjtanner

I wrote a response but must have not pushed the “send” button. 😆 Anyway, vitamin D levels are easy to check. In the states, most insurances cover the cost. I read your link and agree, vitamin D is a hormone. My endocrinologist checks mine because it helps prevent osteopenia and osteoporosis. She adjusts my supplementation up or down because too high a level can be toxic.

A co-worker of mine years ago (registered dietitian) swore by taking mega doses of vitamin D the first few days of a cold or respiratory illness.

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Surreychica_1

Which magnesium are you taking please for your ectopics. I have been taking Magnesium Citrate but that has given me strange feelings in my stomach.

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dmjtanner

Hi, I have found success with “Triple Magnesium Complex” by Nature’s Truth. I get it on Amazon. It contains a combination of 3 types of magnesium; aspartate, oxide and citrate. One capsule is 400mg total.

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Surreychica_1

I might try that. Before I had stents put in I just took ordinary magnesium and that really did help with the palpitations I was experiencing. But then I read somewhere that magnesium citrate was the best and so I purchased that but I soon became uncomfortable but I put it down to my experiencing heart failure as I was getting short of breath, but when I read up on Magnesium citrate it says it takes fluids from other parts of your body to go in the intestines and so I have stopped taken it and feel a lot better and that feeling has gone almost.

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dmjtanner

Let us know if it helps. Give it some time. ❤️

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carneuny

Hiya Jean,

May I just ramble on ............ I have lived a total of 40 years in Australia, ending in 2005 so I well understand what Kaz is saying. Every now and then I return to Oz and get 'topped up with sunshine'. :-) :-) However, as you know I follow a food plan, a plan that was devised for me by a professional nutritionist. She also prescribed other medication designed to calm my gut, hopefully calm my vagal nerve and thereby calm my heart.

All that said, she has also prescribed CoQ10 and a cod liver oil ....... Brand, Nordic Naturals, Arctic Cod Liver Oil 340EPA/510 DHA, now this label is very specific and if you research you will find there are shedloads of products that form the title Cod Liver Oil ..... but this is the one she opted for for me.

I will now try and put on here the nutritional facts ...... bear with me ....

QUOTE

Description

Directions for use

One teaspoon daily, with food, or as directed by your healthcare professional or pharmacist. Do not exceed the recommended dose. Not to be used as a substitute for a varied diet.

Nutrition Facts

Servings size: 1 Teaspoon (5ml)

Servings per bottle: 48

Amount

Per Serving:% RDA

Calories45

Calories from Fat45

Total Fat5.0g

Saturated Fat1.0g

Trans Fat0g

Cholesterol20mg

Vitamin A128-885ug RE16-111%

Vitamin D0-0.5ug0-10%

Total Omega-3s1050mg

EPA (Eicosapentaenoic Acid)350mg

DHA (Docosahexaenoic Acid)485mg

Other Omega-3s215mg

Ingredients: Purified Arctic Cod Liver Oil, Antioxidant: Alpha Tocopherol, Rosemary Extract (a Natural Preservative)

No Gluten, Milk derivatives, or artificial colours or flavours.

END QUOTE

I do remember that at the time of my consultation she emphasised the need to focus on EPA and DHA but can't remember all 'the stuff'.

Anyway, has it been effective ??, probably it hasn't done me any harm, maybe a lot of good - can't say ...... finished with Nutritionist and into the food plan in Sept 2011 and by this time I was also into CoQ10 and Nordic Naturals (as above). AF events subsided as I aged and last one was April 2015. The next one came sleeping on my left side in Feb 2018 ....... nothing in between and nothing since - although I have eaten certain 'forbidden foods' and followed it with either 'GUT' issues or runs of very rapid HR and feeling crap, like wanting to die :-( or both .... again my last 'hit' of this was July 2019 and nothing since.

I have chosen not to name my supplier but if anyone is interested, PM me and I can give you their website details.

Hope that's of interest Jean ............ hey Kaz, can we have some of your sunshine please :-)

John

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jeanjeannie50

Thanks for that info John. I'm afraid that after being forced to take cod liver oil as a child the very thought of that disgusting tasting stuff makes me feel sick. I have taken it in capsule form, but stopped when it was thought that it wasn't good for cholesterol and went on to an Omega3 supplement. That was in the days when taking supplements was so popular! However, it's very encouraging that you believe your newly adopted diet has helped. As we say 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating' and you've given us that proof.

Your advice is inspiring and very much appreciated, thank you.

Jean

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Auriculaire

The problem with cod liver oil is that it provides very little vit D but large amounts of vit A. In order to get sufficient vit D using it as a sole source of supplementation one would be ingesting toxic amounts of vit A

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Kaz747
Kaz747
in reply to carneuny

I’ll send some ☀️ your way

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carneuny
carneuny
in reply to Kaz747

It worked Kaz, we've got a nice sunny day here in Cornwall AND 7.5 degrees at 1pm 😂😂

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Lilypocket
Lilypocket
in reply to carneuny

Hi John

I thought that fish oil was contra- indicated with anti- coagulants as it acts as an anti imflamatory. I take Pradaxa and I bought fish oil capsules and the notice said not to take if taking ant- coats

Phew what jungle Afib is!

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carneuny
carneuny
in reply to Lilypocket

Hiya Lilypocket,

As I commented in my post I was prescribed this particular brand and dosage by a Nutritionist to whom I'd fully declared my AF condition and the medication I was prescribed, which included Warfarin.

I self test my INR and my theraputic range is 2.0 to 3.0 with the ideal being 2.5.

Now the warning on the fish oil I was prescribed simply says ........... consult my physician if I plan to use this product while taking anti coags. It does not forbid taking it along side anti coags.

I can't recall ever having done this BUT - I have been taking Warfarin for 10 years on 6 Jan 2020 and this particular brand of fish oil for some 9 and half years .......... its never been an issue for me and I can confirm that my INR is always between 2.2 and 2.7 .... even my INR clinic is amazed at how consistent my readings are.

Now I write this only in the context of the brand I take, NOT, other brands including those off the shelf in supermarkets or online, or in health food shops. I just don't know about them. Mind you, the brand I use is more expensive than the market place alternatives I have to say.

Yep, AF sure is a jungle ;-)

John

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Ppiman

Good morning, Jean. It’s interesting what is being imputed to be caused by nutrient “deficiencies” these days. Having read this trial, I’ll be sticking with eating a well-balanced diet, myself. I’m sure you eat really well, too. I did try a long course of magnesium taurate a while back,, based on a trial someone sent me, but it has no effect.

It worries me when results aren’t reported meaningfully but, instead, are given in terms of “increased risk”. It seems to me that this is unhelpful without knowing the percentage or actual number of people who suffered compared with the cohort.

Steve

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jeanjeannie50

Morning Steve

The thing is, what is 'eating well' these days? Vegetables etc are mass produced and sprayed with chemicals to give the biggest, best and pest free goods. With that in mind it's made me think that perhaps there is a need for some supplements these days.

My dad a farmer and into healthy eating, long before it became fashionable, would say, "If a maggot won't eat an apple then don't you". I guess this could apply to slugs, caterpillars and other pests that we used to have living on our crops.

Jean

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Tricia239

By the way, I have for a long time thought as you, about the ‘value’ of our produce these days - just got back from Spain and was mortified to see acres and acres of polythene covering plants which of course aren’t grown in soil, just chemically fed. Also wonder if chemicals leach from the polythene into the actual plants. It’s all quite worrying. T x

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carneuny
carneuny
in reply to Tricia239

Hi Tricia,

It's happening down here in Cornwall, acres of polytunnels with strawberry plants growing in beds about waist high in place with supports in the ground. Don't know what the strawberries are growing in, soil or what ? Maybe for weather protection for vulnerable plants.

Not sure.

John

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Tricia239
Tricia239
in reply to carneuny

Just isn’t natural, not to mention an eyesore! Guess I’ve turned into a grumpy old woman!!

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carneuny
carneuny
in reply to Tricia239

Me ... the original grumpy old man 😂😂

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jeanjeannie50

That's why nothing has a lot of taste these days!

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jeanjeannie50

Yep, plastic and chemicals have a lot to answer for. I'm sure things like potatoes and carrots tasted better when they used to be sold to us with earth on them.

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Auriculaire

Plus a bit of dirt can be good too ! Soil borne bacteria are now being bigged up for boosting the microbiome.

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Tricia239

Thanks for highlighting that - really interesting. I’ve not seen it in liquid form, where do you get yours from? Tricia x

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jeanjeannie50

Hi Trish

Holland and Barratt - Nature's Garden Vit D3

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Tricia239

Ta! x

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Ppiman

Yes, you’re right. But all the evidence I’ve read over many years of interest is that a varied diet provides all we could possibly need and more. We eat organic where we can (especially meat, hoping this means better animal welfare, too).

I know some people believe strongly that eating or taking this or that is helpful (or is a “trigger“) and I do wish that I could find something, too, but what I see mostly is that all this buying only keeps the “nutriceutical” industry in good health.

A flurry of snow is forecast for up here (Loughborough) this morning. We’re hoping our young grandson will be awake in time to enjoy it! ☺️

Steve

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jeanjeannie50

Snow, how exciting!! We rarely get it here in Devon, other than on Dartmoor.

I was thinking I'd get all my vitamins from food too, but now believe vitamin D is needed in the winter months as we become older.

Jean

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Ppiman

No snow after all - but at least no fog today.

My blood test showed my vitamin D was okay but on the lower side. I tried extra for several months but noticed no difference in my health - I live in hope that one or other supplement will do something, but so far none have!

It seems to be a useful vitamin to take but the evidence is not so clear(because it's impossible, I suppose, to study such a thing over a long enough period).

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Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Ppiman

Unfortunately magnesium content of fruit and veg has plummeted due to the degradation of soils brought about by intensive farming methods. This might be the case for other nutients as well.

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Ppiman
Ppiman
in reply to Auriculaire

I’ve read that and can believe anything of farming methods these days. However, magnesium is a key constituent of chlorophyll (which is in all green leaves), so I would have thought a mixed diet would provide plenty. I would think that people in general eat more vegetables and salads than fruit.

Steve

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Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Ppiman

There is just less in green leafy veg too maybe. Though usually magnesium deficiency leads to yellowing of leaves.

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Ppiman
Ppiman
in reply to Auriculaire

I believe that the chlorophyll, and thus the magnesium, content of all green plants is fixed as a part of their cellular make up and metabolism. I would think that any diet that includes "greens" would supply sufficient magnesium. I have read that there is a deficiency in some people but that it is very hard to know this for sure since the magnesium is buried deep within the cell. Apparently, to detect a genuine deficiency requires a measurement of the so-called "intra-cellular" magnesium - which is, I gather, rarely done and far from easy. I wonder if it isn't possible that those relatively few people who do suffer a deficiency aren't suffering from some kind of metabolic disturbance that prevents magnesium absorption (for example a thyroid problem).

Certainly the search by consumers for a form of magnesium that is "easily absorbed" seems to be driven more by internet marketing and rather specious arguments; perhaps even by "neutriceutical" profit hunters. Even magnesium oxide is absorbed sufficiently since in the stomach a good part of it reacts with stomach acid to form the chloride salt, which is well absorbed in the intestinal tract.

Steve

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Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Ppiman

I'm sure I have read that some plants have a particularly high magnesium content-asparagus for example. We grow this in the potager and I dress the beds with magnesium sulphate in January. Given the laxative effect eating the asparagus has on us I find it easy to believe! As a sufferer from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity it is very important for me to not become magnesium deficient. Since also taking mag taurate 3 times a day I have had no afib attacks.

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Ppiman
Ppiman
in reply to Auriculaire

I would have thought that being a "forced" vegetable, the magnesium content of asparagus would have been less, although it might be there but not as chlorophyll.

Bad luck for suffering owing to those antibiotics. I'm sorry you've suffered so. Adverse reactions to drugs are an unusual but serious issue and I suspect the medical community don't take this seriously enough. I have a particular anger at the way SSRI meds are handed out like Smarties and yet for a small percentage of takers they are, effectively, poisons.

Magnesium taurate is a well absorbed compound, I read, but it contains relatively little magnesium. This means it's less likely to have a laxative effect, but it is an expensive way to take magnesium.

Steve

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Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Ppiman

Having a shortened ( and what the GP calls accelerated) transit due to a colectomy I don't have any need for laxatives! I am not sure what is forced about asparagus. Maybe when commercially grown. We just let it come up and eat it. It crops from mid April to June and we have to eat it every other day to keep up with it as well as giving it away to friends.

My sister has taken anti depressants for years. She has tried to stop them with no success. I think she is now on Effexor - not sure if that is an SSRI or not.

I am a lucky floxie. I can still lead a relatively normal life though a bit hampered by pain . I would do better if I allowed myself to take painkillers everyday but there are none which are not poisons too. Many floxies are wheelchair bound or living with really bad neuropathy .

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Ppiman
Ppiman
in reply to Auriculaire

I have never grown asparagus but when we go bird-watching in my favourite county (Suffolk!) we see it growing in the fields and it seems that the farmers pile up the earth over it to keep the shoots away from the light and more tender. That's what made me think it was "forced" but maybe that's the wrong word. I was thinking of rhubarb (another wonderful plant).

I have what is called "redundant colon" so have the opposite to you, in a way. I definitely need my daily prunes! I've never noticed any effect from asparagus - but it's such a lovely vegetable, fried in butter with garlic. Mmm- mm-mmm....

Steve

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Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Ppiman

Our asparagus is the green variety. You do see the white ones in the shops and they are always more expensive. I cook mine in the microwave then add a bit of butter to serve. I peel and freeze the tougher ends then use them to make soup. We will have asparagus soup on Christmas day. We grow rhubarb as well but don't force that either. Too much work! Besides it grows like a weed.

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Shcldavies

Vitamin D is essential and in some can be the "final straw" causing AF/arrhythmia, but so many other things can as well. I don't need to tell you the its best to get all nutrient naturally (I am with you all the way on this) but where you can't then supplements can benefit. Its not always easy to know what your body is missing but magnesium and Vitamin D (at this time of year) are a good bet. A lack of vitamin D (along with other things associated with arrhythmia - low magnesium, stress etc) can also cause calcification which I believe is in the heart of every arrhythmia sufferer. Unfortunately calcification tests are only performed when deemed essential due to the risk of radiation during the procedure, so the vast majority of arrhythmia suffers will never get the test, hence its not a widely known link. Fortunately calcification can be reversed with the right diet - low carbs and low sugar diet.

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jeanjeannie50

Interesting information. The ball is in our court isn't it!!!

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Ppiman
Ppiman
in reply to Shcldavies

Hello Steve

I try to keep myself up-to-date with the latest clinical studies on atherosclerosis but haven't read anything much of late that points to a safe way to reduce plaques / calcification, nor that magnesium or calciferol are useful

Have you got any new information? I'd be keen to find out.

Steve

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sendit2al
sendit2al
in reply to Ppiman

Research vit. C

There are studies showing plaque builds up on arteries where rough spots occur. Vit. C seems to keep arteries smooth so plaques don't occur. 1000 mg plus a daily 6 oz

Glass of orange juice has worked for me at age 72 with strong family history of arteriosclerosis.

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Ppiman
Ppiman
in reply to sendit2al

Plaque has been shown to exist even in young people, in their teens. There's something genetic about it. I'll look into this - thanks.

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ThinkHealth1
ThinkHealth1
in reply to Ppiman

Hi, blueberries and fish oil supplements are both helpful for preventing and regression of arteriosclerosis. My 96 year old dad (with afib) has taken both for about twenty years. He is always told by the doctors that his arteries are in very good shape. Arteriosclerosis runs in our family too.

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Ppiman
Ppiman
in reply to ThinkHealth1

If you remember Enoch Powell, he once explained that his intellect and good health were down to his eating fish weekly. :-)

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majjic

I take a high dose of vitamin D every day...it's one you spray under your tongue...I don't go out in the sunlight much (not that we get that much here).....I do have a magnesium spray here too but i was a bit undecided about using it....Are there any scenarios where you shouldn't use it?

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jeanjeannie50

Not that I know of, but Google it if you are unsure.

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majjic

Yes i could do that...I Google everything else.

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mbhakta

thanks jeanjeannie for your useful post

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Mikee69

I take D3, magnesium and cod liver oil.

Does it help? I think so, the magnesium certainly reduces my palpations.

Does it hurt? Only my bank balance

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Happywalker

I had a vitamin D deficiency and was given a loaded dose to bring it into the normal range. When tested again I was only just in the range so I now take 2000 iu daily. On the advice of the Thyroid Association I also take a vitamin B complex and Magnesium as both Vitamin B12 and folate were low. I used to get bouts of AF every night and ectopics. Now all that seems to have stopped and I can't remember when I last had a bout of AF. Lucky me. I now feel much better as the vitamin D deficiency made me feel dreadful. Lots of bone pain and weakness. I also developed an appalling itchy skin and scalp which nearly drove me mad. I had to use a potent steroid for three years to control it. But as soon as I started supplementing, my skin problems completely disappeared. All those visits to the doctor and medications were completely unnecessary. I take magnesium glycinate as the citrate gives me diarrhea.

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jeanjeannie50

That's a good example of how taking vitamin D can help. I try to get my vitamin B12 by eating liver weekly.

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gppablo

thank you for sharing. I had low levels of vitamin D and then AF. Taking suplements in winter.

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Bluz

I'd discuss this with my physician. I found this interesting and went looking for further info and found that some studies find it beneficial and others not, but that an excess of Vitamin D has also been linked to onset of afib in some studies. So.....take care with it.

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DIB69

I think that most of us are probably deficient in both vitamins and minerals due to the way our food is farmed and produced. Listening to Isabella Tree, writer and conservationist on Desert Island Discs recently spoke of this and noted that you'd have to eat 10 tomatoes nowadays to get the benefit of one that was grown in the 1950s. There's a lot of information on the internet regarding deficiency of magnesium and the multiplicity of functions it supports in the body. Numerous articles pay particular attention to magnesium's role in heart health, so along with Vit D for sun starved Brits I think it's definitely worth considering supplementation.

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Ppiman
Ppiman
in reply to DIB69

I can't find evidence that clinical deficiencies are common in the West. If you can point me to some, I'd be grateful.

This is an excellent review of the "state of the art" as far as I can tell. The section on magnesium is illuminating:

apps.who.int/iris/bitstream...

Steve

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secondtry
secondtry
in reply to DIB69

Taken a very healthy (excuse the pun) interest in food for some time now. Its not the food you buy it is how it is produced that is most important e.g. Meat from an intensive system is usually very bad news, the same meat all organic pasture fed is usually very good news etc

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Reply

I think it's worth mentioning that if you have compromised kidney function you should not take Magnesium without speaking to your doctor. I have this problem and contacted Dr Sanjay Gupta who suggested I try the oil spray topically. I didn't find it that good and am in permanent AF now, but strangely feel better than when in PAF.

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coco19

You may be interested to read Drug Muggers which identifies which vitamins and minerals are depleted by common heart BP and cholesterol drugs and therefore should be supplemented. Regards

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jeanjeannie50

Will certainly have a look at this, thank you for that info.

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secondtry
secondtry
in reply to coco19

Thank you!!

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Mollybear

Interesting correlation. I had my 25OHD level checked earlier this year and it was up to 78ng/ml, which made the doctor super happy. Perhaps that is another reason why I have made it through 11 months now without any episodes. Below 12ng/ml is considered deficient by most labs, and they say the normal range is 20 to 50, but my cardiologist wants the levels above 50ng/ml.

I took his advice and do 20 minutes per day of as much skin exposed as possible without any sunscreen. I have lots of sunny, warm days in Texas.

No way you can get enough from food - has to be the sun and supplements to get a high enough level in your bloodstream.

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sendit2al

I found too much vit E increases my tinnitus.

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