After my shower this morning and noticing that the new deodorant I was using announced on the front that it was aluminium, paraben and alcohol free, I felt quite pleased with myself for buying it. Having three other deodorants I decided to look at the ingredients in them too. To my horror I saw that two contained coumarin - otherwise known as warfarin!!!!
I'm now wondering if this could be why my INR levels are always up and down? Could it also have an effect on those taking the newer tablet DOAC's?
One things for sure, I'll be down the health shop in my town as soon as I can, to buy a deodorant free from nasty contents.
Jean
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Cinnamon contains coumarin, a powerful blood-thinning agent. Warfarin, the most commonly used blood-thinning drug, is derived from coumarin. Chinese cassia cinnamon contains a much higher coumarin content than Ceylon cinnamon. Taking coumarin-rich cinnamon on a long-term basis can, however, cause liver damage.
Well it's been in both my deodorant and in the cassia cinnamon powder I put on my muesli. I expect the makers of Warfarin would say that no one has mentioned it before, so it must be ok.
Cinnamon is supposed to be good at reducing blood sugar levels, unfortunately most of the commercially available cinnamon is Chinese, and high in coumarin, it's probably cheaper...
The only source I have locally of Ceylon cinnamon is from Waitrose and it comes as sticks in the spices area, so I have to grind it into powder before use, but that's no real problem.
Yes, all well thanks Paul. Feeling better than I have for ages and wondering if it's because I've lost a stone in weight. I remember BobD saying how much better he felt when he lost a stone.
I never over eat now. When I have my evening meal (always cooked fresh by me), if I feel I cant eat all of it I save it for next day. Not that anyone (me) who's just eaten half a pack of Jaffa cakes can brag about how little they eat!
I don't see the point in deodorants, I know as an asthmatic some spray deodorants used by others nearly choke me with their fumes.
Perspiring is a natural process (to help keep us cool mainly) . You can block the glands that produce perspiration which is not health, you can mask the smell and get an unpleasant mixture of scents , or you can wash frequently with warm water and a good quality soap. I choose the latter.
Incidentally only stale perspiration has an unpleasant smell, 'fresh' perspiration containing pheromones can be very attractive My late husband was a cricketer and the jumper he discarded during a match containing fresh perspiration smelt heavenly ...
I agree with all you've said doodle, could have written that myself.
As I shower every morning I sometimes go without deodorant in the winter if I'm staying at home that day. If I didn't live at the top of a very long and steep hill, I think I'd not bother. I have to say I really don't like the smell of sweat.
Thanks for the info Jean. Stopped using deodorants several years ago after my neighbour who had been diagnosed with breast cancer had been warned off them!! Yet another thing to think about!It’s quite frightening really!
I rarely use a deodorant these days after reading about the link to breast cancer. I recently tried an “all natural” doders and came out in an awful itchy rash. Better to wash more often IMO.
I'm thinking now that what you say may be the correct thing to do. What with parabens, aluminium and other chemicals already on the not good list. Yep it's just going to be soap and water for me from now on.
Buy a deodorant stone. They are fantastic. Haven't used anything else in years. It's a crystallised salt and it stops the bacteria from breeding (which is what causes the smell. You still perspire, it just doesn't smell. Keeps me fresh all day. They are scentless and all natural. And I don't care what others say, sweat smells horrid very quickly if we have clothes on and are not aired as it were.
This is the one I use. I get it from the supermarket.
I use this too and have stopped having rashes and feel safer. I am sure I don’t smell...though I am ancient and don’t sweat much,except when I am nervous.
I have not used deodorant for years except when I gave dance performances in a vain attempt to stop my sweat staining the armpits of the silk choli that was part of the costume! I also try to avoid body lotion/hand cream etc and only use them if my skin feeks dry and itchy. Sometimes I use food grade argan oil. All these toiletries contain chemicals that just add to the chemical soup we wade in these days. Sweating is good for us and anti perspirants are perverse. I was reading an article not long ago about people who had stopped washing altogether and claimed they no longer smelled!
Yes Auri...I’ve got a lanolin bush at the bottom of my garden. I’m hoping it will develop into a lanolin tree. I get lovely bubbles and lather in the rainy season. I just fall into the bush and come out lovely and clean.
Three positive effects of suffering from AF are: lost seven kilos without trying to, my pseudo psoriasis stopped without realizing until recently and I dont transpire anymore. However, I would trade all these by the horrible symptoms of AF. and the side effects of the meds.
I stopped using deodrant 11 years ago after being advised by breast cancer nurses, not sure if deodrant contributed to my cancer but I am not taking any chances! My grown up children would certainly tell me if I needed deodrant and as yet, thank goodness they have not told me to do so! As long as you shower every day there is no problem.
Napoleon told Josephine not to wash because he was coming home! Most deodorants contain Aluminium which is not a good idea. I use the Bionsen stick one which is supposed to be aluminium and Parabens free and does not put a propellant into the air. Don’t think sprays are good for either you or the planet.
I too use the Bionsen stick deodorant and have done so for over 15 years,. Works well and a pleasant fresh smell.Love that it has no propellant, aluminium or parabens.
One of my deodorants with it in was Bionsen. I'm giving up on using them for a while. Who knows there's also a chance my foggy brain will clear too. I could turn out to have a degree of intelligence.🤪
Hi Paolina it sounds like some soap and water wouldn't go amiss ...For me an armpit in my face wouldn't be improved with the use of a deodorant adding to the smell .
Yes, I read about cinnamon too. I do buy the best quality one from my health food shop but am unsure if that's ok. I add it to my breakfast muesli alternating each day with ginger. May just stick with the ginger each day as I prefer that anyway.
I have loads of cinnamon. Well, I guess a level to rounded teaspoon at the most most days. I bet you'd need to take loads for it to make an impact like warfarin. Wonder how we can find out?!
I make my own granola with cinnamon and ginger but very small amounts . Even so the smell is very strong when it's baking in the oven. I also use cinnamon and ginger along with cumin in north African dishes. I suppose it's the amount you use that makes a difference to anticoagulation but it seems hard to come by info on this.
Thanks for this Jean jeanieand also all your other very generous sharings.
I always sort of knew things could be absorbed through the skin, but I only really took it on board when my GP prescribed some ibuprofen gel - usually forbidden to us on anticoagulants - for a painful flare in my hands and wrists, oh joy, it took the edge off and I was impressed. Just by chance I decided to try to replace my deodrant with an organic one I saw mentioned somewhere. It's called Fit Pit made by The Green Woman; it works OK but I don't sweat much anyway. Just checked former deaodrant, a Mitchum roll- on and found it contains coumarin; probably tiny amounts, but day in day out? Not a good idea I think
Yes, one of my deodorants containing it is a Mitcham roll on. Apparently coumarin is used to make things smell nice and is in all sorts of toiletries, perfumes and household items. You live and learn!
Hey JJ...you always know that it’s a rodent trying to get in your house, when there’s a ‘Ratatatat’ at the door. Tell Elli that one, he really loves sick jokes...he’s an Essex lad.
After having breast cancer I too went for an Aluminium free deodorant thinking that the two things could be linked, after all our skin ingests whatever we put on it, even more pleased I did so now!
I bought some Dove aluminium free deodorant/anti perspirant?....doesn't say which one the label, but I can affirm that it doesn't work....anybody know of one that does work?
I stopped using aluminium based ones because of the link between aluminium levels and Alzheimer's.
yes it is banned by FDA. They were looking at it being included in food as they found it caused liver damage in cats and dogs. It is also banned in Canada where it can't be added directly to food although it is found in many foods which are legal to use such as carrots (trace quantities) and something called tonka beans. Some people will be susceptible to issues caused by coumarin even in quantities considered to be safe but no way of knowing who will be affected. It is even used in some perfumes, body creams such as Vaseline body lotion. It is very widely used cos it smells nice.
Oh dear Jean! A good job you looked. I decided some years ago that deodorants were not a good idea after reading an article that blamed them for all sorts of nasties, so I rely on soap or simply pong a bit until I can get clean. Probably anything we use stands a good looking at!
Aside from the deodorant effect, my mother and her brother Bob both took warfarin for many years and Bobs INR was as stable as it could be however mums was unbelievably unstable.We never got to the bottom of it but suspected food as the main suspect. It was either that or his regular dose of Scottish water he loved so much.
We are all very different and you might be guessing for years trying to work out just what it may be caused by.
With respect to many deodorants nowadays they are 48 hr or 72 hr deodorants. Its only within the last year or so that I have cut my usage in at least half by only using them every second or third day, or maybe only when I'm going to the shops/doctors etc (essential journey 🙂) Cost effective too!
Coumarin not an anticoagulant??? Maybe it has to be converted to something else first?
Structure - Activity Relationships
Coumarin and 4-hydroxycoumarin do not possess anticoagulant activity. Link, who pioneered the isolation and characterization of bihydroxycoumarin (dicoumarol) from sweet clover, concluded that the minimal requirements for anticoagulant activity are 4-hydroxy group, a 3-substituent, and a bis molecule (see below).
That is so interesting, thank you for posting that. When I broke my wrist last year, I couldn't use deodorant under one arm and so didn't bother. And I realised that it didn't make a bit of difference; somewhere along the ageing path I had stopped perspiring and I don't smell either. I was in Spain at the time and it was still very hot. I don't use it at all now.
My younger daughter who has just had a baby is always desperate for a shower; we are in a bubble and the minute I arrive she dashes to the bathroom, she claims she smells. I am not aware, but that is something else that has gone with age, my sense of smell! But she is where I was some years ago, putting on deodorant was as natural as cleaning my teeth, I just don't know when my body changed.
Just really surprising how some of us reached the same conclusion. Makes one think of how many other daily rituals we go through that are totally unnecessary!
I really don't know! I am quite scrawny and in the past few years have felt the cold much more, it takes a really hot day for me to bare my arms. But even when we are in Spain and it is really hot I might break out on my face but nowhere else.
Deodorant stones are the way forward! I've used them for years. Nothing in them but a natural crystallised salt that stops the bacteria from forming that creates the smell. Back in the days when I could exercise, I could go a full day and not have any of that nasty old sweat smell appear. They just kill the bacteria. I still perspire, which is healthy. I hate the smell of sweat and I'm very good at noticing it in others as well as myself.
The other alternative is to wash, dry and apply some coconut oil and rub it well in. That seems odd at first, but it works. Same principle, there are antibacterial properties in coconut oil. Plus you get lovely soft skin under your arms. You don't need a lot, but enough to tell it's there, rub it in your hands first. It doesn't mark your clothes. I've used it as my only deodorant in hot countries when I didn't want to take lots of toiletries. It's a great skin moisturiser too, so one pot does the lot.
Hi FancyPants. I have also used the salt stick deodorant for decades. As I like a bit of perfume smell (natural not chemical) I put a few drops of lavender essential oil on afterwards which also gives a bit of lubrication too.😊
Check your spelling and if it is coumarin look it up on Wikipedia. It is not a blood thinner, like Coumadin, which is another name for warfarin. “Coumarin is a colorless crystalline solid with a sweet odor resembling the scent of vanilla and a bitter taste.[1] It is found in many plants, where it may serve as a chemical defense against predators. By inhibiting synthesis of vitamin K, a RELATED compound is used as the prescription drug warfarin – an anticoagulant – to inhibit formation of blood clots, deep vein thrombosis, and pulmonary embolism.[ the related compound is Coumadin.
Warfarin – a coumarin – with brand name, Coumadin, is a prescription drug used as an anticoagulant to inhibit formation of blood clots, and so is a therapy for deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolism.[2][26] It may be used to prevent recurrent blood clot formation from atrial fibrillation, thrombotic stroke, and transient ischemic attacks.[26]
If you wear merino wool under clothes you can go out for a good days walk without deodorant, and come back nice and warm and smelling quite fresh. If you wear 'technical ' wicking vests. etc, they come off your back absolutely stinking and so do you. The only trouble is the moths agree completely and get really stuck in, given half a chance
Warfarin is derived from coumarin, a sweet-smelling anticoagulant (blood-clotting) chemical found naturally in sweet clover and many other plants. I mentioned the name Coumadin as we have a lot of members here from the U.S. and that's the name they know Warfarin by.
Who knows what the amount is? My INR is always up and down and drives me potty.
It went up to 8 a few weeks ago. I wasn't well for a while, had an infection in my gallbladder, so stopped taking it right away and two days later tested INR again and it was still 8. My GP appeared to understand what was going on. She wanted me in hospital and I refused to go, it's a long story that I may tell here one day.
Jean
You don't need aerosols for your pits. Try this; next time you shower rub a decent slice of lemon on your pits. Make sure to squash the juice against your pits. You will notice ZERO BODY ODER for upto 3x days. You will still sweat but there will be no BO. The acid on the lemon juice kills the bacteria in your pits, therefore when you sweat there is no bacteria to create that stinky smell.
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