I thought I would just pass this on. There are lots of people not turning up for their vaccination appointments which means that unless the teams can find people at very short notice lots of doses are being wasted. My 27 year old son who's girlfriend is a nurse got a call Saturday afternoon to say they had two doses left over due to no shows and did he and my other son want to shoot down and have them. Job done but WHY? I know of several other people around the country who have had similar out of order jabs due to no shows. What is wrong with people?
Don't waste your vaccination - Atrial Fibrillati...
Don't waste your vaccination
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Careful RobertD, we cannot have you making controversial posts! 😂
queseyo in reply to
May I, please. I often contemplate if it would be wise to start teaching “consciousness” to “humans” from kindergarten time. The difficult may be: how to find “teachers” who are “conscious” of “conscience” to begin with. Thanks.
The bit I don’t understand is that they have obviously gone through the process to make a booking so you have to assume they are pro vaccine to have done that so as you say, why not show up and get the job done. Unexpected things can happen of course, but it does seem to happen a lot.......
Singwell in reply to
We get assigned an appointment - maybe they didn't change it? Not an excuse. So irresponsible, no sense of social responsibility. My opinion...
Desanthony in reply to
On my booking form there was a number to ring if you couldn't make it to the booking as booked but initially when I called it it was not inservice - this was back in February since then my wife has called it and it is working so early on there could have been problems getting a message to the centre but not now. One weekend at our centre there were 60 no shows - now that's a lot and can imagine that quite a few of those doses were wasted. I just can't understand people.
Auriculaire in reply to
Maybe they are ill? Unluckily caught covid before they could get the jab?
It’s so wrong that people don’t show. It happens at normal GP appointments too. People either forget or too ignorant to cancel! So annoying.
I gather that people are making an appt at the big hubs then when their GP contacts them they change to a local one but forget that they already have the hub one to cancel.
But this is a GP centre not a general hub!
That's unforgiveable then Bob. i just don't understand people.
If we could answer the ‘why’ question - who would we be and what would we be?
Just look at the number of NA (Not attended) medical appointments period. I just think it’s rude not to cancel the appointment if you don’t want it, happened to me a lot in practice and I got a lot of ‘oh I didn’t realise I had to cancel’. Well that all changed - when l got people to pay up front - guess what - not one NA in 3 years!
That is a downside of the NHS - people see it as a right rather than a privilege and therefor don’t value what we have, until of course we think we might lose it!
And I think it's even more than that - for decades we've become reliant on pills and procedures to 'fix' us and have taken too little care of ourselves and our lifestyles. We have to be our own health advocates. AF teaches you that big time.
Too true Cdreamer. I used to run clinics in various GP surgeries around the city. It was a rare day indeed when everyone turned up.
The DNA (did not attend) rate was as high as 25% in some departments. What a colossal waste of money.
Because our amazing NHS is free there seems to be an ‘easy come easy go’ attitude. I bet this isn’t the case in countries where you have to pay.
Some people just don't care do they! Incredibly rude when it's being given to you for free.
Perhaps its not easy to get a message through to the centre where they're being given. Another reason could be elderly people having falls or going into hospital suddenly for various reasons. The trauma could take planned vaccine appointments right out of their heads.
That sounds quite likely Jean. All the people I know are/ were very relieved to get their appointments so no question of deliberately not turning up
They are currently dealing with people who are NOT elderly Jean (55-60) so that excuse doesn't work. Either that or I have been elderly for the last twenty years and not noticed.
The centre I went to doesn't give a phone number and the 119 number is very difficult to get through to so cancelling or changing appt can prove problematic.
My sister is 61 and she's just been asked to make her covid vaccine appointment.
Last Friday she fell while out for a walk and has broken her kneecap and is bruised and grazed all over, she narrowly missed falling into the sea. Her leg is now in some sort of huge contraption from thigh to lower leg, she can't bend it and has crutches. This morning she rang our GP's surgery to see if someone could go to her house to give her the jab and was told no. Yet, I know my doctors have been helping at the vaccine centre so are quite able, as I'm sure all the nurses there are. She's 6ft tall so it's going to be nigh on impossible to get her into any car with her leg being kept straight.
What is the big deal with home visits when it's really necessary!!!
in reply to jeanjeannie50
Yeah its crazy. I dunno where you are but here they're doing the roll out at large event venues...like where you'd go to see a concert. They're not at local clinics. and the transport has been stopped in many areas making it impossible to go anywhere for many isolated people who don't drive or are elderly. The public health nurses have all had their jab and should be able to do house calls for those who can't get out and about due to underlying conditions. Its nigh on been impossible to get anyone out such as home help even charities. My aunt has two broken vertebrae and should have home help and at home visits but the system is broken. There are no taxis working where we are and trains cancelled so unless you hitchhiked ...they should at least give her ambulance transport ...they used to have an ambulance for disabled people to go the the day center for leisure activities once a week and to go for check up appointments that's broken down here as well it seems. If they offered me an appointment there would be no way for me to get to it. I can't even get to my aunt to take care of her the poor woman is lighting turf fires with a broken spine!!! No laundry!her kitchen has needed a workman for a year so no kitchen. Its all messed up.
jeanjeannie50 in reply to
That sounds hard for your aunt to have to put up with.
It must have been a great worry for some elderly people as to how they were going to get to their vaccine centre. In this area it was 8 miles away from where I live and not on a bus route. Ok for those like me that drive, but not others. How did they get there I wonder? I'm in Devon in the UK. X
in reply to jeanjeannie50
Thanks yes it has been worrying all round being trapped. But at least she's OK. I feel most for those who's partners and loved ones are in hospital and they can't visit. That is just heart breaking. So we are lucky. and trains are back online on Thursday! I have my ticket to go and see her I've packed the house up and we are bringing the dogs in case we get locked down again up there. And we can at least do her chores and things to help out. Thank goodness for trains.!
bassets in reply to
I hope everything works out with your poor aunt, and nothing else goes wrong.
My wife was a home carer in the community for many years but gave it up in 2019 as she was burnt out. Its not as if the pay was any good considering how much studying she had to do to get her NVQs . We are better off now without her working because the money we save on food now is far more than what she was earning as she can cook proper food rather than buy ready meals. !
She was regularly given appointments five minutes apart when the journey (even in her road rocket) was twenty minutes so was always playing catchup none of which was ever paid time so if she was out of the house for nine hours she maybe got paid for six at best. Sorry for all those people who she no longer helps who loved her but she couldn't go on any more. The staff turnover in home care is huge.
Rant over.
in reply to BobD
Oh my god that's ridiculous. I've noticed a lot of the home helps carers are pretty elderly themselves with bad backs and health issues. And they're not allowed to do so many things. Which is fair enough. But if it paid well fit young women and men might go into the industry and be of more use. Not that I'm sure your wife was useful but I'm sure she would be more useful if she had time to do what needed doing rather than the time management bullcrap. They didn't need that when the nuns ran things they somehow managed to manage themselves and their patients without a stop watch. I mean they drain the joy out of such a vocation ...same for teachers and nurses. They're caring qualities are crushed by the beaurocratic nonsense. You're entitled to rant I'm sure she loved her job and her patients if she was just allowed to run things in a sensible manner she might have continued. I don't blame her.
My sister who is 80 with bowel cancer can't get an appointment at her GP surgery and even their letterbox has been locked. As she says there must be someone in to keep the place running so messages and vital home visits must be going on - she only need s a prescription, and is still willing to go and pick it up! I hope your sister can get her vaccine soon...
I broke my kneecap 2 years ago, and had to wear one of these awkward contraptions too. No medic would visit me either, and getting into the car with it on was a sight to behold. A home visit seems to be an impossibility these days, no matter how incapacitated you are, and it isn’t right. I can’t see the problem.
Meanwhile my husband who received his over 55’s vaccination letter Saturday only to find he has to wait for four weeks for a jab at the local vaccination centre or drive a 66 mile round trip to get a jab sooner even though he has recently had spinal surgery. And no no one seems to care or offer an alternative for him.
Perhaps he should sit outside the local centre and grab a jab when someone doesnt bother to either turn up or cancel, its infuriating.
Strangely my wife who is 64 is still waiting having had the letter on 25th Feb . I dropped a note in today when I went for my anual review and she got a call to say that they were behind and to hang in there. The NHS centre offered otherwise is and hour and half away (no decent roads down here) so waitng is all we can do Dee. We have told Mikey's friend she is available any time if they have any more no shows.
Yes its bound to be extra difficult now that there are more categories on the go and second jabs to accommodate too. Guess it may get more difficult still before things ease. Onwards and upwards we will get there.
My wife is 61 and has 4 Respiratory problems so has been shielding for all this time and still hasn't had a call. If our GP surgery had any no shows we could walk there in quarter of an hour. We have rung twice about this but still nothing. Apparently they were short of vaccines in Wales last week so that may have meant they couldn't make qppointments but we were told that they now have millions of vaccines again. All we can do is wait because we don't want to keep badgering them - just hoping we get a call or letter soon. I had my jab back in early Feb due to age I wonder will i have had my second jab before my wife has her first one? We have phoned the hub and GP surgery both said they would sort something out but that was two weeks ago.
Both my son and daughter in law were called in because of no shows and that too was a GPs surgery.
I don't feel like going - I'm too busy to go today - I'm thoughtless - I'm selfish - the bl***y list is endless. Infuriating when people who really need to be vaccinated are waiting.
Agree, Bob, no excuse for people not turning up - choice is one thing but not turning up for a pre-arranged appointment is both rude and wasteful (unless there is a good excuse). My daughter, who is a nurse, only got offered her jab at the end of a vaccination clinic, because some of the Pfizer vaccine was left!
Let me assure you that no jabs are wasted. They are all used , in situations as you describe. But there are also genuine ones left over as we are often getting more shots out of the vials than expected
God I can’t wait for mine over here in France.......it’s crazy not to turn up, but I think folk do that with doctor and hospital appointment too.
Very odd to book your place, or accept offer of a place and not go. If you change your mind ,day so !It's similar to the DNA dud not attend at other places such as dentist,GPs etc 🙄
At the least bad manners!
How can people be so unthinking?
Need more publicity on this nationwide .
I know of two people that have tried to cancel because of problems getting to the vaccine centre and have been unable to get response. Should be a dedicated cancellation number
Should be like my dentist if a no show then fee to pay
It's the modern mind set of a significant minority, one that seems to be fuelled and fanned by social media allowing negativity and cynicism to run riot. I've no time for it and see it as more pernicious than it is useful.
The vaccines are the way forwards for us all.
Steve
That's a bit of a blanket statement. There are some people who for medical reasons cannot be vaccinated. Also here in France people who have had covid are not being encouraged to get vaccinated yet as the scientific authorities here consider that having had the virus offers as good if not better protection as the vaccine given the current state of knowledge.
Well, I do take your point, but I would have thought that it is understood that there are always going to be mitigating circumstances for the very few. Some things can be taken as said, surely?
As for relying on disease-induced immunity, well, I would be more shocked if that were your government's policy than I was when M. Macron made his foolish pronouncement about the Oxford vaccine, a vaccine that has now been shown, even after a single dose, to prevent hospitalisation.
It looks as if we still get a cold after we've been vaccinated, but we won't die of the cold.
Steve
In the short term disease induced immunity is not to be sniffed at. There is no data at the moment as to how long the immunity conferred by the currently available vaccines lasts. You seem to be have disregarded the word "yet" in my post. Moreover immunity conferred by having had covid will result in antibodies against the entire virus and not just certain proteins in the spike. There is no certainty that the current vaccines will give good protection against the variants anymore than having had the original infection - particularly the Brazilian one that appears to be able to reinfect. I hope the vaccines are the way forward but I have not got your confidence. Especially given the way the vaccine trials are being run . Both Moderna and Pfizer are giving vaccine to the people in the placebo arms as a reward for taking part! Given that the trials are not due to end till late 2022 this seems very unscientific. What is the point of a placebo arm if you are going to trash it less than halfway through the trial?
I doubt that anything unscientific is happening, having worked in pharmaceuticals for many years, it really isn’t like that. Despite the cynicism some show against “Big Pharma”, the truth is far more mundane and boring: just people doing their best, but the scientific method reigns supreme.
But I did miss the “yet” - sorry. I can’t see for the life of me why our government does what it does at times. People who have had covid or the vaccine can be cavalier in life once again, it seems.
The vaccines are as good as the disease so far as I can understand and I can’t see why they wouldn’t be given my limited knowledge of these things but having read what I can.
Steve
I do not think one can be cavalier- I think some sort of social distancing and mask wearing must continue for a while yet. But I cannot see that giving vaccine to people in a placebo arm is right if the trial is still ongoing. How on earth can there be any middle or long term data on possible serious side effects ? And I am cynical because court cases have shown umpteen times that profit comes before all else in Pharma . Pfizer were fined 1.3 billion dollars for lying about 13 of their drugs in their publicity . There might be lots of people doing their best for humanity at lower levels but at the top it's shareholders dividends that count.
Yes - marketing has been blamed and the law brought to bear. But doctors aren’t fools and don’t have to act as if they are. Too many often seem to, sadly. As do patients who put their GPs under great pressure to give a Rx. I don’t fully agree with your reading of the evidence but the US system has its weaknesses.
Steve
So does death.
So does death what? The vast majority of people do not die from covid - those who get it for the first time. More than one third of people infected do not even realise they have it. I am not claiming that it is not a very nasty virus but the average age of death is over 80. People over 80 die of all sorts of stuff all the time. It is not unreasonable to tell younger or middle aged people who have had covid to wait to get vaccinated . My sister had covid back in October . She said she had had worse respiratory illnesses in the past. She got her first AZ jab a couple of weeks ago and had a very bad reaction. She said it was as bad as having the covid all over again but for a shorter period.
I’d say that this use of statistics is wrong in such a case. Nurses and doctors I have spoken to have seen many younger people succumb to this disease. In four families I know of, at least one member in each has suffered fearful, nay petrifying, nights of anxiety with breathlessness.
What underlying health conditions did they have? My ex doctor in England 's son has been in ICU for over a month now. Along with his dad . He is 35 but very obese and type 2 diabetic. And Asian so probably deficient in vit D. She had covid but has not been hospitalised .
I didn’t ask. One has asthma but was otherwise a healthy father of four under 50; one has no known illnesses and is a strapping chap of 38 who went through hell with fear thanks to the breathlessness one night; one was a slim, healthy 72 year old who was sent home from hospital after breathlessness but recovered then who went downhill over just two days.
Your comments remind me of my brother. He takes a seemingly similar laissez faire attitude. His daughter had it early on and was made very anxious by her breathlessness, but he ignores that aspect and puts it down to her anxiety.
No. This is an awful illness simply because it can be indiscriminate and overrun the health services so quickly and easily. Until we can identify those at risk or vaccinate people, we will do well to tread very cautiously.
Steve
Research here and in America has identified people with blood group A as being more likely to catch the virus and do worse. Apparently their blood is more prone to clotting. I am not laissez faire. I am much in favour of people increasing their natural immunity with lifestyle choices . I am also in favour of treatment options such as Ivermectin and intravenous vit C being used more widely . The latter has been used widely in China and there are studies on the usefulness of Ivermectin as both treatment and prophylactic being done all over the world in poor and medium income countries. But not rich ones . India where many states use Ivermectin has a much lower death rate per million than America or most of Europe.
My good friend and her husband have both died of Covid . Both teenagers in the family were hospitalised needing oxygen support. Personally I don’t think we should risk ourselves or others lives by not having a vaccine but clearly it is a free country and everyone has the right to their own decision. My concern is for those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons and for those who’s immune response is not sufficient. Those people will always be at risk while a proportion of the population choose to remain unvaccinated. My friends were probably weeks away from their jabs when they contracted covid. X
Until there is enough data to show with certainty that vaccination prevents transmission you are only risking yourself. The fact that the government is urging vaccinated people not to give up on social distancing shows that there is yet not enough certainty about transmission. On a personal level I would not try to dissuade anybody from getting vaccinated if that is their choice. I belong to a group of people whose health has been badly damaged by a certain class of drugs, who have for the most part been ignored or gaslighted by doctors and for whose condition there is no good medical treatment. Indeed many of the treatments proposed by doctors often make symptoms worse because one of the consequences of floxing is that foods and medicines that were ok before being floxed are no longer tolerated. There are plenty of anecdotes in our community of intolerance to flu vaccines. I myself have had this and no longer get them . At the moment many floxies are worried about getting the covid vaccines especially those who like me are starting to recover and dread doing anything that provokes a relapse. You might have read about the symptoms of long covid. Well the symptoms of Fluoroquinolone toxicity are very similar with the addition of cartilage damage and tendon ruptures. But I do not believe for one moment that our concerns about having the vaccine will be taken seriously by the medical profession or that we will be included in the at risk groups. So I have a lot of reservations about getting the vaccine myself and as yet am undecided.
I totally understand that. My husband was prescribed a medication as a last resort as it could have caused him tendon and cartilage damage. He took it because the consequences of not doing were worse and luckily he is fine. Your decision to wait is an understandable one and I respect your choices but please take extra care of yourself. The main reason I have been so careful during the pandemic is that I know that I don’t think I could manage a severe respiratory disease whilst also coping with a flip flopping heart at a rate of 155bpm. I would probably have to be hospitalised just to enable me to cope. X
We are lucky. We live in a part of France where there is very little virus circulation. Since I finished my physio sessions after my hip replacement I have seen nobody except our gardener once a week ( outside). My husband shops and there is good mask discipline here. No shop would allow you in without a mask. I don't know if there are exceptions but I am certain that here you would have to produce an official certificate from your doctor certifying exemption. Saying " I'm exempt" would not cut it! My husband caught some virus at the end of 2019. He coughed for about a fortnight and also lost his sense of smell and taste for several days. Despite close proximity I never caught it. At the first sign of any sore throat I take oil of oregano capsules. I have not had an ILI or even a cold since March 2016. I am taking quercetin and already take 3 prescribed medicines that recent research has shown have some efficacy in Covid prophylaxis and mitigation. So I am being as careful as I can .
A friend got sick for several days on her first vaccine; after having a slight case - ie really chills and fever 2 days and 2 days of fatigue, she didn't wait the suggested 90 days for vaccine and had a two day repeat of her covid. But I know some younger folks in their 40's who died....there is no sense to saying it's no worse than the flu because your friends didn't die!
I did not say that. For some people it is no worse than the flu for others it is lethal. I personally know 7 people who have had covid. My aunt died but she was 87 and had advanced Alzheimers. My sister said it was not as bad as some ILIs she had had in the past. My daughter who probably had it in the first wave but did not have a test( as nobody who was not hospitalised got tested then) . She recovered very quickly after I sent her a bottle of Calcifediol drops. Two people who have ended up in ICU but are starting to recover and two people who have been moderately ill.
Both my wife and I have sadly had to stop taking our vitamin D supplement as I got a severe kidney pain and my GP feared it would be a stone caused by calcium deposition brought on by the supplement. It's never recurred fortunately. I have read that excess vitamin D can lead to calcium problems in some people.
Steve
Did you take vit K2 alongside it? Kidney stones can occur from a diet high in oxalates.
No. I took vitamin K a few years ago but stopped. My brother had kidney stones a couple of years ago and a neighbour has just had an operation for bladder stones. Both were advised to take care over their diets and fluid intake. I hadn’t realised that Vitamin D supplements could precipitate stones. I’d been taking 2000iu per day. Now we’ve both had our vaccinations, I feel less worried.
Steve
I think you have probably been unlucky. 2000iu is not a large dose. Plus you should have put up your levels . Lots of sunbathing and sardines instead?
That’s very annoying but probably reflects the problem with missed NHS appointments in general. Either way it’s not acceptable.
There are often good reasons why people dont turn up due to "medical reasons" maybe?.... I would have though this would be undestood ? of course there may be many other reasons for not turning up, maybe they didn't "feel good on the day" ,but either way its their choice........It's simple and good manners to cancel as we probably all have in the past and cancel at the GP or Cardiologist.........I'm not sure there is a facility to cancel one of these appointments as often they are done in a local event place, therefore they have no option other than to just not turn up?
In my case it was because my GP sent me a text on Friday afternoon saying that the center she had booked me into for Sunday did not have my requested vaccine and did I want to cancel my appointment? We don't have mobile reception in our village so I did not see her message until Saturday afternoon. I tried to ring the surgery but they are closed at weekends. The phone the GP had used did not accept return calls or texts. So on Sunday I just stayed home. I could have driven to the center and told them I did not want the vaccine they were using but either way they would have had a dose over.
All the best
Roy
I have moved to Ireland and informed my GP. They have now sent on my records. Yet I was given an appointment. I rang and cancelled and explained. I have since had 4 missed calls and three letters from NHS reminding me. There is no number to call to ask them to remove me. I am tempted to go over but of course can’t travel 😢. So not always patient’s fault.
in reply to Dodie117
My experience after many years working in IT is that whenever there is widespread non-compliance or "irresponsible" behavior it is always, always down to poor system design: appointment lists compiled from out of date database extracts; no proper way to "close the loop" so you know that the communication was received by the intended patient; no way for people to effectively update the authorities of unavoidable changes in their circumstances. We have seen multiple examples in this thread of exactly that.
I'm sure there is a small element of irresponsibility but in my experience it ifs often quite minor - the majority of people will do the right thing if you make it possible (or, preferably, easy) for them to do so and explain the expectations.
I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of this problem can be sheeted home to politicians who did a half-baked job of specifying and funding the system and medical administrators that were under-resourced and battling with lack of transparency and clear communication.
In Australia we are running well behind the UK and we keep being told by the pollies that its all fine and the rollout has been intricately planned to run smoothly. I call BS: there are already issues showing up that can only be put down to inadequate planning and we have barely started. Our rollout is about to move to phase 1b (may not correspond to the UK definitions) when selected local GP surgeries will start administering the jab and our local doctors (normally very competent) still cannot say what is happening and are completely in the dark on timing and numbers - how can they be expected to deliver a smooth program in that circumstance?
Enable people and they will often surprise.
I have just recieved a text message from the NHS telling me they have made me my first and second vaccine......why do they presume i want it?....there is no facility to reply to the text and no contact number either, thats probably why some people dont attend appointmentS?
There should be a list for standbys for anyone that can go last minute, I would have signed up for it, if it wasn’t for af I’d still be waiting.
There are many legitimate reasons for no shows. Don't jump to conclusions.
My husband is 67, diabetic with other health issues, he is still waiting to get his first vaccination. I had mine 5 weeks ago and I am in a younger age band but am also clinically vulnerable. I had mine done locally at a centre within walking distance. They apparently are not holding any more clinics at present because 'the vaccine costs more at smaller centres as the big centres order in bulk so it is cheaper'. So we have eventually arranged for him to go to a mass vaccination centre, the nearest one to us means taking 3 different bus services each way and because of getting connections will take up to 3 hours to get to. I wonder if this is why people are not turning up, when they realise that it is going to be so difficult to get to the centres. His second jab cannot be done at the same place, so he is going to have to go to another county which will take more than 3 hours on a minimum of 3 other buses each way.
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