Depression update

[cbsrbpm]

Well the Mirtazipine didn’t work, so have come off them and have to speak to my GP next Monday to see how I have been. In fact I have been awful, can’t stop crying all day and feeling I may have come off too fast. The GP wants to put me on Citalopram, this will be the 3rd drug tried but I am extremely reluctant to do this all over again, more so because I have been getting ectopics back again this week. Has anyone taken Citalopram?

[Padayn01]

Hi cbsrbpm so so sorry you are going through such a really tough time, and on top of that these horrible ectopics are happening. After being diagnosed of AF in 2018 i went through very bad Anxiety and really depressed about my condition, they put me in Citlopram and after the 2nd week i chucked them in the bin, made me 10 times worse. But we all react differently to Anti-Depressants i know this is tough and will take time but try and do it the natural way, i started doing breathing exercises every morning for 10 minutes since 2018, also have natural oils diffuser next to me in my bedroom and try do some breathing with natural oils scented round the room also diet is very important when you are suffering from Anxiety and Depression, i got rid of all the krap, i haven't had a fizzy drink since 2018 stuck to Water, Green tea and natural fruit juices. All this i've mentioned takes time but worth it in the long run

[cbsrbpm in reply to Padayn01]

Thank you for your reply, yes I would rather do this naturally and I am doing everything I can i.e relaxation, meditation,CBT and eating when I can as have no appetite at all. I have already lost over 2 and half stone. Feeling like I have no future. My Son is not at all happy for me to take any more drugs. I am waiting for some counselling but all takes so much time. I am so glad you were able to come out the other side.

Best wishes

Brenda

[Buffafly in reply to cbsrbpm]

My daughter is a carer and gave my husband a good telling off for saying that someone should pull themselves together as she said that the definition of clinical depression as against feeling bad as the result of a bad event as Paday describes was that the sufferer is unable to help themselves out of it. Perhaps if your son does not want you to take pills he would pay for you to be treated in a suitable clinic as an in-patient? I hope you can give the Citalopram a good chance to work and that it does help 💜

[cbsrbpm in reply to Buffafly]

Thanks Buffafly, it is very difficult to get someone who has never had a depressed day in their life to understand. I wish I could explain to him how it feels. There is no reason except it started after 6 months of constant debilitating ectopics, I have everything else I need and feel blessed but it is what it is. Best wishes, keep safe.

[irene75359 in reply to cbsrbpm]

I suffered with severe depression a long time ago and know only too well how insensitive people, even family, can be. Just because you have no visible wound doesn't mean that you aren't suffering pain. No one makes a choice to feel so wretched. Your son obviously takes an interest in your health but he is completely wrong on this count. What I do know is that antidepressants can take some time to kick in, three-four weeks, and whatever you take, please give them time to take effect. I am so sorry life is so hard for you at the moment and am thinking of you.

[cbsrbpm in reply to irene75359]

Thanks for your kind words Irene. Have tried Sertraline (very bad reaction) Mirtazapine (did little for the depression, helped with sleep but very strange dreams also helped a bit with appetite), would really like to sort this out some other way but needs must as they say.

[TenorJK in reply to cbsrbpm]

I have had PAF 25years, Many ups and downs, very sensitive to many drugs inc those you mentioned.I have taken Diazapam off and on and they suit me and keep me functioning,In 1972 I was prescribed 3 x 5mg per day for 2 weeks it did the trick and never had them again till the 90s Dr was amazed, times had changed and 2mg a day prescribed when needed, as he said they were addictive!! At 82yrs does that really matter as long as it helps with day to day living.?

[Hidden in reply to cbsrbpm]

You need to get to the root cause, which is often nutritional deficiencies. Depression is one of the leading causes of referrals for celiac testing in the US, as the inability to absorb nutrients leads to deficiencies in things essential for brain health. Celiac disease and non-celiac gluten sensitivity have both been linked to depression.

Have you had your Choline and B-12 levels checked? Our son was so low in them the doctor said it was a miracle he did not commit suicide.

Check out this list of 10 deficiencies associated with depression. Sadly, doctors do not learn any of this in medical school, nor do most bother to check patients for nutritional deficiencies, nor discuss diet.

Functional medicine doctors have gone the extra mile to learn about it. They often come to believe that they have to do something different after seeing so many patients fail to respond to prescription drugs. And, the irony is many prescription drugs deplete nutrients necessary for a well functioning body.

beatalewismd.com/blog/is-nu...

[cbsrbpm in reply to Hidden]

Thank you Mollybear, very interesting article. The GP has done a complete check on bloods and also virtual colonoscopy. I take B12, D, magnesium and C. I am now realising that Covid is hindering my recovery as my life is not normal as with everyone else. I need to hug my grandchildren and be able to see them even if it is raining. I would take anything to feel better in the morning but by evening I have talked myself out of it again.

[Hidden in reply to cbsrbpm]

What does a colonoscopy have to do with it? To test for Celiac disease you need blood work and an upper endoscopy! It impacts the small intestine, not the colon, but it can also impact the brain, joints, skin, heart and many other systems. The inflammation caused by gluten is often systemic. My new cardiologist insists all his patients go gluten and dairy free and was thrilled to learn I have been since January 2007.

Also, the complete blood work done by most doctors does not check for all the nutrient deficiencies that can impact you. This list in the link below is what I am talking about, not routine electrolytes. Also serum blood levels can be very different than the cellular levels, where the nutrients need to go to be effective.

spectracell.com/micronutrie...

As for depression due to Covid, well my wife and I have been under a lockdown order in our county since March. We have not been to a grocery store, post office, restaurant, barber, salon or any retail establishment since March 9. Our county has different lockdown rules depending on your age. Because we are over 65 we are in the tightest lockdown.

I was finally allowed to see my cardiologist for a non-emergency visit on June 11 and picked up a prescription on June 12. Shortly after that, more lockdowns were instituted and once again non-emergency doctor visits or hospital admissions were shut down in my area thanks to the spread of Covid from the BLM protests and the George Floyd here.

We are doing well mentally, I believe, because we keep our nutrient status up to its optimal level with diet an supplements. Many others in my family are on anti depressants, but they are carb lovers who consume loads of junk food and sodas and refuse to do anything to change their lives through diet. They go out to grocery shop, visit restaurants etc, but feel restricted by the rules imposed by their states and local jurisdictions and claim their depression is worse. They should try living in our county!

I know the diet I am on, and my cardiologist has endorsed wholeheartedly, has changed my heart health with no A Fib attacks in 19 months now/ According to my cardiologist I used to skip every 8th beat and add in an extra one every 12 beats, but my EKG is now absolutely perfect.

The meds I was on for A Fib for many, many years caused nutritional deficiencies as well as massive anxiety. That is gone and I only am left with my PIP that I renew so I always have a fresh supply, but I have had no need to take one in 19 months.

[cbsrbpm in reply to Hidden]

Colonoscopy was because I was having tummy problems and losing weight but all ok so it’s back to the depression. I had an endoscopy last year which disclosed a hiatus hernia. When I can eat I always tend to eat very healthy stuff but afraid I find it very difficult to be as dedicated as you. What country do you live in?

[Hidden in reply to cbsrbpm]

I am in the US.

It was easy for us to go gluten free once my wife and oldest son were diagnosed with celiac disease. Then, my wife, and both sons and I were diagnosed with an allergy to casein, the protein in cow's milk. So, that was not a choice either.

We learned very quickly if we eat the wrong foods we feel awful and the flip side is if we are super careful about our diets, we all feel great. Not a hard choice once you realize how much better your life is all around with the right foods for your particular biochemistry.

One man's food is another man's poison and the American Heart Association diet, low in saturated fat, high in vegetable oils and high in pasta and grains, was definitely the wrong one for us. The doctor said it would be easier for me if the entire family adhered to it. Darn near did my wife in because at the time she still was an undiagnosed Celiac. All of us gained weight and my poor wife just got sicker and sicker. The nutritionist she was referred to put us on the path to health with his testing, diet recommendations and targeted supplementation, all of which makes my cardiologist happy.

[pottypete1]

About 2 years ago I became very very depressed because of constant ectopics even though my AF had by then begun to abate somewhat.

Nothing could make me snap out of it and I tried both hypnotherapy and counselling neither of which helped me sadly.

I think in the end it was time only that helped me. At times however I felt there was no end to the weight on my mind. Only meditation helped me cope with the ectopics.

I am now much better and the ectopics have become less frequent.

Try meditation and slow breathing to counter the negative effects of the ectopics and I am sure that gradually you will get better.

I would resist antidepressants if you can find a way to cope with your own willpower.

Pete

[Padayn01 in reply to pottypete1]

How bad where the ectopics when it was bad?

[pottypete1 in reply to Padayn01]

I lost count but it was probably 100s per day.

Now I just have the odd pause and short fast runs now and again.

No AF since last October.

Pete

[cbsrbpm in reply to pottypete1]

Thanks Pete, I. Was suffering from severe constant ectopics before this depression started and wonder If it was the stress that caused it. I really don’t want to take more medication if I can help it.

[CDreamer in reply to cbsrbpm]

So sorry you are feeling like this. Clinical depression is so hard to cope with as there is no obvious cause or reason. Very little is known or understood about how or why it happens, just that it can - for no reason people can discern and that is why people can be SO dismissive of it and say ‘pull yourself together’ when you feel powerless. It can also suddenly lift - for absolutely no discernible reason.

Counselling, in my experience doesn’t help the depression, but a skilled counsellor may help you to cope and hopefully will go through things like breathing exercises and lifestyle.

Dr Charrerjee wrote an interesting chapter on depression in his book The Four Pillars and also in his TV programme worked with a lady with depression and prescribed wild swimming. Now you may think this a wild bit too far, but it seems to have worked very well for 2 friends of mine, who now wild swim every day and one has even taken up free diving.

There is a growing body of theories about why this helps and this article outlines a few

sciencefocus.com/the-human-...

From my friends’ viewpoint - mother and daughter - they didn’t care but just found it worked and after losing hope and many years of psychiatric treatment found hope again.

Now not everyone is able to walk/drive to the beach or have a cold water lake nearby so the easier alternative is to take cold showers - very cold. I have to be very careful nowadays about cold water shock but I can across this system which really helps me on so many levels.

Warm shower for 20 secs - switch to cold shower for 10 seconds - switch to warm shower for 10 seconds - cold shower for 20 seconds - repeat and keep repeating for several minutes and until you can tolerate standing under cold shower for several minutes. I use this method most days and find it invigorating.

The key to assist the lifting of depression is to get the sleep sorted so wake and get up at the same time of day - that’s really hard for someone with depression. Daily outdoor exercise, best first thing after rising - then the shower routine. Light exposure in the morning and limit light - wear orange lenses - from mid afternoon and no napping. Go to bed at the same time each night. Get the sleep pattern back on track and you are a good way to recovery.

In all my years of psychotherapy practise (I didn’t specialise in depression but it was hard to not come across it every day) THE most affective method of psychological help came from these people - Human Givens - so if you are referred to Counselling - quiz your therapist on their training and knowledge and how they will approach therapy.

humangivens.com/wp-content/...

I do hope that some of this may help and please feel free to PM me.

Best wishes CD

[CDreamer in reply to CDreamer]

PS:- NOTE from the article:- Depressed and anxious people should NOT have counselling which focuses on the past or is introspective or triggers emotional arousal.

I found this to be so true - only work with someone who keeps you in the ‘here & now and works with and teaches you ‘safe space’ techniques.

[cbsrbpm in reply to CDreamer]

Thank you son much CD for your reply and suggestions, I will look into all this. Find the mornings especially difficult and don't want to get up as it makes the day longer, then the uncontrollable crying starts, poor hubby is at his wits end with me and has more patience than I ever imagined. The strange thing is I feel not bad at all most evenings when I am determined not to try anymore medication and when the morning comes would take anything to feel better.

[CDreamer in reply to cbsrbpm]

That is quite a usual pattern with people who are depressed and when you read the Human Givens article - it will explain exactly why that happens!

[pottypete1 in reply to cbsrbpm]

I meant “try meditation” NOT medication. 😬

Sorry totally conflicting advice I am useless at typing and did not pick up my error until I read CDreamer ’s response just now.

Pete 🤭

[Ppiman]

You'll find a couple of threads elsewhere on this forum from me on my own negative experiences with citalopram. I never suffered like you are doing with depression, and you have my sympathies for what you are going through. Feeling down is a horrible and lonely old thing to have to suffer as no one really understands it and, well, I imagine it's hard work for others who expect chirpiness rather than tears.

Citalopram helps some people, and I'm the only person I know who had such appalling side effects from it (although I've read of others - some here). Normally, I think you should expect 2-3 weeks of worsening symptoms (especially an increase anxiety) before it begins to make you feel better. I think it's worth trying, but expect a month before you know if it will help.

Steve

[cbsrbpm in reply to Ppiman]

Thank you Steve for your reply. There doesn't seem to be much help around at the moment due to this virus. I need to speak to someone face to face but that's not happening so just have to try and get by the best I can. Best Wishes.

[Ppiman in reply to cbsrbpm]

I really wish you well and hope you'll be feeling your normal self soon. Mood swings are a strange things to suffer and cope with. I wish there were better answers than there are.

Steve

[Indersisive71]

I had ciltalapram. When I was going through a worrying time.

I found they made me feel sleepy all the time. Which took my mind of things . After a couple of months I started to feel a lot better . And I weaned myself of it it .It done the job. Hope you get sorted

[cbsrbpm in reply to Indersisive71]

Thank you.

[FrankFrank]

I have used a variety of anti depressant over the years and have found citalopram or escitalopram very similar but escitalopram less side effects.

The first 2 - 3 weeks can make you a bit anxious and a bit wired but it stops so bear that in mind before deciding to stop.It stop feeling anxious quite suddenlyand settles down and lifts mood around week 3 or 4.worth sticking with the entry point side effects as is quite helpful.I work as a mental health nurse and have seen good effects on clients as well as myself.There are obviously others antidepressants but personally quite like this one as not too altering and can sleep ok.You can start on a smaller dose and gradually increase .Give it a try.It is not contraindicated with the usual heart meds.If your on betablockers iIwent for an alternative as they made me feel quite flat in mood

[cbsrbpm in reply to FrankFrank]

Thank you FrankFrank for your information, it’s very much appreciated. Glad it worked for you. I need to get my life back, at my age I can’t afford to waste it. Best wishes.

[Annie2609]

I was on escitalopram/cipralex for a few years on and off. It made me feel better, and helped with the chest pains (vasospastic angina) At that time I didn't have ectopics except once in a blue moon.. Last year I stopped taking them. Two months later I started having daily ectopics. Since then, I tried Bisoprolol, neurofeedback, and also all kind of lifestyle changes. Nothing really helped, I still have the daily ectopics, which make me feel anxious and depressed just like you. I am also getting through peri menopause, which gives me additional symptoms. I thought about going on and trying the natural solutions, but really, I think in the current times, with covid and everything else, it would be very tough to go on like this. I think I will give myself a break, and go back to the old medication which kept me happier and safer.. yes, it might be not the right answer, but really I think we shouldn't put ourselves through so much stress in today's world..

I hope you will find the best solution for yourself. Sometimes is tough to listen to your family, as you trust them a lot, but they might be wrong as well.. nobody knows what you are going through except YOU.

[cbsrbpm]

Thank you Annie for your reply, I am really struggling and get worse every day. Taking so long to see anyone, I have been referred to the local mental Health Unit. Was advised by my EP not to take Citalopram as it interferes with the heart electrics. I wonder if escitalopram is different. I was taking Mirtazapine but that didn’t help at all with the depression. I suffered with constant ectopics for 6 months just before this depression started, I feel for you, they are awful. Now taking 200mg of Flecainide to control them. Wishing you well.

Brenda