A few days’ ago, someone posted a link on this site to a video by a Chiropractor in the US who was saying that AF is linked to nerves in the neck and upper spine and that chiropractic adjustments are the way to go. I watched the video in amazement (50+ minutes) then rang a Chiropractor I have consulted previously about a back problem long before I was diagnosed with AF. He said he has never come across this idea and would want more evidence as you can’t believe everything you read/see. Unfortunately, I have lost the link to the video and would be grateful to whomever posted it previously if you could let me have it again. I have made an appointment to see my Chiropractor tomorrow about another issue but I am interested to know more about his views regarding AF.
Help wanted to recover earlier post - Atrial Fibrillati...
Help wanted to recover earlier post
Be careful about pinning your hopes on such ideas. We are all different and whilst I am sure that it is possible to find a link for some people many others will have no such link. AF is AF and needs no cause I'm afraid and the person who really does find the cause will likely make lots of money.
Thank you, Finvola. You have pointed me in the right direction. It is the same person but a different video. I don’t have time at the moment to see if he is talking about AF in the same way in this one.
I just googled chiropractors and afib and got an immediate hit.
I think it is good to consider something different to the usual plan of continuous drug taking and ablations.
There are people looking at ways of dealing with attacks that are caused by the nervous system. So chiropractor/osteopath might be a good way to go.
This is interesting. I have suffered from severe neck problems for many years - indeed decades and on x ray my spine looks like a bent step ladder at the bottom of the neck. the spinal chord is being squeezed at that point and I do get problems from that - maybe my AF in the last 2 years is also because of this. Worth trying to find out. There is an association of some sort for chiropractors and I was treated by their head man when i lived in Oxfordshire many years ago. It would be a good idea for any one interested in finding out more about this to contact that association to find out if any of their practitioners are researching and carrying out this type of treatment. If any one finds out then do get back to us here and share the information. At present I don't think anything other than an operation would help my situation and there is a high probablility of paralysis after such an operation for me - I have consulted with surgeons frequently so obviously declined their offer of surgery. Now I exercise regularly and keep to a good healthy weight to keep all the muscles strong to support my neck.- and the rest of my body as I also have spinal problems in my lumbar region too.
I’ve had neck problems for over 30 years since whiplash injury and visit a Chiro every months - for maintenance now but I also did a lot of rehab and you are absolutely right in exercise to keep muscle strong to support neck. I was very lucky in that the Chiro I saw had a recap gym attached and a machine which was designed especially for neck rehab which I used for about 5 years. I now continue with Pilates and focus on core strength and found that has really helped. The vagus nerve goes through vertebrae near the bottoms of your neck and I have that adjusted regularly as I certainly found that a misalignment could trigger AF and my Chiro could always stop it. Unfortunately my AF wasn’t always vagal.
If you are interested - chiropractic-uk.co.uk/ Do check out anyone you go see for their registration and creditentials.
That sounds an interesting machine for neck rehab. What did it actually do.
Do you have a makers name for it ?
Hmmm interesting... I did something to my neck many years ago falling off a horse onto my head, fortunately the least sensitive part of my body! Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Chiropractors are not medical doctors.....
Im not a dr either, but that does not keep me from knowing what does and does not work for my body. I know my body better than any doctor I have every seen or been too, including the surgeon I married. Yes we have "discussions" about my medical care and our approaches can, and usually are, extremely different. I prefer the holistic/ natural treatment first and foremost. He does not always have an open mind since his training teaches that medicine and surgery are best. I believe that Anything that gives hope and relief has immense value! The mind is a very powerful tool, and believing is authentic.
Great, I feel likewise. But my point was I would not believe a chiropractor's take on AF. They would have you believe every single ailment out there is somehow related to a spinal alignment issue that can be fixed with a "crack" a couple times a week.
and if it did for someone, if it gave them relief or stopped it, would it be beneficial to them? Lets not poo-poo what CAN work for some because they believe it does. I would definitely give it a try if only for the possibility that it can help, just like the ablation. Only less invasive.
I have monthly appointments with a chiropractor that I consider to be excellent. He has helped me manage lower and upper back pain for several years. When I was diagnosed with AF in the past year, he attempted adjustments for several months to help improve my AF. None of the adjustments had any positive effect/improvement on my AF. That said, you might have a different result. Just passing along my experience.
I have had NOT ONE AF episode since starting with my chiropractor! If you, like me, appear to have AF caused by a parasympathetic response with the vagus nerve, then I highly recommend a chiropractor. You have nothing to loose and the possibility of everything to gain. After a failed ablation and dangerous flecainide causing more severe arrhythmia I have gone from weekly episodes of AF/Tachy to not one in 9 months since my first spine adjustment. I am much happier to be managing my AF with fortnightly thoracic spine and neck adjustments to be avoiding both dangerous medications and intrusive ablation procedures to keep me symptom free.
In Canada and the US chiropractors are medical doctors. They receive as much or more education as do general medical doctors but with a different focus. At least they generally don't prescribe drugs or recommend surgery to get results. Research chiropractors before you make the age old derogatory comment. Chiropractors are no longer put in jail as they used to be in the US. They help lots of people with lots of issues. If the nerves in your spine are compromised, there can be numerous symptoms that medical doctors treat without finding the root cause. We are electrical beings, and just like the electrical we all know, a frayed wire or an intermittent connection will affect the function of the electrical device. So it makes sense that this happens in the body as well.
I have likely learned more about AF and the spine than most people on this site. Getting the spine fixed can be a challenge but this does not mean it does not have a large impact. BobD, from what I remember of your last major AF episode, it is possible when you got up and then bent over an engine on which you were working, that nerves in your spine were compromised and caused the result. The change can just as easily reverse. I suspect cardio version may have something to do with what it does to the spine as what it does to the heart.
Focussing only on the heart and not on the signals from the brain, through the nerves, may one day prove to be a short sighted approach. Unfortunately, the age old bias by medical doctors towards chiropractors limits research in this area.
Apparently, they're not medical doctors in the US & Canada either:
This may be the site for which you are looking:
youtube.com/watch?v=yjRqpwm...
This chiropractor does lots of interesting YouTube videos. Take a look a the ones on blood pressure and cholesterol. It seems that he has a common sense view backed by some facts. Common sense and facts, are, as we all know, indefinite concepts that each of us interpret differently. Mr. Trump is likely the most recent example of a person who demonstrates this.
Thanks, EngMac. This is the link I was looking for. However, I saw my Chiropractor yesterday and discussed this with him. He checked me all over and said I am in good shape “mechanically” and did not feel he could offer me any treatment for my heart condition and that the CRT-P scheduled for 31/10 was probably the way to go.
So I take it you have never tried it then. If 7 people told you that it was successful is reducing their afib from 4x a week to 1x a week or even less. If it works for those 7 people, it is successful, and maybe worth a try. Each of us is different. I am willing to try anything outside of hospitals, regardless of "pseudo-medicine" labels. Open mind to open possibilities. What if, IF it worked for you?
I misspoke. I found the following in the Wikipedia article. They are doctors in the US and Canada but they have their own doctor designation. Medical doctors have a different education and designation. Another example in a profession is that all professional engineers are not one type but they all have engineer in their professional designation.
DegreeFull NameCountry in which it is awarded
D.C. and M.S. (Chiro)Doctor of Chiropractic & Master of Science (Chiropractic)South Korea
B.App.Sc. (clin). & B.C.Sc.Bachelor of Applied Science (Clinical Science) & Bachelor of Chiropractic Science
B.Sc. (chiro) & B.C.Bachelor of Science (Chiropractic) & Bachelor of ChiropracticAustralia
B.App.Sc. (Compl) & M.Clin.Chiro.Bachelor of Applied Science (Complementary Medicine) & Master of Clinical ChiropracticAustralia
B.Chiro.Bachelor of ChiropracticNew Zealand
B.Chiro. & M.ChiroBachelor of Chiropractic & Master of ChiropracticAustralia
B.Sc. (Hons) ChiroBachelor of Science (Hons) ChiropracticMalaysia[10]
B.Tech. (chiro) and M.Tech. (chiro)Bachelor in Technology (Chiropractic) & Master in Technology (Chiropractic)South Africa[11]
D.C.Doctor of ChiropracticBrazil, Canada, France, Mexico, Spain, Sweden[citation needed], United States
M.C. or M.Chiro.Master of Chiropractic or Master in ChiropracticAustralia, Switzerland, UK
M.C.B.Master in Clinical BiomechanicsDenmark[12]
Their education is extensive.
Chiropractic education trains students in chiropractic.[1] The entry criteria, structure, teaching methodology and nature of chiropractic programs offered at chiropractic schools vary considerably around the world.[2] Students are trained in academic areas including scopes of practice, neurology, radiology, microbiology, psychology, ethics, biology, gross anatomy, chemistry/biochemistry, spinal anatomy, phlebotomy, neurology and more. Prospective students are also usually trained in clinical nutrition, public health, pediatrics and other health or wellness related areas.
The entry criteria, structure, teaching methodology and nature of chiropractic programs offered at chiropractic schools vary considerably around the world, although in the United States programs are required to teach specific areas for accreditation purposes.
A 2005 World Health Organization (WHO) guideline states regardless of the model of education utilized, prospective chiropractors without relevant prior health care education or experience must spend no less than 4200 student/teacher contact hours (or the equivalent) in four years of full‐time education. This includes a minimum of 1000 hours of supervised clinical training.[2] Students must pass boards administered by the National Board of Chiropractic Examiners (NBCE) to be licensed to practice in a U.S state or territory. The boards consists of parts I, II, III, and IV, as well as other additional tests required by state or if desired by students such as the physiotherapy exam.
I read the post about chiropractors with interest because there is definitely something going on with my neck and upper spine and my heart. I took myself off to a highly recommended local practice but when they found out I am taking Apixaban they said they are unable to treat me for anything because of the possibility of causing a bleed through their manipulations. I was very disappointed. Has anyone else had this response?
Hi PurpleRaine, They are probably afraid of disrupting arteries in the neck. In vary rare instances, chiropractic adjustments can dislodge clots but it is not thought that the adjustments cause them. I have never been asked by any of the three chiropractors I have visited if I am taking anticoagulants. It could be yours is being very cautious, perhaps because of a clause in their insurance coverage. You may wish to try another chiropractor. And if you get the same response ask the reason why. And if you don't get a sensible one, ask if it is an insurance issue. Sometimes they are not willing to say that this is the reason.
HI Chrystalbowl. Many chiropractors focus on an immediate issue. If you can find a corrective chiropractor, one who looks at your entire spine and treats you accordingly, you may get treatment. It is unusual that you don't have some reason to have an adjustment if you have never had one. Most of us have some misalignment. Look at the link Finvola posted above about corrective chiropractors. Most chiropractors don't think they can treat for AF and in some jurisdictions they are not allowed to say that they can. If you ask, they may tell you this. So you can ask for corrective adjustment; and if, by chance, this helps, you win. If not, you may have eliminated this possible cause.
Hello again EngMac. Thank you for your latest response and for reminding me about Finvola’s earlier post and videos which I have now watched. I did a search for Corrective Chiropractors in the UK and they seem to be thin on the ground. There is a practice in Derby which is a long way from Lancaster where I live but doable by train and I liked the look of their approach so I rang and spoke to one of them and he said he was not aware of any treatment that he could do with regard to alleviating AF and/or HR nor for PHN which I am also in great pain from for the last 9 months. I have had many Osteopath and Chiropractor treatments in the past including from the Chiropractor I saw earlier this week mainly for a lower back problem which, amazingly, has not kicked in this year despite all that I have gone through. It felt good when he told me I was mechanically in good shape as at least something in my health seems to be in good working order!
Why not try osteopathy instead. That is recognised by the medical profession, they have their Charter.
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