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I have not had time to read much on this site of late so am a bit out of date on all the topics being presented.

I am always a bit reluctant to talk about my "test tube of one" experiments with my Scenar device and my chiropractor treatments since they are so not mainstream. Yet, I think I should at least comment from time to time in case others wish to pay attention to any impacts/symptoms they may have from physical positioning. It seems for me that my AF episodes are significantly impacted by physical positioning. Most often, when AF begins, I can stop it by standing and putting pressure on my neck. If I sit in one very expensive lounge chair, I am guaranteed that AF will start in 5 to 10 minutes. Sometime in the car it wilI start but can be stopped by changing the seat position or the lumbar support. For the last week or so, at least now I can sleep through the night which I have not been able to do for a long time since I get up to stop an AF episode. How long this change will last is a crap shoot.

I tried the Scenar treatment for the heart without much improvement. This made me wonder if the problem is the heart. Lately, I have been experimenting with back, joint and vagus nerve treatments. These have changed how my AF behaves. I would say I have achieved some positive improvement but have not been able to eliminate AF. I think I mentioned a chiropractor in Florida says he can cure AF by fixing the neck. I am not near Florida or I would make an appointment to see him.

I will continue to make comments as I continue my experiments. I still have not been able to get an EP appointment; so, unfortunately, I cannot get any advice about this. I have not been able to find any studies supporting what I am trying.

My wife uses the Scenar device more than me and she thinks it helps her immensely.

10 Replies

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  • Hi Engmac, I always enjoy your innovative idea posts. The fact is we need them as we still seem a long way from what might be a simple cure for some Lone Paroxysmal AF.

    I think the neck is very relevant as it is the narrow part most likely to put pressure on the Vagus Nerve (yours may be very sensitive) and hence most likely to set off or stop AF in a direct or indirect way. Can I ask you to expand a bit on " ...stand & put pressure on the neck", how and where on the neck? Does the Florida chiropractor have more info on his website?

    A small thing but when I was having AF, sitting in my favourite chair I needed a couple of cushions to support my neck to feel comfortable. Now AF free and surprise surprise I no longer reach for the cushions when I sit down. I also do not sleep on my left side in bed. Re the sitting room, I used to set AF off regularly by sitting down to relax in the evening, so much so that I avoided doing it.

  • This sounds just like me. I was all comfy on the settee then all of a sudden I notice my pulse rate then the rate increases. This happens most of the time and as a result the only way I can relax is to keep busy. The only other way I can bring it down is go for a brisk walk that seems to do the trick

  • Hi EngMac - I also enjoy your posts and was hoping you would post re Scenar.

    My chiro has been adjusting my neck - he is one of the best - for 9 years with no impact on AF BUT he has both triggered an episode and ended an episode with adjustments in the thoracic region. Had no effect outside of the treatment room so I concluded that yes, chiropractor can stop or start an episode but unless you can carry one in your back pocket, has no long term effect.

    I have recently been having myofaciaial release which is an extremely gentle treatment which works directly with the autonomic system, having good results. myofascialrelease.co.uk/wha...

    The last paragraph is of particular interest when considering the autonomic nervous system.

    Personally I would be very wary of anyone claiming to 'cure' AF or any other condition, be they doctor or complementary therapist but I do believe that taking a wholistic approach can help us be well, even if it doesn't always relieve all of our symptoms.

    I am currently working on diet, seeing a neuro-physiotherapist and a herbalist who works holistically as she is also a trained body worker and physiotherapist, but not practicing as one currently. I am very lucky in that my local MS charity offer reduced costs therapies.

    I am doing much better with weekly Hyperbaric Oxygen Treatment which has definitely helped my heart generally as well as the fatigue and brain fog from the Mg - but again through MS Centre - I pay £9 /session - whereas I know in the US it would be a minimum of $250/session, however, insurance companies love it for some conditions such as burns, diabetic ulcers, PTSD - some States provide it for veterans - as it is a relatively inexpensive treatment, by US standards and often shorten hospital stays or keeps people out of hospital.

    From what you have described it seems posture has everything to do with triggering episodes for you - therefor it makes sense to treat posture. You may not 'cure' AF but you could lessen episodes and not be as symptomatic and it much less invasive than ablation and less toxic than drugs. I found the combination of adjustments, massage and Pilates worked best to restore decent posture but it means hard work. I have a good deal of hypermobility in spine, shoulders, elbows and knees so I go out of alignment very easily. The reason I am having myofascial release is that my chiro believes that now I rely too much on the fascia to keep my joints together, instead of muscles. Unlike muscle - you cannot 'stretch out' fascia.

    Please continue posting, you have 2 fans at least.

    Good luck and don't stop experimenting or searching.

  • may find this interesting - om-pc.biomedcentral.com/art...

    I always can identify my tendency for AF through HRV - unfortunately the Kardia app doesn't record that anymore which is a pain.

  • Hi EngMac, you make mention of xperimenting with back, joint and vagus nerve treatments. What kind and where did you find out about them?

  • 4 fans.

  • Hi EngMac. I have a comprehensive report in front of me from the scan taken just before my cryoablation 4 weeks ago which points out that ....."there is some old anterior vertebral body wedging in the mid-thoracic region" ....I have long suspected this might have some effect on SVT/AF.

    At the onset of this condition 4 years ago I had feinted and must have landed heavily because I have had pain in that region ever since. I have used a naturopath, which seemed to help quite a bit, and was considering trying a "Bowen technique" in the future. In the meantime I do Tai Chi which helps my flexibility and also walk and do arm and neck exercises every day.

    I am fortunate that I have had no more palpitations since the cryoablation.

  • Hi Orchardworker. I use the tips of my fingers on my right hand to caress the right side of my neck with medium pressure. Basically, I just move them down the right side of my neck several times. Sometimes if I walk briskly at the same time this seems to help. I just did a few very simple neck exercises and 5 minutes later my heart started missing beats. I used the pressure and brisk walking for two minutes and my heart rate became normal again. If I do this as soon as the heart starts missing beats, I can usually get it to become normal. If I let the heart continue to miss beats and it goes into AF for a few minutes, I cannot always get it to stop the AF. Then the AF will go on for usually 2 to 4 hours and then stop. If I am active during the day, the heart tends to stay in sinus but not always. Most of the time I notice the missed beats; and if I can do the pressure and brisk walk, I can get it to stay in sinus. I find if it repetitively tries to go out of sinus over an hour or two, then the heart will usually win and go into AF.

    The Scenar device has so many options to try, and without medical direction on what exactly to do (to which I do not have access); and on top of this, what I try may not have an immediate result, finding what works best is a struggle.

    I read this once. The usual saying is " If it works in theory does it work in practice?". In my case it seems this is more appropriate: "If it works in practice, does it work in theory?"

  • Thanks Engmac.

    Due to a cardiologist in the UK (Sanjay Gupta York Cardiology, excellent videos on YouTube) mentioning breathing exercises helps reduce ectopics and many here talk about brisk walks and activity helping plus relaxing and night time being an AF cause, I am coming around to thinking one factor is shallow breathing resulting in less oxygen getting into the system.

    Hence (& because it can do nothing but good) I have started regular deep breathing exercises - holding for 4 seconds & exhaling for 6 seconds during the day and if I wake up in the night. At the very least it is very relaxing but as with all lifestyle changes you have to persevere with it.

  • Hi Andyt36. In the 3 years that I have had AF, I have tried many things. I live in a part of Canada where you cannot purchase private health care for AF treatment and to get an appointment with an EP is a year or more unless you end up in the ER and in bad shape. They tried to kill me once with drug treatment so I am reluctant to let them have a go at me again, until I get to see a reputable EP doctor.

    The latest kick I have been on is chiropractic treatment. Just by chance the chiro I picked off the internet had a device called a Scenar. This "thing", as I call it, is supposed to do many things, including AF treatment. The chiro does some treatments with it as well as back and neck adjustments. My AF symptoms have changed but not disappeared. I purchased my own Scenar device and try lots of treatments with it as well. So far none have got rid of AF if that is even possible. As far as finding out about back and vagus nerve treatments, most of this came from reading on the internet and talking to people, but not doctors, so far, other than my GP and his AF knowledge is very limited.

    I am wondering if one could fix the back and vagus nerve impact at the onset of AF, before the heart gets banged up by AF, whether there might be a better chance of avoiding long term AF. I think, knowing what I know now, if someone just recently learns that they have AF, this someone should explore the back/vagus nerve impact just in case this could be the cause as some chiropractors think.

    I do not have medical training so all my comments you may wish to take with a grain of salt.

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