Hawthorn and Apixaban?

[Alan_G]

A while ago I read with interest the alleged benefit to the heart that the herb Hawthorn provided, especialy for AF sufferers. I've also recently read that it's quite liberally dispensed in Germany. However, I chose not to take it because it was recommended not to take it if you are on beta blockers, such as bisoprolol. This is because it lowers blood pressure and heart rate. Basically, if you google Hawthorn everything said about it seems to be good, but you have to be wary about what other medications you mix it with.

I have now weaned myself off bisoprolol, going from 2.5mg to 1.25mg to nothing. I did this on the recommendation of my GP and because I'm pretty certain my AF is vagal and I saw a video from Dr Sunjay saying that beta blockers can actually trigger AF if your pule is already low(ish), and even off bisoprolol mine is still below 60 at rest.

My reason for this post is that just as I thought it safe to take Hawthorn, I see it also has some 'blood thinning' properties and I'm now worrying it may not be wise to take it with apixaban. However, a site I found did mention the Hawthorn / beta blocker risk, but there was no mention of taking it with anti-coagulants as being as problem.

Some quotes:

"Hawthorn is a well known heart-helper; it's because of its heart healing properties that it can cause problems with blood-thinning medication."

"Hawthorn might slow blood clotting and increase the risk of bleeding during and after surgery. Stop using hawthorn at least 2 weeks before a scheduled surgery."

I can't really ask my GP about this because last time I rang about the Hawthorn / beta blocker scenario, he said he didn't even know what Hawthorn was and I gather GP surgeries will very rarely comment on herbal remedies.

So, is there anybody out there who would care to comment on this or who is already taking Hawthorn and an anti-coagulant?

[Finvola]

Normally, my answer would be to contact your doc but I understand what you are saying about that route.

My first thought too is always to be careful about mixing supplements and prescription meds. From what I understand, hawthorn has properties which may be similar to aspirin - an anti-platelet. When I was prescribed Apixaban I was told to avoid aspirin, therefore I would also avoid anything aspirin-like.

It might be worth while searching in the box at the top right as I think this topic was discussed some years back.

[BobD Volunteer]

I agree with Finvola that supplements need VERY careful consideration. Frankly I would avoid mixing herbs and drugs without careful monitoring as results can be dramatic.

[Hidden]

Take a look at weleda.co.uk

Homeopathic - conventional and anthrophosophical medicine you make like to contact them ...

Carol

[Hidden]

I can’t really say much about hawthorn, I tried it early on about 3 yr ago at the advice of an intragrative doc but it made me feel just as weird as the antiarrhythmic meds do I stopped it. I am hesitant to take supplements as they aren’t regulated well here in the states so you never really know if they are what they claim and what they are mixed with. I use a google drug interaction site to check drug interactions with all my meds as I’ve found not all docs and pharmacists know, or mention interactions much

[CDreamer]

Firstly Hawthorn is not a food supplement - it is a medicinal herb - big difference. The only person who should advise you about herbal treatments is a qualified Herbalist. If you have a branch of Neal’s Yard in a town near you - they will often have a qualified dispensing herbal pharmacist available for brief consultations. Otherwise there are a few herbal chemist shops around and plenty of qualified herbalists.

nimh.org.uk/whats-herbal-me...

[Izzle]

Hi. Many years ago I heard hawthorn was 'good' for the heart but didn't know in what way. I came across it as loose tea and decided to try it. Horrible flavour though.

At the time I was taking warfarin plus a beta-blocker (sotolol or metoprolol). Anyway, the tea had no effect on my PAF frequency/severity and my INR remained stable between 2.0 and 2.4

Then, after 3 months my INR suddenly shot up to over 3.2 in just a couple of weeks, quite an unexpected change. My warfarin was reduced to suit.

Then my source of tea dissappeared plus a long overseas holiday interfered with the tea slurping. So, I gave hawthorn a miss after that and reverted to my normal warfarin dose (much more consistent).

Sorry I can't help any further.

Alan L

[solarjdo69]

Alan,

I have been taking Hawthorne for about 2.5 years now and it works well for me keeping swelling down from my Cardizeim. I also feel my heart is stronger and it acts a lot like my Digoxin did in strengthening the heart pulse. I do not believe or recall in my ferreting out info about Hawthorne many articles that purport or mention possible blood thinning capabilities. I take 3 x 650mg capsules daily at approx. 8 hr intervals.

See this:

superfoodly.com/hawthorn-be...

"Hawthorn berry is not a blood thinner. A study published in the journal Thrombosis Research tested the micronized flowers and leaves in 16 healthy men and women. Aspirin was used as positive control to demonstrate antiplatelet activity. An 800 mg dosage taken 3x daily of hawthorn for 15 days did not demonstrate any effect on platelet aggregation."

draxe.com/hawthorn-berry/

verywellhealth.com/the-bene...

I take other natural blood thinners instead of any prescribed ones such as warfarin which I was on for about 6 months. I weaned off of it and now use a combination of Natokkinase, Vitamin E, Vitamin D# and Turmeric as my blood thinners. I also regularly eat garlic in foods to help add a bit more.

I feel better than I have in years. Originally on Metrolpolol, Cardizeim, Digoxin, Linisopril/ valsartan (tried 1 then the other) and Warfarin! Weaned myself off of those except the Cardiziem and feel great! My BP in recent months is now regularly 135 / 75, 130 / 80 and pulse is regularly between 66 - 78 at rest.

My goal is to lose enough weight and rejuvinate myself and get off of the Cardiziem as well.

[7Helena]

I take homeopathic Hawthorn Crataegus 30c potency which has none of the effects you mention with regards to beta blockers etc. ainsworths.com

[brit1]

having studied herbs quite abit I can say that Hawthorn is safe and is not considered a bloodthinner by professional herbalists. It does help a little with bp but frankly only a little so don't worry about it with beta blockers. The main thing is it helps strengthen the heart. Just remember its from a tree, and the berries were used to make jams many years ago, (sometimes its available as a solid jam-like form )its just a wonderful help for the heart. Often herbs in capsule form don't often work very well (depending on the manufacturer) so its best used in a tincture form or as a tea.

[Alan_G]

Thanks for the replies folks. I didn't realize Hawthorn came in so many forms and I omitted to say what I get. It is Hawthorn Crataegus Drops from A.Vogel and I buy it from a reputable Herbal store. Based on the replies, I shall administer it in moderation and see how I get along. Thanks again

[wilsond]

I make Hawthorne jelly this time of year from my name recipe,she always had some in in her pantry,said it was a tonic and did you good...now I know why! As you don't eat a lot of it at once I shan't worry too much!