Natural Treatment - where to start

[Andyt36]

Hi All, I have what has been called Paroxysmal AF. Pill in pocket Bioporsol and flecanide.

I want to research more natural approaches and maybe go to see a natural specialist but not sure where to start, any tips.

I am in north london.

Thanks

A

[CDreamer]

Depends what you want to achieve? PAF can be progressive or it can be a one off event, and everything in between.

The 'natural' approach would be to focus on lifestyle changes i.e.:- daily, moderate exercise, mainly plant based diet and meditation/relaxation, alcohol consumption. Treating any known underlying cause of AF - such as thyroid dysfunction is a first line treatment so ensuring your GP has done a thyroid test.

Many people find taking a Magnesium compound helps to prevent AF, keeping your electrolytes in balance and preventing stress building up, good sleep patterns and treating any known sleep apnea are all things to look at. There is no one simple answer.

There is no known herbal or 'natural' supplement which will stop AF, but just because you have the PIP doesn't mean you need to use them if you can tolerate a short episode of AF and don't feel unwell.

The big danger with PAF is the higher risk of having a stroke and therefor most people take an anticoagulant to lower the risk, apart from that all meds are for improving your quality of life.

I and many other, found that Bisoprolol definitely decreased my quality of life making me lethargic and breathless so I didn't take it but I did take Flec as a PIP for about 6 years as I felt very ill during episode as my BP would drop dramatically and episodes would last 24-36 hours.

Best wishes CD

[CDreamer]

PS - i should add that some people find that certain Vagal maneuvers stop an episode, some exercising triggers AF, whilst for others it will stop an episode. Others find resting stops an episode. Really is a morgel condition.

You can drive yourself slightly obsessive trying to find a 'cure' or triggers, said as one who trod your path for some 9-10 years.

Go to the AFA main website and read all of the information, know your enemy is a good start.

[Andyt36 in reply to CDreamer]

Thank you, your feedback us very useful.

[rosyG in reply to Andyt36]

Hi Andy

I found that on the three occasions I had to go to A and E when PAF was very bad my potassium was below range ( normal usually- I'd had other blood tests in between,) I started taking more high potassium foods and a cardiologist advised magnesium when I mentioned what Iwas doing, as one needs to keep calcium/magnesium and potassium in balance. ( Potassium supplements can be dangerous- should only increase via food)

Since then, ( 2 and a half years) I haven't had any more AF so I think CDreamers advice above is correct and you'd do well to follow it !!

[Andyt36 in reply to rosyG]

Thank you RosyG

[Andyt36 in reply to CDreamer]

Hi CDreamer just to confirm are you referring to this site afa.org.uk or the healthunlocked site?

[PeterWh in reply to Andyt36]

Yes that is the site CDreamer was referring to.

[fallingtopieces]

When I was diagnosed with paroxysmal AF in 2012 I was also given pip flecainide, but still I'm yet to take one.

I did extensive research at the time, like we all have, and came across a US website called 'AFibbers' where I discovered lots of interesting info, case histories and most importantly the benefit of supplements. I recommend you take a look yourself and read as much as you can there.

I now take a number of supplements daily, magnesium being the main one, and credit them with keeping AF at bay. I've done this since 2012.

I thought I would be interested in consulting a naturopath too but as I'm stable and with no AF now, I'm not going to rock the boat yet.

I also decided to keep alcohol to one drink only. That can be one every day at times, one a week or none some weeks. Ive no reason to think my heart reacts badly to alcohol, I just think it's not worth the risk anymore.

Another tip is to buy yourself a 'Kardia' ECG monitor for your phone. Then if you have any doubts as to what your heart is doing, you can know for sure and have it on record. I find mine invaluable.

Pat.

[expences in reply to fallingtopieces]

Are you taking anticoagulants?

[Andyt36 in reply to expences]

No not on anticoagulants, Ep did not mention, as I am 46 and everything else is ok

[fallingtopieces in reply to Andyt36]

Andy, I'm not on anticoagulants either as I'm deemed too young too(57 on Monday) The risks are supposed to outweigh the benefits at our age.

I do take nattokinase though, which is recommended on Afibbers.

Pat

[Andyt36 in reply to fallingtopieces]

Thanks Pat I had a quick read on Wikepedia and see that it is a blood thinner. What prompted you to take it and do you see any negatives?

Thanks

Andy

[fallingtopieces in reply to Andyt36]

Andy, I don't notice anything in taking Natto, no positives, no negatives. I just hope it's doing it's thing quietly in the background. I also read on the Afibbers site somewhere, to take another dose if you do go into AF.

I won't bore you with the list of all my other supplements but added up they cost me ~£75 a month!

Pat

[Andyt36 in reply to fallingtopieces]

To the contrary the more information the better. As long as you are ok with sharing.

Thanks

[fallingtopieces in reply to Andyt36]

Here goes;

Magnesium citrate

Taurine

Vits B, C & D

Nattokinase

Probiotic

Hawthorn

Omega 3

Potassium

Co Q10

Celery seed

Turmeric

(The last 2 are for my arthritic right hip 😕)

Pat

[Andyt36 in reply to fallingtopieces]

Thanks PAT at some point I will be asking but I believe I get the logic. Have you found they have helped?

[fallingtopieces in reply to Andyt36]

Andy I'm 100% sure they are making a positive difference to my heart rhythm. Apart from the almost instant 'feel good' calm feeling I know I get from the magnesium, which ones make a difference and which ones don't I can't really tell.

I certainly sleep better too.

Pat

[Andyt36 in reply to fallingtopieces]

I guess once you start on vitamins etc, you cannot stop. I am glad they are working 4. U

[rosyG in reply to fallingtopieces]

Do you ask your GP? I am given Magnesium on prescription

[Andyt36 in reply to rosyG]

No haven't added but will do, trying to compile information firstly.

[fallingtopieces in reply to rosyG]

To be honest Rosy, I don't go to my GP, unless I'm desperate and know I need antibiotics or a blood test etc. I have no faith in mine unfortunately.

Pat

[MarkS in reply to fallingtopieces]

I followed afibbers as well for many years. I tried all the supplements listed on and they made absolutely no difference! Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's necessarily going to be better for you, there are lots of natural poisons out there!

[Andyt36 in reply to MarkS]

I guess one of the poisons is the mind as well which does not help

[Andyt36 in reply to fallingtopieces]

Thanks pat

[kenlynkirk in reply to fallingtopieces]

how much magnesium is needed ? thnak you

[fallingtopieces in reply to kenlynkirk]

I take 800mg a day, occasionally more. Some people take a lot more than that.

The amount is determined by gradually increasing from 400mg daily, to an amount that falls just short of making your bowels uncomfortably loose.

Pat

[rosyG in reply to kenlynkirk]

My GP prescribes 200mg of Magnesium Citrate a day for me.

[CTG99]

I use a form of Japanese osteopathy called Amatsu to keep my body in balance generally and avoid the pressures of tight muscles and ligaments pulling on the heart but have found the cranial aspects of the treatment to be particularly useful for my AF. I'm on daily Flecainide and Tildiem Retard (didn't get on with Bisoprolol ) and between it all AF is largely kept at bay. I tried Magnesium - not for me - but use a multi vit, CoQ10, flaxseed oil and vitamin C as recommended by a naturopath.

Caroline

[Andyt36 in reply to CTG99]

Thanks Caroline Amatsu sounds interesting are u in the Uk?

[CTG99 in reply to Andyt36]

Hi Andy,

Yes, I'm in South Wales but there are practitioners around the country. Bowen Therapy works in a similar way if you can't find Amatsu.

My AF episodes do seem to be related to the general state of my body. I had my first episode in a few months last week after carrying a heavy laptop rucksack around London, together with a suitcase. I could feel my neck and back were stiff and that was probably what irritated the vagal nerve. Rucksack has been purged!

Caroline

[Andyt36 in reply to CTG99]

Caroline thank you very much. I am now between Greece and London, very stressful lifestyle (even though Greece as a destination is great), so trying to balance medical intervention with lifestyle changes and management. Thanks again.

[Gracey23]

I've been on a ten year journey with PAF and have found that losing weight is most important. I gave up processed foods, take vitamin D, vitamin B and drink a protein shake for breakfast with other vitamins and minerals. I also drink sparkling mineral water.

I'm feeling so much better for doing these simple things. I'm still taking Flecanaide everyday but have halved the dosage over the last six months. Keep asking your questions because knowledge is power as Bob has said many times on this forum, Best health, Gracey

[Dodie117]

Check out posts by SRMgrandma on here. She is a volunteer for this site, a nurse in US with AF and has a lot to say on lifestyle changes.

[Hidden]

Plenty of good advice already from some of the best contributors to this Forum. I thought it prudent to see a London Naturopath as well as the medics and he put me on a Magnesium compound (incl Potassium & Taurine) and to balance that CoQ10. In my case the Vagus Nerve is a principal actor and if you are the same it is important to realise you need to work on your head (relaxation/breathing exercises) and your gut (reduce substantially sugar, gluten & processed foods) - don't expect any support from your cardiologist/EP at best they will give you a patronising look unless you have a very rare one; they do exist but not in the Guildford area to my knowledge.

Don't be complacent because it's Paroxysmal, take early comprehensive action to snuff it out!

[Andyt36 in reply to Hidden]

Orchard worker thank you, if you have a naturopath to recommend in London could you forward details?

[Hidden in reply to Andyt36]

I found philipweeks.co.uk helpful.

[Trish5]

Hello Andy, I take Magnesium and Hawthorn Berry and Krill oil because I can't take blood thinners. So far it's working and I take Flecainide as PIP. I'm 62 and my EP said I don't need a blood thinner YET as I'm a 0 on the chads. The Krill oil thins the blood a little but nowhere near a proper blood thinner. My problem is that once I reach 65 my score goes up to a 2, because it's not safe for me to take a blood thinner, I'll have to look into another option.

[Andyt36]

Hi Trish5, thanks for your reply. Interesting Hawthorn Berry comes up quite a bit I see. Out of interest since you have a PIP I am guessing you are not in permanent AF. Also how often do your AF episodes occur? Thanks for your input.

Andy

[Andyt36]

Thanks all for your responses here