Lymph Node Irradiation for a Potential Cure

[TuffNuttoCrack]

I have read that some men have been cured from earlier posts that I have read. Currently I have been on abiraterone and Lupron for 21 months. I only had one docetaxel, before catching pneumonia, so chemo was halted by my oncologist, stating the chemo would kill me before the cancer.

The one chemo and abiraterone and Lupron shrunk the lymph nodes by 75 percent over time. The lymph nodes affected are a distal left iliac measuring about 1 cm, left pelvic sidewall 2 by 1 cm, another left pelvic sidewall 1.5 by 1 cm, and a para aortic lymph node 0.7 cm. I did have a pelvic lesion but it is now considered to be treated.

In talking with a radiation dosimeter specialist from a state medical university center, he said they irradiate lymph nodes all the time, takes four to six weeks of treatment.

I would like to know from those who have been cured if there is a possibility for a case like mine to have a plan of care that would involve irradiation of the lymph nodes and prostate surgery or proton radiation. When I approached my oncologist last with this idea, my understanding was that it couldn't be done due to my cancer being high volume. I hope something has changed due to the bone being "treated". I got to tell you there are days like today for example, I just go into total exhaustion early from doing the simplest thing like patching some stucco trim in the heat.

Thank you

[Tall_Allen]

As far as we know, cure is impossible once there are bone metastases. It does not matter that the bone met is now undetectable. There are many smaller ones that are below the limits of detection by imaging.

[TuffNuttoCrack in reply to Tall_Allen]

I see, thanks for your insight, Tall_Allen. We will just have to pray that nothing else shows up. Thank you.

[TuffNuttoCrack in reply to Tall_Allen]

youtube.com/watch?v=04crGGf...(Not working as expected?) Do you have an opinion about their work as far as presenting information about Advanced Prostate Cancer.

[Tall_Allen in reply to TuffNuttoCrack]

I don't think there is any info worth a patient seeing in a youtube video. I don't look at them. If a doctor has something worth publishing, it will be accepted in a legitimate peer-reviewed publication.

[Retireddoc]

Statistics about long term remission or even "cure" lag current treatment. When trials are conducted and the results are obtained, the treatments utilized are years old. The long term remission rate for current aggressive treatment for oligo metastatic prostate cancer is not yet known as enough time has not elapsed.

Knowledgeable, aggressive Medical Oncologists at COE are treating low volume metastatic disease with triple therapy (chemo, ADT and anti androgen receptor drug) plus either RP (to remove primary tumor and its interaction with distant metastases) or prostate RT plus MDT (radiation to know bone/LN mets) plus pelvic radiation.

There has not been enough time elapsed since beginning this more aggressive treatment to know if a percent of patients will have long term remission or even cure. There is evidence in the literature that radiation of metastases stimulates the immune system to attack micro metastasis. Early reports from Johns Hopkins regarding Total Eradication Therapy (TET) are encouraging.

Tall Allen is right; if you have one or a few bone metastases there are more micrometastatses lurking elsewhere below the level of Imaging detection, even with PSMA PET.

But, if you continue to treat any bone/LN mets with radiation as they arise (whack a mole) you can prolong survival. How long? Nobody knows.

[Mascouche in reply to Retireddoc]

I was not familiar with TET. Thanks for bringing that up. Found these articlse about it: bmccancer.biomedcentral.com...

link.springer.com/article/1...

nature.com/articles/d41586-...

umms.org/health-services/ca...

[vintage42]

"... they irradiate lymph nodes all the time, takes four to six weeks of treatment. I would like to know from those who have been cured..."

After biochemical recurrence and a scan found cancer in one node, I had six weeks of IMRT to the pelvic lymph nodes with focus on that one. It was not presented as a cure. The RO said it would treat the one node and tamp down undetected cancer in the rest of the pelvic nodes. The MO said it might hold off mets for a year or two.

[cigafred]

Many years ago I had 8 nodes (para-aortic and common iliac, 4 to 9 mm) irradiated. Did not seem to make much difference. On the other hand, after taking a boat-load of supplements, I then got down to undetectable for a number of years while on first line ADT. Only the last few months have I had PSA readings of .02 and .03. No idea of the radiation helped. More details in my bio.

[TuffNuttoCrack in reply to cigafred]

its good to meet another Fred except under these circumstances. Thanks for your information. Also for anyone who wants to know effects of being without abiraterone more than a day; I went 16 days without as they won't let you have it in the hospital. So tomorrow we will hope the PSA is less than the reported detection limit of 0.1. When I first started treatment my PSA was very low for my extremely aggressive cancer at 2.4. With Lupron and abiraterone it went to less than 0.1 in a couple of months after diagnosis.

[NanoMRI]

Salvage extended pelvic lymph node dissection with frozen section pathology method was my choice to remove remaining tumor burden identified by imaging; was NED in bones. Six cancerous nodes including common iliac and para-aortic confirmed. That was over six years ago. All the best!

[TuffNuttoCrack in reply to NanoMRI]

Thank you for adding hope! At least you have proven its feasible depending on the oncologist. I sent them a note regarding the lymph node irradiation during the 16 days I was in the hospital. My wife and I may get answers tomorrow.

[NanoMRI in reply to TuffNuttoCrack]

Hope with a bit of 'science' behind it has served me well; so far. My lymph node surgery did not have the support of oncologist - several I consulted with held to common practice of ADT (STAMPEDE trial). It took some looking to find urologist to support the surgery.  

[Still_in_shock in reply to NanoMRI]

We know!!! But many if not most can not afford to fly to EU for that,

[NanoMRI in reply to Still_in_shock]

I certainly appreciate money is a consideration. I came to learn Mayo Clinic here in US offers this procedure - would still require travel for most. Regarding costs, health care in much of Europe is quite (shockingly) less as compared to US; I have had two surgeries and multiple imaging methods done. I lived and worked there at the time of my diagnosis so I had a better understanding of it all. That said, I save for rainy days and have always lived below my means to have funds for the rainy days. My multiple treatments in Europe, inclusive of all costs, well below the cost of say a fancy retirement vehicle (no Corvette for me). All the best to all of us!

[TuffNuttoCrack in reply to NanoMRI]

How do you get into Mayo without your oncologist referral? Also, the procedure as I understand it is done by University of Florida routinely.

[NanoMRI in reply to TuffNuttoCrack]

I know several men who have approached Mayo directly, and been accepted - I have not so I have no personal experience with Mayo. Did a brief search on UoF, did not find any information on this procedure. This is what Mayo has - mayoclinic.org/departments-....

[Mgtd]

No studies to add to support this but my RO suggested that we treat the pelvic area with radiation while doing the prostrate. This was really to possibly get to small amounts not visible. Honestly sounded like reasonable approach.

Did it work? Only time will tell and I got two procedures for the price of one. How many ROs do you know that offer BOGO?

[TuffNuttoCrack in reply to Mgtd]

Again another piece of good information to present to my oncologist. From what I have been reading is that even though a spot has been "treated" the bone lies dormant for a while and then it may flare up again. Thats why I honestly found Tall_Allen's information devastating when you see the morbidity statistics of those with bone cancer, but you call em as the science presents. Still I have faith for a cure. Thank you.

[NanoMRI in reply to TuffNuttoCrack]

the stat's were against my chosen method, but then, they are just stats that need careful, broad understanding. As individuals and strong self-advocates we can make our own stats.

[j-o-h-n]

When you have some free time and you're not exhausted.......I have some stucco trim that needs painting. Free can of coke.........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[TuffNuttoCrack in reply to j-o-h-n]

Stucco mix yesterday, painted-today …you’d never know unless you looked for it. We have stucco guys working in neighborhood but I’d have to walk a mile to get somebody for a 50 buck repair but I had already bought the mix from the inter-not!

Stucco Repair

[TuffNuttoCrack in reply to j-o-h-n]

John I had to lay the surface back and expose the styrofoam and use a special styrofoam glue caulk to glue the two styrofoam surfaces together that had been damaged. I know you are really into this!

[j-o-h-n]

You convinced me, I think I'm gonna move............

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[TuffNuttoCrack in reply to j-o-h-n]

John, my next job is to fix the vehicle she used to irradiate our stucco trim on our tight garage opening. The body shop quote was $2200, so I am going to piddle with some dealer touch up paint in a few days. Time to do some tedious work to see if can improve it, hopefully avoid messing it up much further. My wife is a good lady, I didn't even get mad which in times past I would have likely lost my temper. Life is too short as we know with this disease; we all make mistakes although I wish she hadn't tried to get into the garage by driving front end first! Sure move on down here to Texas where there is no power on the Gulf Coast! 2.2 million customers out of 2.8million without power initially and about 700,000 still don't have it as of Saturday July 13th, 2024.

Car damage

[j-o-h-n]

Elbow grease with a touch of Turtlewax Scratch Repair and Renew Wax on a sponge wiping in circular motions (wiping off each scratch with an old towel).. I've done it a few times and looked fairly good. Yiddle by Yiddle.....

Good idea not to confront the boss....Just lock yourself in your garage and yell your lungs off to let off all the rage.

No power? Just get each one of those illegals The HR Bank which is a minimalistic stationary bike with a slim, rectangular body that acts as a portable battery for energy storage. The device transforms peddling movements into kinetic energy, and it can also store solar power, as well as electricity from the grid. During lunch breaks they can mow your lawn and water your plants...Up here we use those illegals to give us the opportunity of being mugged.

Take care, report the car stolen, and do a double collecting act............ Get the Insurance money and still have a car.............Ah life is Grand.....(grand theft auto)....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n