Positive effect of diet on the whole PCa / APCa spectrum

[Derf4223]

urologytimes.com/view/plant...

+lots of exercise

[MrG68]

Thing is, if people want to go vegetarian, vegan go for it. What I will say though, is I've yet to see any convincing evidence that meat it detrimental.

The link fits that category. She writes:

In fact, processed meat is considered a Group 1 carcinogen by the World Health Organization (the same category as asbestos, arsenic, and smoking!), whereas red meats such as pork, beef, and lamb are considered Group 2a carcinogens (the same category as lead and mustard gas!).

I mean, TBH you shouldn't be eating processed meats. But the same as asbestos? Really? Also red meat is the same category as lead and mustard gas? Does anyone really believe that?

Also, she writes:

By analyzing data from more than 47,000 participants in the Health Professionals Follow-up Study, we found that those who consumed more plant-based food had a 19% lower risk of fatal prostate cancer; the association was stronger for men younger than 65 years.

If you check that reference out, its questionnaire type study. Basically its useless - scientifically.

For example, data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey showed that men who primarily consumed healthy, plant-based food were 53% less likely to have an elevated prostate-specific antigen (PSA) level.2

If you check that reference out, its yet another database search and questionnaire type study.

In fact all the ones I checked are database and/or questionnaires used as 'evidence'. Can anyone remember what they ate for breakfast 3 days ago?

It's not something I would personally be making any decisions on.

Edit: Exercise though? Yep - everything to gain, nothing to lose. I like that a lot.

[Derf4223]

Speaking for myself, my zero T status due to doublet therapy means I have a wicked case of metabolic syndrome. Surviving therapy with a minimum of accrued extra body damage is my goal.

[MrG68 in reply to Derf4223]

Yeah, I've seen a lot of the literature linking metabolic syndrome to meat. I haven't looked too much into it, but there's a lot of database queries and that type of 'study' which I just discard.

The thing that puzzles me is carb type diets will raise your blood sugar, have high insulin and have the potential to store abdominal fat. Excess glucose can be toxic, so the body likes to deal with it quickly and store it.

It's my experience that a carnivore diet will do the opposite. As for blood pressure, that's a tough one for me to measure because I've always had very low blood pressure. People are different though and can react differently.

One thing I would consider though is to do either a plant based diet with little fat, or a meat based with high fat. If you mix the two, you get the Randel Cycle effect. Basically when fat gets metabolized, it locks out the glucose and vice versa. If you metabolize the fat, the glucose will be stored as fat. You'll potentially get high insulin.

sciencedirect.com/topics/bi....

However, from what I've read, I believe it depends on how metabolically flexible you are to what extent it applies.

[dhccpa in reply to MrG68]

I'm on the whole food plant based diet, five years now. I've never seen where carbs unrefined whole foods raise glucose, including fruits in large quantities. But people use "carbs" loosely.

Weight loss and lowering BP have been the two main benefits over the years. Down 50 lbs. and off BP meds. Glucose down 10-15 points, cholesterol and triglycerides better all around.

However, each person has to do what works.

[MrG68 in reply to dhccpa]

Yep, people are different. I think it depends on what you eat. Carbs metabolize into glucose. The fiber is undigestible and gets pooped out.

If you eat low fiber carbs you'll get an insulin response because too much glucose can be toxic and your body will store it.

Got no issues with people doing plant based. Whatever works is the right diet IMO.

The thing to be careful of though is eating fat with the carbs because of the Randel cycle. If the fat gets metabolized first it will lock out the use of glucose. You could get a high insulin response because your body needs to store it away.

I was pointing this out because it's some of the hallmarks of metabolic syndrome, which is what he said he had.

I'm doing carnivore, but have to force some carbs in there because I lose weight too easily.

IMO, from what ive read, you should pick either plant based or meat based. I can eat steak amd butter every day - forever! Might be tough for some people though. 😀

[street-air]

A year ago I discovered GL 4+5, capsular invasion ,svi — all the most awful markers except for mets. this after 20 years of sedentary lifestyle and probably too much convenient food: pizza bacon egg sandwiches ice cream etc. also .. I boasted the start of diabetes type 2, fatty liver, and was 35 lbs over my best adult weight.

RP followed and confirmed the nasty tumor though lymphs removed were clear.

At diagnosis started exercise and med diet cut out all meat just because I found it easier than worrying about this meat ok, that meat not. Also started training (running) heavily.

Last week ran half marathon in 2 hours, not super but a decent time for 60, I think. weight back to best it has ever been. Also doing yoga, and some lifting.

Today I got the 4th regular post rp psa check. SUPER STRESSFUL. After RP they have been 0.01, <0.01, 0.01 and now 0.01 again. four more are scheduled for year 2. Also my lipids are now low, blood pressure is fine, fatty liver clearing up, blood pressure normal and hba1c normal. tst is 350.

I still think my odds are not great over 5 or 10 years however I like to think that my choice of physical fitness and diet has my finger lightly on the scale, and is giving the cancerous bastard cells still alive slightly more difficulty than if I continued to lay around doom scrolling and eating poorly.

As a male the 20s and 30s are very poor training for what you should do as you get older. You can do whatever with no apparent ill effects. 2 cokes a work day. half of a pizza in one sitting. ham and sausages, fried food, macdonalds. get drunk. You will still look clear skinned and a little exercise still goes a long way. But it probably accumulates subtle damage, and also leaves you, at 50, with ingrained habits that become much more problematic.

My dad got pc, but at a much older age. He was more healthy than I was. Perhaps I got it sooner because the borderline metabolic syndrome I was cooking up plus unhealthy diet was fertile ground for a cancer.

[clayfin]

As I have commented many times our disease was caused my millions of interactions within our body and between our body and our environment - cutting out a specific food group will have very little effect on the disease - I have yet to see a gold standard trial that proves any link between Pca and diet, they simply do not exist, for the obvious reason.

Everything in moderation and plenty of exercise is the key to a better quality of life - there is no reason to go to extremes.

[dhccpa in reply to clayfin]

What's your general exercise routine daily/weekly?

[clayfin in reply to dhccpa]

I do CrossFit 3 times per week every second day, in between I cycle 40 miles two days on the road with one day on the mountain bike, high intensity aerobics three times a week on the cycling days and 1 hour hot yoga three times a week on the CrossFit days. I listen to my body and will miss/scale a CrossFit workout if it has a high volume workout - I will change from hot yoga to regular, less intense yoga if the CrossFit is high intensity.

I use the sauna and cold bath for recovery and have a massage once a week, alternating between sports and Swedish massage.

Basically moving weights and my body in constantly varying ways about 14 to 16 hours a week spread out between the morning and the afternoon.

To prevent over use injuries I use periodization and have specific goals at various times in the year. In winter for example, although mild here in South Africa, I will road cycle a lot less - more on the mountain bike - so will do more in the gym and CrossFit to build strength. In spring I will start cycling again so will drop the gym sessions. I always do the cardio sessions for the anti-ageing benefits.

Supporting this is my diet which is varied but weighted towards flesh protein, mainly beef and chicken but also fish, pork and lamb and lots of healthy fats such as tree nuts and avocado’s - I don’t deprive myself of any food types, including alcohol in moderation.

I try to get at least 8 hours or more sleep each night and am not averse to taking a short afternoon nap when needed.

I have been on TRT for the last 4 years and it does wonders for recovery, sleep, mood and many other things.

[j-o-h-n in reply to clayfin]

Hello clayfin, Are you married?

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[clayfin in reply to j-o-h-n]

Yes - have been for 43 years - wife fully supportive in all I do, as I am of her.

[j-o-h-n in reply to clayfin]

Good wife, no strife good life........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[j-o-h-n]

Remember..........Best exercise is chewing...........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n